????'s ABOUT AR15
- Thread starter target1911
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Ok, Its off topic, but
Cerberus Capital is famous for buying companies and building them up, strengthen them financially and then holding them or selling them for a profit. Think of a fixer upper house. They take a business add new management or reinforce the existing structure and then try to bump up their sales. These guys are not the slash and burn types that were popular in the 80’s.
This is from their Investment Philosophy page:
“At Cerberus, we have a long-term investment horizon and focus on value creation. We invest in undervalued companies and their people, and help them to realize their potential. “
Cerberus Capital is famous for buying companies and building them up, strengthen them financially and then holding them or selling them for a profit. Think of a fixer upper house. They take a business add new management or reinforce the existing structure and then try to bump up their sales. These guys are not the slash and burn types that were popular in the 80’s.
This is from their Investment Philosophy page:
“At Cerberus, we have a long-term investment horizon and focus on value creation. We invest in undervalued companies and their people, and help them to realize their potential. “
target1911
Member
The main reason I want a removable carry handle is because after forkin over the money for a nice AR, I wont be able to afford optics for a while......but when I can, all I have to do is remove the handle and install.
ftierson
Member.
Keep in mind that there are other rear sight options that will allow you to keep the sight mounted even when you add the optical sight...
Personally, I really like the RRA stuff. And, to put my money where my mouth is, I just ordered a complete 20 inch chrome-lined A4 (flattop) upper from them (with a delivery date about twelve weeks out given the current demand for their products)...
I also think that the Doublestar/J&T Distributing stuff is really good...
The LMT, CMMG and Stag stuff is top notch as well...
I rate others slightly lower, but still very good...
As a matter of fact, it's quite difficult to find any poor manufacturers of AR stuff right now...
I should also mention that I only shoot M193 type ammo (55gr), which is one of the reasons behind my preference for a 20 inch barrel. After all, speed kills, and longer barrels produce more speed
Forrest
Personally, I really like the RRA stuff. And, to put my money where my mouth is, I just ordered a complete 20 inch chrome-lined A4 (flattop) upper from them (with a delivery date about twelve weeks out given the current demand for their products)...
I also think that the Doublestar/J&T Distributing stuff is really good...
The LMT, CMMG and Stag stuff is top notch as well...
I rate others slightly lower, but still very good...
As a matter of fact, it's quite difficult to find any poor manufacturers of AR stuff right now...
I should also mention that I only shoot M193 type ammo (55gr), which is one of the reasons behind my preference for a 20 inch barrel. After all, speed kills, and longer barrels produce more speed
Forrest
Dallas Jack
Member
I second the Doublestar/J&T Distributing. I bought one complete bull barreled AR from Doublestar and one Car 16" kit from J&T. Both worked very well.
Dallas Jack
Dallas Jack
TimboKhan
Member
It's kind of generic, but I have had nothing but good experiences with Bushmaster, and it is likely that they will get any future AR business I have unless I stumble across a great bargain on something else. I also like that a Marine is in charge of the company now, although that is more of a personal bias than anything else.
On another topic, My roommate had an Olympic for awhile until he sold it to another buddy of ours, and it was and remains a perfectly fine rifle. I have heard some people crack on them, but I have to say my experience was positive.
Also, Navy87Guy, I can't speak for the OP, but I happen to have the same requirements when it comes to removable handle and fixed stock. One boils down to the fact that I like to shoot with traditional AR iron sights, but I also want to be able to take it off and slap a scope on. As far as the fixed stock goes, its really just a personal preference. My SKS has a Tapco T-6, and I have shot plenty of adjustable stocked AR's, but when it comes down to it, I just like the regular old fixed stock. Nothing more than a personal preference, although I guess the fixed stock would be superior for butt-stroking someone.
On another topic, My roommate had an Olympic for awhile until he sold it to another buddy of ours, and it was and remains a perfectly fine rifle. I have heard some people crack on them, but I have to say my experience was positive.
Also, Navy87Guy, I can't speak for the OP, but I happen to have the same requirements when it comes to removable handle and fixed stock. One boils down to the fact that I like to shoot with traditional AR iron sights, but I also want to be able to take it off and slap a scope on. As far as the fixed stock goes, its really just a personal preference. My SKS has a Tapco T-6, and I have shot plenty of adjustable stocked AR's, but when it comes down to it, I just like the regular old fixed stock. Nothing more than a personal preference, although I guess the fixed stock would be superior for butt-stroking someone.
