s&w or something else?

[gibson_es]

Hey all. First post here!

i am a gun newbie for the most part i only have three right now. A mossberg 702 plinkster. A mossberg 500a, and a hi point c9 (i know, i know)

Im lookingbto get my concealed weapons soon~ish. I could grt it this weekend, but cant get it and a gun. And though i love the hi point as a truck gun, i wouldnt wanna carry it. I REALLY want a revolver. I feel safer with them vs a semi with one in chamber, and i feel not having one in the chamber is a loss of valuable time when you need it most.

(Please note, its my price range of semi's that i dont trust. Im sure a nice glock or xd is fine)

I can spend around $250 after all is done, i might be able to stretch it a little but doubt full. I know cheap guns are a no-no. And as much as i actually like my hi point, i might consider trading it if i find a $300-$350 gun i really like.

Can i find a good, safe, gun for this price? Im a married collage kid with my first born due in dec. So SAFE is a must. But i want to be able to protect us if need be.


Right now, im looking at this s&w model 10:

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...ndition-s-w/cPath/16_211_431/products_id/3905

But i dont know if its good for conceal carry, if its safe considering its used, ect.

I found a couple new taurus revolvers for a little more, but there .327 and i dont know if want amything smaller the .380 acp. And really like the 257 mag and 38 specials.


Theres also this s&w model 64:

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...ndition-s-w/cPath/16_211_431/products_id/3592

But after ffl fees i think its just a bit out of budget.

I know around here, a ccw is around $180 afterbpaying for classes. and giving the county/state there $112. (Im in hillsborough county florida)

Howbwould you rank these guns as far as weight, durability, reliability, and safety, as well as easy/hard to carry, im thinking IWB but cant say for sure til i try a few different ways.


Any other suggestions? I keep hereing "you can find "insert gun here" used for "insert price here". But cant ever find it when looking, both locally and online. So links are a plus!

Imblooking to purchase this weekend, tomorrow maybe, depending on price. I have a 3 day waighting period here, and i would like to take it to thhe range next weekend. Im going this weekend as well, but its too lste to get one by then, Unless trade my hi point, at which theres no period.

 

[wlewisiii]

FWIW, I own a armored car company trade-in Model 64. It's a 4" barrel & it's my EDC. It or the Model 10 (same weapon in blue steel) are excellent choices for a first revolver.

Hope this is of some help.

 

[W.E.G.]

Either of those guns will serve you just fine.

Buy with confidence.

 

[mmitch]

gibson,

Your post tells me you have little-to-no experience with handguns/revolvers. That's no sin, as we all start somewhere. Hell. I'm old and still learn somthing about our shared interest everyday.
You currently have everything you need for defense, so why not back-off on the urge to buy now. Do some reading and go to some shows/shops and get a little "stick time" doing research. For instance read about the 380 and the 357, then review your statement regarding them in your above post.
Save some discretionary cash, then armed with the aforementioned research, find the weapon, using the options afforded you by cash and wisdom, you want that fits your needs/wants. If it's quality and you learn to use and care for it, you'll be able to proudly pass it on to your coming child at the appropriate time.

Just an old guy with hard-won experience,
Mike

 

[gibson_es]

It just boils down to not having something for conceal. if im at home or m6 car. Im protected. But past that not so much... You now have me curious above those size rounds... What am i missing? Or you just refering to my typo?


I fully agree, i need to learn more. And yes, im a newb for sure... Jist want one for concealed carry. That all. Lol

 

[mmitch]

Read about it! You will discover vast new horizons.
Your Hi-Point may not be fashionable, but reliability has it's own attraction. I sometimes carry a 4" M-29 S&W, sometimes a Government Model 5" Colt, you can find a way to tote that Hi-Point! If anyone finds fault with it, invite them to tour the infernal regions.

Mike

 

[orionengnr]

The cost of the CCW is the same regardless of which handgun you choose, and as such, is irrelevant.

Not to say it's not a factor in your budget, but it is a constant, not a variable, and will not change.

The M-10 and the M-64 are proven and trusted weapons. That is also a constant...and one worthy of serious consideration.

