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Rude jerk at the range today

Discussion in 'Rallying Point and Range Discussions' started by ID-shooting, Feb 16, 2013.

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  1. rondog

    rondog Member

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    This is one reason I joined a private club with several separate ranges. Any brass you find on a vacant range is fair game, and I'm a terrible brass scrounger. But I would never DREAM of going near another shooter and picking up brass. Even if it was obviously not his, I'd never intrude in someone's space like that.

    I have, on occaision, walked up to see what they were shooting if it sounded odd or looked cool. One guy let me fire his AR-50 three rounds, another was a LEO sighting in his issued M16A2 and was running full-auto bursts through it. Just had to see that. Another guy had an AR15 with a suppressor that sounded really strange, my curiosity drove me to ask what it was, I was surprised it was still that loud when suppressed.

    Passed another range and a guy had a Browning 1919 up on the bench, just going to town with it, but I didn't stop.

    I'll pick up any brass at an empty range, but never when there's someone there. That's just ignorant. I pulled into one range and some feller had picked up all his Greek HXP .30-06 brass, but he left the 18 enbloc clips on the bench for the next guy to have, and that was me!

    And speaking of picking up brass, I have to throw out a shameless plug for the Brass Mower. I got one of those for Christmas, and I'll tell ya, that's the best damn invention ever! It'll pick up .22's to 12 ga. hulls with no problem, I highly recommend them!!! Well worth the money, especially if you're old and fat and have a bad back, like me. http://www.brassmower.com/

    I also bought a "magnet on a stick" from Harbor Freight, and I use that with a bucket to help clean up as many of those damned steel cases from the club ranges as I can. It kills me that people are so cheap they'll shoot that steel Russian garbage by the thousands, and then just leave it lay because it's worthless, or "it'll rust away someday". If YOU are one of those people, PICK UP YOUR TRASH! Don't be "that guy"!
     
  2. powderx

    powderx Member

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    I'm sorry but I wouldn't have walked away feeling hurt and upset. I would have stood my ground for my property. You can't let people get away with that.
     
  3. glennv

    glennv Member

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    You mean you were carrying a loaded gun and didn't shoot this guy with your high capacity magazines and assault weapons? If find this hard to believe the gun in your holster didn't compel an otherwise rational person, like you, to do something irrational.
     
  4. tuj

    tuj Member

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    One of the first things you learn as an NRA Range Safety Officer is not to upset other people with guns. While I agree with you in principle, in this case, the OP did exactly the right thing. It's not worth getting shot over some stupid brass.
     
  5. powderx

    powderx Member

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    I didn't say anything about shooting or provoking shooting. There are ways to be a man that don't involve guns - even when they're nearby.
     
  6. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    If someone asks if you want your brass before picking it up, no problem to me.
    If someone picks up your brass w/o asking, he is brass, w/o the br.

    I don't scrounge left-behind brass unless I am the only one on the line and the brass is truly abandoned.

    If the jerk had such bad manners as to treat your brass as fair game with you still retrieving it yourself, though, the risk of confronting him might not be worth the effort.

    However, I have shot recreationally with ex-military, ex-cop and biker gun enthusiasts who would correct bad attitudes in manners in ways I would not care to witness.
     
  7. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    At the local gun club, the rule at the outdoor ranges is supposed to be, pick up all empties over .22 rimfire because they sometimes become missiles when run over with the lawn mower. Unfortunately, some folks leave their steel casings which may not be reloadable or recyclable, but are still dangerous when tossed by a lawn mower blade.
     
  8. Racinfan83

    Racinfan83 Member

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    I haven't had any issues with brass pickers - but some years ago at a conservation dept public range I had some jerkwad shoot while my kids were downrange posting targets :fire::fire:
    He got off three rounds before I got close enough and loud enough for the idiot to hear me. And I do always open carry a large handgun when I am at a public range. My hand was on it when I got to him. Needless to say I was NOT happy. He started to get blustery and tell me that it was my duty to INFORM him we were downrange??? I was pissed. He had a Marine hat on - and I asked him "didn't they teach you in the Marines to always make sure the range is clear before you shoot"? What an idiot. I was mad beyond belief that someone would not look to make sure the range was clear before firing. He finally thought better of his arguement and apologized. I was just glad that I am a pretty big dude - and that I had my hand on my pistol when I ran up to him. Not sure how that would have gone if I had just went off on him with no backup...
     