The Grand Pooh-Bah
Member
I hand picked every component on mine and built it. It is a one of a kind built exactly to my specifications. Here is my build page http://www.ar15photos.com/ar15build/ to give you an idea. One of the things I did was set it up to remove all the accessories without any tools needed. I also installed an Ambi Mag Release and Ambi Safety to accommodate left handed users. Such as two of my daughters.
With the Scope, Sling,Forward Grip, Bipod
30 Seconds Later without the Accessories and the iron site in ready.
Needless to say I'm real proud of her.
The best way to learn about the AR15 is to visit forums like this one and ask lots of questions. I learned a lot at AR15.com but have found that gathering info from several locations will give you a better prospective on things. Good luck.
With the Scope, Sling,Forward Grip, Bipod
30 Seconds Later without the Accessories and the iron site in ready.
Needless to say I'm real proud of her.
The best way to learn about the AR15 is to visit forums like this one and ask lots of questions. I learned a lot at AR15.com but have found that gathering info from several locations will give you a better prospective on things. Good luck.
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CD0311
Member
Hey, no one has mentioned Armalite, what's up with that?. That is my favorite one with a close second- Colt. Remember Armalite has been the only one to win Nationals out of the box (2000, USMC SSGT H. Harrison..if I remember right) and my NM A2 shoots in the 190s out to 1000y. It has about 2000 rounds thought it and I have not noticed a decline in my scores.
An Armalite 20" flat top is next for me
An Armalite 20" flat top is next for me
Chuck R.
Member
I looked at a bunch of ARs before settling on my 6920. After doing research these are the 3 I’d take a serious look at:
Colt (Defense, LE series)
LMT
CMMG
As for optics returning to zero:
Here, you really do get what you pay for; good mounts (Spelled L A R U E) will retain zero to about ½ MOA or better when you follow the directions.
My 6920 does double duty as my HD gun with a TriPower and by switching mount/scope and load it serves as my beaver and muskrat control rifle. Both optics maintain their zero.
Chuck
Colt (Defense, LE series)
LMT
CMMG
As for optics returning to zero:
Here, you really do get what you pay for; good mounts (Spelled L A R U E) will retain zero to about ½ MOA or better when you follow the directions.
My 6920 does double duty as my HD gun with a TriPower and by switching mount/scope and load it serves as my beaver and muskrat control rifle. Both optics maintain their zero.
Chuck
ftierson
Member.
By the way, I've already mentioned that I think that most of the AR manufacturers/assemblers are putting out pretty good stuff...
However, you might want to see what is being shot by most of the winners of military style competition (Camp Perry stuff and all..)
I think that you'll find that the answer begins with 'Rock' and ends with 'River Arms"...
For what it's worth...
Forrest
However, you might want to see what is being shot by most of the winners of military style competition (Camp Perry stuff and all..)
I think that you'll find that the answer begins with 'Rock' and ends with 'River Arms"...
For what it's worth...
Forrest
target1911
Member
STILL LOTS OF GREAT INFO......
I am doing my best to take it all in...
So far it seems that RRA is one of the most popular...
And I have heard a lot about DPMS.... along with many others
I will take all of the info and do my best to make a good choice
By The Way... I have seen some GREAT pics of some GREAT rifles.
Thanks to all and keep the info and pics rollin
David
I am doing my best to take it all in...
So far it seems that RRA is one of the most popular...
And I have heard a lot about DPMS.... along with many others
I will take all of the info and do my best to make a good choice
By The Way... I have seen some GREAT pics of some GREAT rifles.
Thanks to all and keep the info and pics rollin
David
Zach S
Member
The second hole, with the screw, is to pre-load the trigger a little bit. SA claims you can get match trigger with mil-spec parts.
Forrest, the top civies at CP are shooting White Oak Precision/White Oak Armament uppers. The military teams vary. The AMU gets parts from the various mil spec contractors and the AMU smithies build all the rifles up from scratch. The USMCR team gets issued Marine armorer rifles, hand built like the AMUs, but are restricted to shooting 77 grain BH ammo in them. No handloads or other ammo, such as BH 600 hard ammo with 80 grain SMKs. The USMCR team has resorted to many of them shooting their own uppers, and a few years ago RRA made them a sweet deal on a bunch. Having pitted with and shot with several USMCR team members the last few years, I have heard no complaints on the RRA uppers.
The AMU sources barrels from 5 or more makers - Krieger, Douglas, Shilen, and a few more. Their armorers barrel up the the uppers themselves.
