Ron Paul Mega-Thread (Mergeness)

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I agree with some of Ron Paul's positions, but he never stood a chance of being elected, and the more votes he gets the better the chances of us having to get used to the sound of the words 'Mrs. President' and 'First Gentleman Bill'. <shudder>

Don't blame Dr. Paul, The Amnesty Bill, Ever increasing War. and First Strike rhetoric will kill any other Republicans chances.
 
Hmmmm peacful non-compliancdoes not equal threats to shoot Marshall's coming to arrest you. But it does appear he made the comment without looking into it first. Good luck trying to back pedal on that one. The neocons around here are already tearing him to shreds.
 
Hmmmm peacful non-compliancdoes not equal threats to shoot Marshall's coming to arrest you.
Maybe you know of something I have not heard. I had not heard any statements about attacking anyone.
They are expecting to defend themselves.
They may(understandably) expect an armed assault.
I have not heard any threats.
 
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes"
That isn't open permission to collect any sort of taxes in any manner they choose. That's why the original income tax was declared unconstitutional, and an amendment had to be passed to make the income tax possible.

--Len.
 
And libertarians attack people who call them anarchists.

And "law & order" republicans get ticked off when they're called fascists in denial.

Most libertarians are indeed not anarchists. Though some (like myself) indeed are anarchists. Mainly because there is no rational argument for any person or group to justify ruling over another. Sorry, but the basis of democracy is just a ludicrous as the "divine right of kings".

The individual anarchist is the ultimate skeptic who takes their skepticism to its logical conclusion.
 
That isn't open permission to collect any sort of taxes in any manner they choose. That's why the original income tax was declared unconstitutional, and an amendment had to be passed to make the income tax possible.

Thus making it constitutional. I don't like it any more than you do but anybody who holds the position that an income tax isn't constitutional isn't on the side of the constitution.
 
Thus making it constitutional.
True. And I pay mine, because I don't want to be anyone's prison wife. But it's unjust, and I can't say I'm sorry to see people engage in nonviolent resistance.

--Len.
 
Ron Paul has already stated, on national television, he would like to dissolve the IRS. So...surprise!

And there seems to be a grand misconception on what the feds use personal income tax for. Hint: it's not for you kid's school or your sidewalk.

It could be gone tomorrow and we'd be FINE.
 
Thus making it constitutional.

Frankly, I stopped arguing from a constitutional standpoint years ago. The .gov has broken that contract so many times it may as well be null and void. Which of course means that the government has no legitimacy beyond their ability to force compliance by force and fraud.

I'd venture a guess that the band of brigands down the road has more legitimacy at this point.
 
Anarchists make me giggle.

If you drive drunk past the end of your driveway, and especially to my street, I'm going to exercise rule over you, I promise.
 
Anarchists make me giggle.

If you drive drunk past the end of your driveway, and especially to my street, I'm going to exercise rule over you, I promise.

And statists, make me laugh, and shake my head at the same time

And you could try. Though considering that I don't drink and drive based on sheer reason, rather than threats, nice strawman, I truely enjoyed setting it ablaze. :rolleyes:

Though I'm sure you can think of another thin and weak "justification" to initiate force against another human being.
 
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/429

MANIPULATING AMERICA'S CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT

If you take time to look closely at how the media promotes their "top" candidates or suddenly begins promoting a new candidate not currently in the running, you'll get a glimpse into how the Powers That Be (PTB) make sure America only gets to vote on candidates selected by them. The PTB have a real problem with the rising popularity of Rep. Ron Paul, the only reliable and principled anti-war and limited government candidate. A significant sector of voters are tired of pro-war Republicans and disgusted with go-along Democrats. In response, the PTB have three controlled candidates waiting in the wings ready to divert attention from any non-controlled candidate: New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Former Senator and actor Fred Thompson, and Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich. Let's see what they're up to.

The Break-out Threat: While the PTB have lots of options within the "top tier" of candidates (Giuliani, McCain, Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama), their main concern now is the possibility that the internet fervor for Ron Paul could break out into the mainstream by making a major showing in one of the Republican primaries. Ron Paul doesn't have to come close to winning a primary to break out. If he even polls 10% in any of the early primaries, the media would suddenly be forced to acknowledge him (and the error of their polling data putting him in the 1-2% range).