  9. ID-shooting

    ID-shooting Member

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    Pickle Butte down the road from the county landfill.

    Normally we just go out to the BLM lands to shoot but the wife had to be to work by 2 so we run over there.
     
  10. PRM

    PRM Member

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    Another affirmation of why I shoot a revolver - my brass rarely hits the ground on a target range unless I want it to.:) Taking it out of my hand, pocket, or ammo box is NOT FAIR GAME!!!
     
  11. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

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    The implication that this is city/suburbian behavior is quite wrong.

    I shoot indoors (bad weather) in Bellevue (WCA). NEVER seen this. In fact, quite the opposite. Good weather I shoot at MRC (private) outdoors, never seen this.

    Just one rude dog. You did the right thing. Good on you.

    If he tried to pick up my 6.8SPC or 10mm he would have pulled back just the broom handle, no broom head. Just saying I would have asked him where he is coming from.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  12. rodinal220

    rodinal220 Member

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    So if you dropped your wallet on the ground he is entitled to it??? My brass my property.I have been to ranges where they say any brass that hits the floor is theirs,SORRY but no.
    If you try to deprive me of my property its a theft,if you commit a theft and use force its a robbery,if you have a folder knife or firearm in sight on your person deadly force has been authorized.
     
  13. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Oh good grief. Not this again.

    Big tough guy's gonna kill someone in a fight over a piece of (deity condemned) brass.

    Sure. Right. That's one of them there "justifiable homicides" right? :rolleyes:

    Hopefully there's no real need to tear through all the ways this macho BS talk is 1) embarrassing, 2) backward of mindset regarding use of force in self-defense, and 3) way off "The High Road."
     
  14. jj1962hemi

    jj1962hemi Member

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    You did the right thing. I never realized this happens. I shoot at a couple of indoor ranges and haven't seen or heard of this. People are nuts, though, and discretion is the better part of valor. The guy that shot at somebody is lucky he didn't "slip on a bar of soap" before the LEOs got there.
     
  15. JRWhit

    JRWhit Member

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    I think you absolutely did the right thing. When I used to frequent a public range I always kept a side arm holstered. There are some odd ones that show up and I've heard countless stories of guns getting stolen while down range. Contrary to popular belief, keeping a side arm holstered, or even being around firearms in such a setting made me a politer person more willing to back away from confrontation rather to engage it. This is not because of weakness. It's because I have an understanding of what an argument might progress to. It's not worth the trouble of engaging a hothead when your armed. If they have displayed enough stupidity as to aggravate a stranger with a gun, I know then to back down, because ultimately I don't want it to escalate to a point of draw over something as simple as a bad range day.
     
  16. XD 45acp

    XD 45acp Member

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    A Ninjy kick and a Judy Chop should have done him in......:D

    Ah, Brass Pirates are everywhere....
     
  17. UniversalFrost

    UniversalFrost Member

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    check your range regs if private (or even some public ranges) ... most ranges you are only allowed to pick up your brass for reuse, after that it is the ranges to utilize. most ranges also require you to pick up your brass (police up your area), but they only allow you to reutilie your brass and dont allow others to just wander around pickup up only brass and not shooting.

    had a similiar incident a few years ago with an old guy at the range (was on a military post) who was shooting (if you can call bringing 1 pistol and shooting 10 shots for an entire morning of shooting) , but mostly was being a brass vulture and picking up all the brass around.. most folks were not saying a thing because he was basically policing up their areas for them... I was the RO for the day and had warned him to ask first before picking it up (we had a policy of you pick up your brass only, but i was loosely enforcing it as I was paying more attention to a bunch of yahoos trying to impress their girlfriends and I wanted to make sure they didnt hurt them selves or somebody around them)....