The All Guard team has rifles built on mil spec receivers. They use Smith Enterprise sights, and I gotta tell ya these things are junk compared to the WOP/WOA setups. They also use (or did use) Jewell triggers, another piece of junk. maybe they switched to another trigger. I'll ask them this weekend assuming they come up and shoot the BCGC 4th matches.
So, while I agree that RRA is an outstanding component and rifle maker, their rifles do not dominate the national matches at the upper echelons of shooting skill. Lots of them on the line. Lots of junior programs using them. Lots of run of the mill civies using them. All with good success.
If they would just come out with a windage adjustable FSB and better headspace control on their chambering operation then their box stock rifle would be stepped up to a top of the line rifle.
before someone chimes in about the "new" bushie NM, all I can say is I'll withhold comment on it until I have one to test for an extended period. The old bushie NM rifle was absolute dog sheite. Chincy rear sight, bad mags, triggers that failed more often than not, feeding problems, lower quality float tubes. The triggers were absolutely the worst on the market. We have a few dozen of them in a clinic/junior program at BCGC. These rifles, particularly the clinic rifles, see very little use. In 2005 we took 7 lowers in to have the triggers fixed/replaced by Bushy at CP. The only RRA trigger failure I experienced was at about 15,000 cycles and the hammer broke, and I dry fire as much or more as I live fire that lower. RRA had me send in the lower and in 7 days including the weekend I had the lower back with a new trigger assy in it, no charge.
Also, you and I both have fingered our share of DPMS rifles that have passed through the shop for repairs or shipped in on transfers. These are by far the roughest looking, poorest fitting upper and lower receivers I have laid eyes on. DPMS = Darned Poorly Made Shinola in my book from hands on with their AR15-based products.
The AMU sources barrels from 5 or more makers - Krieger, Douglas, Shilen, and a few more. Their armorers barrel up the the uppers themselves.
The All Guard team has rifles built on mil spec receivers. They use Smith Enterprise sights, and I gotta tell ya these things are junk compared to the WOP/WOA setups. They also use (or did use) Jewell triggers, another piece of junk. maybe they switched to another trigger. I'll ask them this weekend assuming they come up and shoot the BCGC 4th matches.
So, while I agree that RRA is an outstanding component and rifle maker, their rifles do not dominate the national matches at the upper echelons of shooting skill. Lots of them on the line. Lots of junior programs using them. Lots of run of the mill civies using them. All with good success.
If they would just come out with a windage adjustable FSB and better headspace control on their chambering operation then their box stock rifle would be stepped up to a top of the line rifle.
before someone chimes in about the "new" bushie NM, all I can say is I'll withhold comment on it until I have one to test for an extended period. The old bushie NM rifle was absolute dog sheite. Chincy rear sight, bad mags, triggers that failed more often than not, feeding problems, lower quality float tubes. The triggers were absolutely the worst on the market. We have a few dozen of them in a clinic/junior program at BCGC. These rifles, particularly the clinic rifles, see very little use. In 2005 we took 7 lowers in to have the triggers fixed/replaced by Bushy at CP. The only RRA trigger failure I experienced was at about 15,000 cycles and the hammer broke, and I dry fire as much or more as I live fire that lower. RRA had me send in the lower and in 7 days including the weekend I had the lower back with a new trigger assy in it, no charge.
Also, you and I both have fingered our share of DPMS rifles that have passed through the shop for repairs or shipped in on transfers. These are by far the roughest looking, poorest fitting upper and lower receivers I have laid eyes on. DPMS = Darned Poorly Made Shinola in my book from hands on with their AR15-based products.
ftierson
Member.
Thanks for all the info and 'setting the record straight', Nine...
Especially for what's going on, equipment-wise, at the "upper echelons of shooting skill."
And good luck at the BCGC 4th Matches, although we both know that it isn't just a matter of luck...
But good luck is always good...
Later...
Forrest
Especially for what's going on, equipment-wise, at the "upper echelons of shooting skill."
And good luck at the BCGC 4th Matches, although we both know that it isn't just a matter of luck...
But good luck is always good...
Later...
Forrest
target1911
Member
I havnt heard much about the Olympic Arms line.
I spoted one the other day that is set up pretty much like I want and it was priced at $750 NIB.....flat top..flip up front and rear sights...the fore grip I want...
but I just havnt heard much about them. Are they reliable and how is customer service???
I spoted one the other day that is set up pretty much like I want and it was priced at $750 NIB.....flat top..flip up front and rear sights...the fore grip I want...
but I just havnt heard much about them. Are they reliable and how is customer service???
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