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Roll Sizing - A new way to re-size brass cases

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by rfwobbly, Apr 30, 2020.

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  1. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    This is really interesting development you might like to know about. If you are a professional ammo reloader or simply a high-volume competitive shooter who needs to insure that all your cartridge cases have been brought back to factory dimensions, totally eliminating case head enlargements or bulges from being shot in unsupported chambers, then you may be interested in a Roll Sizer.

    Case rolling works by rotating the cartridge case between 2 massive steel dies. The gap between these 2 mandrills gets successively smaller, which effectively "irons out" every blemish in the softer brass as the case rolls its way to the exit. But by coming at the case from the side (rather than from the top as in traditional case Sizing), the Case Roller is able to resize the case over 100% of its full length.




    This process doesn't eliminate the need for traditional Sizing, it simply removes the abnormalities from the brass so that each case is effectively the same size before entering the standard Sizing Die.

    More info at: https://www.rollsizer.com/
    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
  2. mcb

    mcb Member

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    That is not new technology but that is the most affordable roll sizer I have seen. Especially the manual version.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  3. Toprudder
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    Toprudder Contributing Member

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    You are correct that it does not eliminate the need for traditional sizing. But I have to disagree about the 100% statement. In the video, it is clear that the top of the case extends past the top of the sizer, so it does not come close to the case mouth at all. A minor point, really. As he states in the video, it sizes the bottom ~ 1/3 of the case.

    It is a neat gadget, and I wouldn't mind having one, but I don't have enough situations where a simple bulge buster kit from Lee won't suffice.
     
  4. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I have used a friend Case Pro-100. A Case Pro-100 will roll size the entire length of a straight wall case. It's a linear configuration (rolling the case between two plates) but a little bit more expensive.
     
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  5. Toprudder
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    Toprudder Contributing Member

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    Call me skeptical, I don't see how it would be possible to accurately size a thin walled case by rolling it between two plates. Seems to me the case walls would flex too much.
     
  6. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Bar stock might be more accurate descriptor of the flat dies than plates. The Case Pro-100 is a pretty stout chunk of steel.

    DSC02110.jpg
    This is a case about to be rolled in a Case Pro-100. Notice the thickness of the two dies the case is in contact with and then how massive the rest of the frame that supports those two plates is. Brass is soft, steel is not.
     
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  7. 375supermag

    375supermag Member

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    Hi...
    Pretty neat gadget that would probably be useful for a very high volume shooter.
    I only shoot a few thousand rounds as month and the standard resizing dies work just fine for everything with the exception of range pickup .40S&W brass.

    I just ran a few thousand through my Redding GRx die a few weeks ago and it really didn't take long to do it.

    I reload .40S&W on my Hornady LnL progressive press and my reloads run without problems in two different pistols neither of which has an unsupported barrel, so I only run range pickup brass through the Redding GRx die.

    Doubt that I will ever need a roll sizer machine but it probably would have utility for a very high volume shooter who shoots several thousand rounds per month through an unsupported barrel.
     
  8. mdi

    mdi Member

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    I have seen similar machines in machine shops used for final sizing round parts (and it is the same principle as roll threaded bolts/screws). Spring back would be no different roll sizing than "conventional" sizing and from a metal working standpoint, roll sizing works the metal less than shoving a tube (case) into a cylindrical swaging die. Wall variations would be the same and produce similar results with either type of sizing. For my reloading I don't have enough brass needing sizing nor do I have the extra cash for roll sizing equipment (just like an auto everything progressive press, it just don't fit my lifestyle)...
     
  9. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Comes down to the malleability of cartridge brass.
     
  10. Toprudder
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    Toprudder Contributing Member

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    I wasn't talking about the roll sizer flexing, I was talking about the brass case wall flexing while being rolled, much like a tire rolling. Brass will flex and spring back a small amount.

    Are you saying that the roll-sized brass does not need to go through a regular sizing die afterwards?
     
  11. forty_caliber

    forty_caliber Member

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    I looked at both the case pro and the roll sizer options pretty carefully and came close to ordering a case pro. To get a configuration in .308 case pro is less expensive but still in the neighborhood of $2000. I can get most of my resizing work done with traditional dies and have problem cases that won't resize but these amount to less than 10% of them.

    So for $2000 I could "save" these cases from the recycler. I came to the conclusion that it's more cost effective to scrap them for the volume that I need. I can buy lots and lots of cases for $2000.

    I could see that this would be really nice to have in a commercial setting but it's nothing that I can justify for myself although it would be faster and more efficient.

    .40
     
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  12. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Most people still run it through their sizing die also it has to get decaped and that is the easiest way on a progress press but it does not need resized (with a Case Pro-100 not the OP roll sizer). You can feel it in how much easier the press runs. Yes the brass springs back slightly but it springs back slightly after going through traditional sizing dies. That spring back is taken into account when making the sizing dies or roll sizer dies.
     