    anyway my shift was over but i stayed around to shoot some new loads i was working on in my p229 in 357 sig... whent he cease fire was called and i was checking my targets i turned back and noticed the old guy picking up my brass.. i went over and said that I wanted my brass back .. .he started to argue and then i quickly said i reload as well and that was mine... he turned away and i quickly raised my voice and repeated I wanted MY BRASS back and proceeded to get between him and his shooting lane... only at that point did he relent and cough up the brass.... i then kicked him off the range since he was not shooting and gave him a warning for violating the range rules and said that if he had another run in with myself or anyother RO for the next month he would be banned for a year (range rules)...


    anyway, if the vulture in the post by the OP was not shooting then he had no right to even pick up brass unless other shooters allowed him to (and the RO or range allowed it)... i personally would have elevated the issue with the guy and not backed down ... he is taking your stuff and lots of folks are arrogant up to a point when they realize the other party is not backing down.
     
  18. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Weren't his shoes on the ground?
    You could have asked him to give you his shoes in exchange for the few pieces of brass he could scrounge.
     
  19. ID-shooting

    ID-shooting Member

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  20. twice barrel

    twice barrel Member

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    I've recently spent a good deal of cash getting components and there's no way I'd have stood there and let that guy steal from me. I is not "fair game when it hits the ground"; its yours.

    He'll keep doing it until someone stands up to him.

    TB
     
  21. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

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    I would agree whole heartedly but since I've lived in WV one thing I've learned is a lot of people here are used to being bullies and they will do whatever they please unless someone steps up and tell them by no uncertain terms NO. It's not about using force but being forceful in defending the right thing. Some people don't care if you don't like what they are doing because they don't think what they do is any of your business even if what they are doing is stealing from you. I hate to tell you but maybe where you live things are a lot more civil but things aren't the same everywhere. Besides, there is a loooong way between telling someone to back off you property and shooting them over it. That way of thinking belongs to the antis who claim if we carry we will all shoot each other over parking spots. Just because we are at the range armed doesn't mean we are going to shoot it out over every little disagreement.
     
  22. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

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    Most private ranges have written rules. One being to pick up your own bass when your done . Range officials at present to help you under stand them.
    Seems like you just ran into a jerk of the first order.

    Public ranges may be safe but rules many be left open to interpretation.
     
  23. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Only time I've had this happen they were grabbing my 9mm brass, and I said loudly, "Oh, sure, you can have my 9mm brass, I've got lots more at home." Got a nasty glare from the woman grabbing it, but they went on doing it. I also switched to 38 Special.
     
  24. Smokin Gator

    Smokin Gator Member

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    I've run into a couple of guys at shooting matches, who weren't as concerned with shooting the match as much as they were trying to scrounge brass. They usually can't shoot very well at all, but will tell you how many buckets of brass they have in their garage. One guy, who happened to be shooting nickle 38 super brass, initially grabbed my regular 45 acp brass when someone was returning it after picking it up when the stage ended. I was the shooter and told him that it was my brass and he gave it back, pretending that he thought it was his. He laughed as this all happened because everyone, including him, knew there was no way to accidently think it was his. Mark
     
  25. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Certainly, you can and perhaps should take some steps to protect your own interests, (though proactive ones are highly preferred over reactive confrontational ones) but...

    a) The post I was referring to did go right from someone picking up your brass to an inane comment about how "if you have a folder knife or firearm in sight on your person deadly force has been authorized." Words illustrative of blatantly illegal acts, someone searching for excuses to use their gun, and a verbal show of having no concept of appropriate behavior (including for participation here).

    b) Even if you live in the rudest place on earth, you need to have the social skills and street smarts to take you AWAY from violence, not into it. If you find yourself in a "monkey dance" trying to face down some jerk at the range, you're far enough off the right path to be only moments away from using your weapon -- regardless of whether you realize that or not. And "mutual combatants" (folks who argue, scuffle, and fight before going to guns) are not afforded a legal justification if they brandish a weapon or assault or kill someone.
     
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