Newt Gingrich is pacing the floor waiting to see if he can jump into the ring for president. He's another big ego similar to Bill Clinton, so we haven't seen the last of this wolf in sheep's clothing either. He has had to put a lot of years between his betrayal of conservatives (when as Speaker of the House, he pushed through NAFTA and GAAT), and his wife (in bed with cancer). He knows conservatives have short memories. They forget that Gingrich was a liberal economics professor who came out of no where and launched a "conservative political career" to capture and divert conservative dissatisfaction with Bush I and his New World Order government. He is trying to do it again and hoping Christians have forgotten his previous perfidity.

It seems to be working. Various prominent Christian evangelical leaders have been cultivated by Gingrich and have subsequently praised Gingrich's supposed confession of faith and change, as Gingrich churns out book after book trying to woo the Christian base he betrayed. His book "Rediscovering God in America" is particularly galling for its hypocrisy. Gingrich is also jumping on the anti-Immigration bandwagon, though if elected, he would surely compromise and sign it, just like Bush. He's touting a new "Contract With America" and his website is all geared up for "Winning the Future." This guy has REAL political ambitions and I consider him very dangerous. With all that said, I don't think he's got the nod from the PTB, yet. He's running on his own steam--and positioning himself for the future.

I believe the more probable candidate to divert the Republican disaffected is former Senator and actor Fred Thompson. He is poised to jump into the race and stake down the "far right" vote in order to stop the Ron Paul train. While Thompson's recent positions differ little from the mainstream pack of Republican candidates, I think the PTB are hoping that Thompson's strong (and undeserved) hard line conservative reputation will induce disaffected conservative Republicans to accept him at face value without looking too deep.

The New York Post had a lead story on June 8, claiming that Thompson is polling second to Rudy Giuliani in Florida. While the Post backs Giuliani, it is clear, according to Free Market News Network, that "the Post...is hedging its bets with Rudy Giuliani by bringing Fred Thompson into the fray as a 'principled conservative.' As FMNN has pointed out, Thompson is no such thing.

"While in congress, Thompson, reportedly a good friend of Senator John McCain, (R-AZ) supported two obviously anti-free market bills: the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform act and the Shays-Meehan bill restricting issue ads. He is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, a main think-tank behind the idea of a North American Union that would eventually dissolve borders between Mexico, Canada and the United States to create one big super-nation. Thompson also seems to believe in a robust military presence worldwide and apparently advocates continued US military involvement in Iraq."

As further evidence of Thompson pushing the globalist warmongering agenda, he was in London calling for a blockade of Iran. The PTB set him up to meet with Margaret Thatcher in order to promote his international stature. Parroting the White House Islamo-fascist line, Thompson said that jihadists were trying to bring the West to its knees. Speaking on foreign policy, Thompson kept emphasizing Iran's nuclear ambitions as a key threat to the West. "When the President of Iran shares his nightmare visions before cheering crowds, those are not just a fanatic's version of an empty applause line. The only safe assumption is that he means it," he said. I'll cover Ron Paul's response to this self-righteous nonsense shortly.

The Bloomberg Move: This week billionaire NY Mayor Michael Bloomberg made a strange move by quitting the Republican Party and switching his affiliation to "independent." Why would he do that far from any Mayoral election unless he was positioning himself for a run for the Presidency? I don't think this move has anything to do with killing the Ron Paul fervor, but is designed to syphon off Democratic votes in the general election. Bloomberg is a political chamaeleon who was a lifelong Democrat before he decided to switch to being a Republican in order to get elected in NY.

I think Bloomberg has been tapped to launch an independent campaign in much the same way H Ross Perot did in 1992 to draw votes away from President Herbert W Bush to ensure a Clinton victory. Phone records later showed that Perot's campaign had been in almost daily contact with Clinton's Democratic National Committee. But Perot was a right winger compared to Bloomberg, so I can only presume that Bloomberg will position his campaign to drain votes away from Hillary to ensure another Republican victory. Apparently Bush is so unpopular that he will sink any Republican chances of holding on to the White House UNLESS the alternative is SO BAD (Hillary) and is combined with an independent candidate to syphon off independent votes.

The PTB would hope that a self-financed independent campaign by someone like Bloomberg will also deter Ron Paul from running as an independent (which would draw votes away from the Republican nominee). Paul will remember how they used the split in Perot's organization in a subsequent election to weaken Buchanan's bid. Another big-dollar independent candidacy will simultaneously deter a lot of independent voters from selecting a true Third party movement--which they don't want either.