There are smaller and easier to conceal handguns available, but all of them are either far more pricey or have reliability issues...or both.

Do a search and see if you can find anyone who has had an unreliable S&W K-frame, which has to be one of the top two or three most produced-and-sold handguns in history.

 

[gibson_es]

The more rsearch i do, the more i like the model 10. Its only turn off is weight. 36 oz (from what i could find) seems a bit heavy. My c9 is 25. 29 loaded. Amd it feels fairly heavy if i think of having it on me for 8-16 hours a day.

But im thinking it might be a compremise worth making. I havent stopped reading sense i posted this thread up. Except to drive home. tomorrow i might see if i can find one locally, to feel its weight. And see how it compares in price. If i get from j&g, im looking at $22 shipping. And then $25 to my ffl. So about $275 out the door.

Problem know is, i have strsngly fallen in love with the nagant revolver, though thisbwouldnt be a good carrying piece i wouldnt think. It intrigues me... Maybe next time...

Im really considering trading the hi-point. I like it, but ivcan use the saved money to get the permit. I can get by with out a truck gun (i have a car now, but by habbit call it a truck gun) if im carrying. And i would trust a s&w over my hi point i think, by design if nothing else.. then in sept, when i have more knowledge and resesrch under my belt. I can get a better, gun if i feel i want it. and make the m-10 the truck gun.. or just keep cruising with the m-10 on me.

Anyone know if theres a better place to get this online? I have read somewere that a place called SOG at them online is good shape for $169. I searched and found two sites with SOG in the name amd found nothing on either one.

For that price i might wanna be sceptical anyway.

 

[kayak-man]

Just my Two-Cents: Keep looking for something smaller. I think the Smith and Wesson is a great gun, but for concealed carry, you may want something a bit smaller.

I can understand the urge to buy the carry gun. I'm wrestling with about three other guns right now myself. If it was me, I wouldn't try to sell the hi-point. Its been my experiance that you can't get much for them since they were so inexpensive to begin with. I have a Hi-Point in 45, so I understand that you want something a bit more.... comfortable. (ya, I know, Clint Smith:"A gun should be comforting, not comfortable). They are probably out of your price range right now, but you may want to look into the Charter Arms revolvers. Buds Gunshop has some .38 snubbies (short barreled revolver) for sale. the going proce looks to be under 300. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21_203

found a couple new taurus revolvers for a little more, but there .327 and i dont know if want amything smaller the .380 acp. And really like the 257 mag and 38 specials.

I'm assuming the Taurus revolvers you're talking about are in .327 Federal Magnum, and the other mag is supposed to be .357 magnum. .357 is, from what I've heard, a fantastic bullet for concealed carry, and it will do its part if you do yours. The .327 is a smaller diameter than the .357 and the .380, but it achieves higher velocities than the .380. I've heard that it is closer, in terms of performance, to a .357 than it is to a .38Spl, but I don't have any experiance with it.

You may also want to check the newspapers like the "LittleNickle," they usually have someone selling a gun or two.

Hope you find what you're looking for.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

 

[gibson_es]

I like that charter arms. It is a bit out of price range though.

Originally i actually thought i wanted a short barrel like that, but all i read is that they are much less accurate, and a lot more recoil...

Is the comfort worth the compremise? (Not a sarcastic comment, but an actual question. Lol)

P.s. the clint smith comment had me rolling. Haha.

 

[kayak-man]

Is the comfort worth the compremise?

Yes, and at the same time, a large resounding "no." Compromise really is the name of the game. I have three "carry" guns. A Ruger SR9, a S&W 642 (.38spl about the size of those Charter Arms.) and a Ruger LCP. I don't carry the SR9 (full sized pistol) all that often, because compared to the otherr two, its not as easy to conceal. The Smith and LCP I usually carry in a pocket holster, and I really like being able to just drop one in my pocket instead of having to strap on a holster. That being said, if I didn't have to leave my gun in the car when I go to work, I'd probably carry the SR9 more (I feel funny having to get out of the car, in the HighSchool parking lot, and remove my gun. )

As far as the shootableness of the snubbies, its like beer - at first, you think its nasty, but after a while, you learn to love it. I used to hate my Smith and Wesson: It was not accuruate, and it was not fun to shoot. this went on for the first 3 or 4 range sessions. The gun used to be my dads, and he had some laser grips on it. I took the laser grips off, put the original grips on, and that helped with the recoil a bit. Then something happened. I don't know what, but I found that with each range trip, the recoil seemed less, and I was shooting progressively tighter "groups." I'm not that great with a handgun, but the snubby is becoming one of my favorite guns.