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  13. Milt1

    Milt1 Member

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    I'm not sure what the benefit is? I've been reloading off and on for over 50 years and I've never had a problem with the bottom third of my cases.
     
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  14. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Roll sizing has beem blamed for some case failures years ago. The process may weaken the case head?? These over loaded rounds found the weak spot.
    223_4.jpg Screenshot_20200430-125757.jpg Screenshot_20200430-130311.jpg 223Rem_20090301_002.jpg

    Fired in a Rem 700
     
  15. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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  16. mcb

    mcb Member

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    The full length included clear to the rim sizing does a few thing traditional sizing does not. They became popular in the USPSA world.

    If you Open gun is tuned up for 38 Super Comp (A rimless version of the semi-rimless 38 Super .385 rim diameter vs .401 rim diameter) and your pool of brass has a bunch of 38 Super mixed in a quick run through the roll size will converts the entire batch to 38 Super Comp externally.

    Guys picking up range brass would get "Glock'ed" 40S&W brass that would have a bulge near the base of the case from the unsupported chamber in Glocks and a few other 40S&W handgun that is hard to remove with traditional sizing dies. A roll sizer removes that very quickly and effectively.

    Shooting 9mm Major tends to loose primer pockets really fast. Roll sizing the entire length of the case might get you a few extra reloads before it would no longer retain a primer.

    I don't think anyone is currently making roll sizing dies for 450 Bushmaster but roll sizing 450 Bushmaster would extend case life. The rebated case head expands with each firing making the cases shorter and shorter with each firing. This eventually makes a 450 BM case unusable by being too short to head space correctly before any other cause renders the case unusable. Not many shoot enough 450 BM to justify the cost though.
     
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  17. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    IMHO, because one still needs to de-cap brass, for the majority of reloaders, I don't see the advantage. It's not really saving any steps, but is actually adding one, if you de-cap when you resize. When I priced a manual model, for the sizer and the dies needed for one caliber, it was $700 before shipping, tariffs and duties. That was for 1 caliber. Just to resize. If I was rich and wanted to impress my friends, I'd probably get a powered one, but then again, iffin my pockets were that deep, I'd probably just buy my ammo.........
     
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  18. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Agreed it has some fairly niche uses for sure. Most reloaders cannot justify the cost for the benefit. A few can, and it does some unique things for those users as mentioned in my previous post.
     
  19. mokin

    mokin Member

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    Like the OP says, if you're into very high volume it might be worth while. That model seems much less expensive than others out there. I've got a long way to go before I could justify something like that.
     
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  20. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Your normal reloading process does not size the entire case, obviously the rim cannot be sized because its in the shell holder/plate.

    Having 100% of your ammunition always function isn't a huge priority to everyone, including me sometimes, so we can skip some steps that we might do if it's more important to us.

    Kind of like people "plunking" rounds in a barrel to make sure they will go in and drop out. That's generally a first step in "double checking" to make sure the rounds are going to run.

    [​IMG]

    Then one winds up with a "mystery" malfunction every now and then because the round "plunked" fine but the pistol failed to go into battery. Never realizing that dropping the round into a barrel doesn't check the one part of the case that cannot be sized by the normal reloading process. So they loose a match by .2 seconds because of a malfunction that could have been caught with a case gauge. As a fellow shooter pointed out to me when the problem round failed the gauge, not unlike this round.

    [​IMG]

    The little ding in the rim passed the "plunk" just fine but failed to correctly enter the breech face.

    [​IMG]

    You spend thousands on equipment to compete, hundreds on match fees and travel to get to them and roll sizing is more like buying insurance than a waste of money. That said, not for everyone for sure, I don't even own them for everything I load, pointless for some firearms and not needed for many others.

    I reloaded for decades without even owning a case gauge, much less roll sizers, so they certainly are not a "must have" but I have likely won a match or two because someone didn't own either.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  21. Milt1

    Milt1 Member

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    Perhaps, perhaps not!
     
  22. DocRock

    DocRock member

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    Or, you could buy firearms that fully support the case in the chamber...
     
  23. mcb

    mcb Member

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    The guys using roll sizer are using them to prep large volumes of brass that likely didn't get fired in their gun. They are picking up large quantities of range brass or buying large quantities of once fired and thus have no idea what it was originally shot in. Roll sizing brings this brass back about as close to unfired condition/specs as is reasonably possible.
     
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  24. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Even a very fully supported barrel starts bulging the base after a few loads when you're talking about 9mm Major. A barrel without good support would just blow out the brass on the first firing!
     
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  25. mdi

    mdi Member

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    The same reason some reloaders like progressive presses; speed and a lot of ammo right now. If a reloader only shot an average of 200 rounds per month getting a roll sizer may be considered silly, just like a lower volume shooter using an auto-everything progressive press...
     
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