BLOCKING OF RON PAUL BEGINS IN EARNEST

Ron Paul has been deliberately shunned in the Iowa Republican debates, sponsored by The Iowa Christian Alliance and Iowans for Tax Relief. Thomas E. Woods, Jr. is particularly incensed that an Iowa Tax Relief organization, run by one Edward Failor, would consider Ron Paul "non-credible." Paul has been considered the "taxpayer's best friend" for decades.

"Mr. Failor, you're busted!" He begins. I got to thinking about this Failor character: what kind of person running a 'tax relief' organization would exclude the presidential candidate with - and this is no exaggeration- possibly the best record on taxation in all of American history, someone who favors the abolition of the income tax and the drastic reduction or elimination of nearly all other federal taxes? Should this be the Iowans For a Little Tax Relief, But Not Too Much? I did a little poking around, and it turns out that our Edward Failor was initially a supporter of...George Pataki! And here I was thinking Failor had a hard time pinpointing credible candidates."

The Dailypaul.com website picked up on the suspicion that Failor is only fronting the tax issue to appear conservative. They found out that "Ed Failor Jr. is senior adviser on the McCain Campaign in Iowa! Talk about a conflict of interest! "Not only is he an adviser, but he has donated $1250 to the McCain 2008 campaign on March 31, 2007."

The Iowa Christian Alliance is also lying about their innocence in this scheme to block Paul. Woods comments: "I've received emails from people telling me that the folks at the ICA insist that they had nothing to do with excluding Dr. Paul, and that the blame rests with Ed Failor of Iowans for Tax... But that organization cannot possibly be believed when it innocently claims it has nothing against Ron Paul.

"The ICA has a page on its site that lists all the announced candidates for president. Until yesterday, when I pointed it out on the LRC blog and embarrassed them a bit, there was no Ron Paul. Now look at the list again. Ever heard of Hugh Cort? John Cox? Mark Klein? [the ones that were "non-credible" and excluded from the debate] The people at the ICA evidently have, since there they are on the list. But they apparently hadn't heard of Ron Paul until just yesterday.

"Actually, though, they did know who Ron Paul was. They even used to have him on their list, as this Google cache shows. But then he disappeared. They also used to have a link to Paul's YouTube site, along with those of the other candidates, at the bottom of the page, but that's also been suppressed. So if they thought they could claim that deleting the link to Ron Paul's campaign site was some kind of innocent mistake, that isn't going to work.

"Heck, they even include a list of 'potential' candidates. That list includes Al Sharpton. So Al Sharpton merits inclusion, but Ron Paul does not." Yep, the fix is in! The PTB are blocking attention to Ron Paul's candidacy.

Here's an example of the kind of principled legislation Dr. Paul is sponsoring in Congress. He has introduced theHealth Freedom Protection Act, HR 2117 which protects your right to know the truth about the positive effects natural products can have for you. According to Dr. Paul's office, "The FDA currently restricts truthful information (Called 'health claims') to 'structure function claims'. This means that you are not permitted to hear what scientists or clinical experience have to say about a supplement. Imagine the drug companies not being permitted to tell you what their products could do for you? Do you think they would stand still for that? Well, the FDA applies a totally biased standard to health claims BASED IN SCIENCE to supplements. Dr. Paul says this is unfair and violates your health freedom."

Contrast this with the HR 1561, the dangerous "FDA Revitalization Bill" which was passed by the Senate as S. 1082 gives the FDA even more powers. It also induces the FDA to become more dependent upon the drug industry by establishing a user fee system. From now on much of the FDA budget will be dependent upon producing good results for the drug companies. This will provide even more incentive to push through drug approvals faster than ever in order to earn more fees. The current system is already rife with collusion between the FDA and the drug majors. While the FDA nitpicks every tiny side effect of natural herbs, it routinely approves drugs that have numerous and lethal side affects
 
If you drive drunk past the end of your driveway, and especially to my street, I'm going to exercise rule over you, I promise.
If you understood anarcho-capitalism better, you'd realize that self-defense is fully legitimate within it. In the case you describe, it's the job of the road's owner to decide the rules, and that person might or might not be you. Today, we face all sorts of bad consequences of road socialism: the biggest being that you can't gate your neighborhood and turn drunks away. You have to let everyone drive past your house, without discrimination, because the roads are owned by politicians.