I'm not saying that if I was going to a gunfight the snubby is the first thing I'd grab (it would in fact be my cell phone, so I could call afew of my friends who are marines stationed neerby). One of the sayings that gets tossed around is "a .22 in your pocket is better than a .45 that you left at home." with a smaller gun, you're more likely to have it with you when you need it. On the other hand, that longer barrel and extra round might be mighty nice to have. it really is a compromise, and it comes down to what you're willing to have with you, and how much you can practice.

I figure that most gunfights are going to be pretty close, around 7 yards or less, and I may not be Wild Bill Hickock, but I think I can shoot a snubby well enough at those distances to do allright.

I feel safer with them vs a semi with one in chamber, and i feel not having one in the chamber is a loss of valuable time when you need it most.

When I was getting into shooting, I felt the same way. It took a lot of research and anecdotal evidence before I stopped feeling aprehension while thinking about carrying a 1911 "cocked and locked." I know you like revolvers (its ok, so do I.) but I think for concealed carry, width makes a huge difference, and you can't get much thinner than a semi-auto. There's some good, inexpensive commie guns out there, that might suit your needs pretty well. If I was you, I'd keep looking at the revolvers, but I'd also do some research into the Makarovs, P-64s, CZs, and the other eastern-block/commie guns. They are pretty reasonably priced, and would be pretty good for concealed carry.

Makarov:
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/handguns/makarov/cPath/16_151
CZ:
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/handguns/cz-surplus/cPath/16_155
FEG:
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/handguns/feg-hungary/cPath/16_277
A Kel-Tec would be pretty easy to carry, they are small guns:
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/handguns/kel-tec/cPath/16_298
P64:
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/handguns/polish/cPath/16_385


Just some additional advice that I like to give people that are looking for thier first carry/defense gun: Look at the legal section here. Don't make the mistake of assuming that once you shoot the bad-guy, you're out of hotwater. They may cover some of that at your CCW class, I don't know, I didn't need to take one. Just make sure you're not going to get locked up for a clean shoot.

Some Snubby Specific advice: Theres a guy, by the name of Walter Rouche (spelling?) who I've seen on a couple shooting shows. He and Lovette are my go-to-guys for snubby info. Theres a video of Walter R, and if I can find it, I'll post it, about why he thinks the snubby is one of the best CCW choices you can make.

In the interest of being fair to the Smith And Wesson you origanaly posted about: I'm not saying don't get it. At the end of the day, this is your descision. Heck, I may buy one, they look pretty cool, and I love old wheel guns. Just do your homework, and you should pull out OK. Normally, I'd have said get that model 10, and not a snubby, because learning to shoot on a small handgun is challenging. but since you already have a Hi-Point, this won't be your "very first handgun ever."

I hope this helps, theres others here much more experianced and knowledgeable than I am, so you should be able to get one or two pieces of decent info on this board.

Hey all. First post here

Almost forgot, Welcome to the High Road!

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

 

[greyling22]

Gibson, in response to your question about calibers, from basic physics we learn that force = mass x acceleration. so you can have lots of force 1 of 2 ways: heavy object moving fast, or small object moving VERY fast. We also learn that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. (more power = more recoil)
You can load every caliber with a variety of bullet weights and speeds, but here are some example guidelines below:

a 380 shoots a 100 grn bullet (.229 ounces) around 900 feet per second.
a 38 special fires 140 grn bullet around 900 fps.
a 327 fires a 100 grn bullet around 1500 fps.
a 357 fires a 148grn bullet around 1500 fps.

357 caliber guns can fire the less powerful, but cheaper and more pleasant 38 special, but 38 special guns cannot fire 357's. The 2 smiths you linked are 38 guns only. A 9mm and a 38 are pretty close.
very small, lightweight guns conceal well, but are not fun to shoot. Less fun when firing a more powerful caliber.

If I was in your shoes, I would carry the hi-point for now and save my pennies for a ruger sp101. compact but not tiny, kind of heavy to help with recoil, can be fired with either 38's or 357's.

If I were in my shoes I'd get a full sized 357 revolver to take to the range and shoot for fun (smith 686 or ruger gp100) and I'd get a small plastic 9mm automatic for carrying around.

 

[TwoWheelFiend]

In my opinion Smith is the only revolver worth getting. But i am biased.

 

[Lucky Derby]

A few thoughts:
A good S&W K frame is hard to beat. Do your part and it will last forever.
A .38 or .357 will be much easier to find ammo for (and cheaper) than .327.
You can shave about 5oz off the M10's weight by getting one with a standard (tappered) barrel instead of the HB (Heavy Barrel).

 

[MachIVshooter]

For a CCW revolver in your price range, I think you're best bet will be a lightly used Charter. $250 isn't a lot, and really isn't for such a narrow spectrum of guns. You might luck out and find a used SP-101 or J-frame for that, but don't hold your breath.

The model 10 and 64 you linked are great guns, but I don't think you'll like carrying them all the time. K frames aren't big, but they aren't exactly small, either. If they were 2-1/2", it'd be a little different, but that extra inch and a half does make a difference for concealment.

Youre options would be vastly improved if you considered autoloaders, but I can't say I'd recommend condition 3 carry ever, so unless you can get past that loaded chamber phobia, yeah, stick with revolvers.

(FWIW, carrying a DA autoloader with one in the tube hammer down (or a DAO) is no different than a fully loaded DA revolver. With a few exceptions, both are 100% drop safe)

 

[gibson_es]

First off, thanks a ton for all the help and replies, they have helped more then you know.


Well. I had a huge mesaage typed here. And my phone lost connection as i rried to post, and it got lost. Its. 4 a.m.-ish. And i dont feel like ryping it all again. It was really long. So here is a paraphrase, or run down, of what i had typed

I spent all day looking at guns yesterday, after mybwifes early morning doc appointment (week 20, found out were having a girl!)

These are the results after physically seeing and holding a few, as well as after hours of more resesrch.

I love the model 10. Andbif i had some real experiance with carrying, i would most likely go for it. But florida has no open carry. And fromvthe way i underdtand it, if someone can notice your gun, or if its visibal even just when bending over to tie your shoe, you could grt in serious trouble. So take no chances.

This said. I fell in love with two guns. The s&w lightweight snubby, and the ruger lcp.

If money was no object, i would get both. And carry the ruger on my ankle. If i had a couple extra houndred. I would get the s&w.

Heres a good run down on my thoughts as of now. $300 is my upper limit... High upper limit... that said, all the 642's 432's (err... 4 something... You know what im refering to im sure) that had single actioan were too much. Best i could do would be $400 out the door, at $300, after reviewing my budget, i would uave to sell my hi point. So i dont think i can come up with the extra houndred on top of that.

I found a few around $270-$290. But they were DAO, and i didnt like them as much. Dontbwantbto seetle for a s&w i dont really want.

The ruger lco i really like, now that i have done more research. You will see a thread on this soon. Even though its not the 642 (or varient) i want most, i dont feel its really a comrise as i do a DAO 642. I really do like this gun. Its a close second.

With the lcp, i can use it as an ankle gun when/if i can get the s&w 642 in sept. If i get the DAO only now, then when i get the one i want. I will have a gun i dont wanna carry, and will be trying to trade for an lcp anyway.

So, if anyone see's one for sale at under $300 shipped, let me know. Otherwise, im realky thinking the lcp is it. i will review my budget again. And see if i have anything layingbsround i dont want/use for the extra houndred, nut i have my doubts... I coukd prob stretch the budget to my liking. But thsts not very responsible IMHO, you never know when my car will brake down, or the t.v. stops working (and if my pregnant wife cant watch her shows at night before bed, lord help us all!)