What strawman? Are you seriously arguing that in your anarchist utopia, no one will drive drunk?
The road's owner will forbid drunk driving, and evict them from his property, possibly suspending their road-use privileges entirely. The difference is that he'll handle the problem of unsafe driving more effectively than governments do today, because they ultimately care only about power, not about us, while the road's owner wants people to use his road. And he'll do it in a way that is more humane toward the drunks, because unlike the police he won't be allowed to pepper-spray, taze or shoot people with impunity.

--Len.
 
What strawman? Are you seriously arguing that in your anarchist utopia, no one will drive drunk?

No, as you misassumed that I'm utopian in any regards. My position is that if the government was the cure for any particular ill, it is indeed arguable that the "cure" is worse than the "disease".

Though despite my rational dissapproval on the matter of driving (or shooting) while intoxicated, I seriously doubt it's a major issue as drunken driving has declined to an all time low, and been there since the mid-1980s. Though the apparent interest by the self-styled authorities is understandable...

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.” - H. L. Mencken.
 
Many conservatives and libertarians expressed outrage at the govt's actions against the Branch Davidians and against Randy Weaver. Let's face it the Davidians were not exactly mainstream angels and Randy Weaver was a White Separatist and arguably a racist. A principled conservative/constitutionalist will call them as he sees them and will defend the just cause even if the particular individuals involved are not exemplary.
 
Frankly, I stopped arguing from a constitutional standpoint years ago. The .gov has broken that contract so many times it may as well be null and void. Which of course means that the government has no legitimacy beyond their ability to force compliance by force and fraud.

I'd venture a guess that the band of brigands down the road has more legitimacy at this point.

Because someone decides not to live up to their end of the bargain doesn't give me the freedom to throw my hands in the air and say screw it.

If I agree to abide by the terms of the constitution that means I agree to abide by it. If the time comes to where we start voting from the rooftops so be it, but we are a long way off from that. Till then I'm going to keep my word.
 
Because someone decides not to live up to their end of the bargain doesn't give me the freedom to throw my hands in the air and say screw it.
Technically, yes it does: one party's violation of a contract does release the other party from his obligations. For example, if you sign a contract to buy a new car, and the dealer says, "Screw it," and never gives you the car, you are not bound to make the car payments anyway.

Not that the income tax is the right hill to die on. Most politicians have earned the death penalty for high treason many times over. Try, convict and execute a few of them, and see if it doesn't motivate the others to start keeping up their end of the bargain. That sounds much more interesting than holing up in a compound over a few bucks' income tax.

--Len.
 
The "voting from the rooftops" IS a Constitutional position.
That would be the "We the people" side of the equation, in response to tyranny.
 
1. Who knows what sort of craziness will happen before this is all over in New Hampshire? Ron Paul has now linked himself to whatever does happen. A wise man doesn't link his fate to loose cannons when he doesn't have to.

2. He failed to turn this into an opportunity to campaign. He could have expressed support in the way I wrote above, and used this to the advantage of his campaign. If he becomes President, it will help the people in New Hampshire FAR MORE than his comparing them to Ghandi now.

1. his comments may have protected the browns from the feds killing them. (now the Browns are High profile and The Feds wouldnt kill if eyes are watching)

2. Paul is not Jesse Jackson(thank God)
 
1. his comments may have protected the browns from the feds killing them.

How?

2. Paul is not Jesse Jackson(thank God)

Non-sequitur.

Who has used current events as a backdrop for what he has to offer as a President?

EVERY SINGLE SUCCESSFUL CANDIDATE, EVER.

Jog my memory. I can't remember when Jesse Jackson last won the nomination.:rolleyes:

Look, I like reading Matthew Bracken, too. But this is a Presidential campaign, not a novel.

Ron Paul may make a great President, but he's making damn sure we never find out.
 
Because someone decides not to live up to their end of the bargain doesn't give me the freedom to throw my hands in the air and say screw it.

If I agree to abide by the terms of the constitution that means I agree to abide by it. If the time comes to where we start voting from the rooftops so be it, but we are a long way off from that. Till then I'm going to keep my word.

There is no obligation to follow through on a contract when one party acts in bad faith. By their actions, the .gov is in breach of contract. There's no obligation to continue in honoring your part. By breaching the contract they have rendered it null and void and have brought into question their legitimacy as well as right to exist.
 
Ron Paul in 2008

The immigration reform BS pushed me too far.

I just registered at Ron Paul 2008. Made a contribution. Will try and volunteer.

I just realized that the differnces between me and Congressman Paul were not as far as me and Jorge Bush and his minions, including Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid, and all the other evil ones on the dark side.

Anygun
 
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