 

[greyling22]

You might check out the taurus 85 line. Pretty much the same gun as the smith, and cheaper. you won't find a S&W that cheap unless you steal one used. I know, I've been looking for a while (best deals I've seen were $350+ FFL. Taurus runs about 50-75 less). There are certainly taurus haters, but there are plenty of people who like them, they're just less vocal.

Just keep in mind, "tiny guns are not fun to shoot" when you go to practice.

 

[gibson_es]

Used is fine. Still cant find one though.

I find all guns fun as long as they work. However. I can see how they could be less fun. But i prefer eifles for fun anyway. Shooting this at the range would just be for practice.

 

[w2fnt]

The new Ruger LCR is a very nice gun indeed. I shoot it as well as my J frame Smiths

 

[mj246]

Would waiting/saving up for a couple of months increase the budget at all? If you could add a hundred bucks or so to your budget, you can probably afford a used j-frame, if that's what you want. Certainly the lcp is a pretty good option too though.

 

[bikerdoc]

Welcome to THR gibson es!!!!!


Your maturity and careful enthusiasm is refreshing.

For CCW you cant go wrong with a Smith snub I have a 649.


As for the money,
if you find what you like after research and fondling and renting and borrowing, - you get the idea - SAVE. Do not settle.
Better yet (and this is the grandpa talking,) get as much education as you can and pick a profession that will let you earn enough to indulge your passion.

The C9 is ok and can be traded but outright sale will net more money.

Again welcome young man

 

[OldCavSoldier]

Gibson: Bikerdoc has the right idea. If you want a particular piece, but it is out of your range right now, don't settle for "second best"...you will never be happy. Save up for what you really want and then get it from a reputable dealer. You may want to re-think the whole ankle-holster thing. Also, you will have a couple of years after your daughter is born until you have to worry about her getting into things that are put up high...ie, closet high shelf level. When my kids were toddlers and up to about five years old, my home protection piece was a semi auto with the piece one place and the mag another....both close enough for me to put both hands on both items at the same time, load, rack, and go to business in about a second and a half.

I would like to echo the comments that it is refreshing to find someone "younger" with the presence of mind to ask questions and do research.

 

[gibson_es]

Thanks guys. And on the education thing.. im a current srudent at my comm. College, headed to USF when im done here.. took a 4 years brake from school aftee high school. Lol. So im only in my second semester. Starting third in aug.

As for settling. Thats what i would be doing if i got the s&w DAO. The ruger however. Im really liking more and more. At this point i think its even with the s&w i want... At less cost.

Either way i would eventually want both. So i dont know if it matters much which i get first.

As it stands, im thinking next week will be purchase date. Unless i find my self truly un decided still. and my budget may grow or shrink by then.

As for saving. Eh, not really a way to. Heres how it works.

I ger financial aid. Every semester i get a few thousand back, after he school takes what it needs( i love grantd) and this is when i spend a few hundred on myself. Summer is split in half, and im waiting dor my second half dor summer to come through.. eithee roday or next week. Hints the gun so the budget wont change much, until sept. At which point i can get a whole other gun.


Forgive my typos. Doing this from a phone and trying to finish before it dies.

 

[greyling22]

gibson, I don't know if you're still looking at the smith 642's at all, but I finally found new ones for less than $300. http://www.jetguns.com/m642-special-stainless-p-489.html A cool $299 shipped.

 

[22-rimfire]

I would just use the high point as your carry gun for now. Life is a struggle and you have to make reasonable choices with the cards you are dealt. Take the class and let tomorrow work itself out.

I hope you have been working a summer job. I know I could have used more help myself this summer in my area.

The Ruger LCR in 38spl runs around $300. You are looking at revolvers now that you simply will have a lot of problem concealing. Think 2" barrel.... or worst case 3" barrel. I personally prefer the S&W 642/442, but they run more. Most carry guns are carried a lot and shot little. Shooting these small guns is not my idea of pleasurable, but unless you choose a air-weight 357 mag, I wouldn't say "painful".