Safe 12 ha Damascus barrel loads

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Catpop

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I’m looking for safe loads for my 12 gauge Damascus barreled shotguns. Black powder, no substitutes or smokeless?
Maybe #6 shot for squirrels?
Also #8-9 for doves?
Can anyone guide me in this quest?
Thank you
Catpop
 
I load for my Damascus Parker. I use mostly Pyrodex. The trick is to square your loads. Run equal powder to shot by volume. I run 65 grains of powder to 11/8 of shot. The next thing is finding wads that a!!ow you get the right crimp. Too long and you squish the shell, too short and the shot runs out when you point the gun downhill. I am partial to the pink Federal hulls mainly so I can ID them easily. Paul Harm is a great resource for information on this as he shoots Damascus shotguns a lot. Maybe he will weigh in for us.
 
If you're unsure of the soundness of the barrel(or barrels) you can "proof" them by loading up a full 3dram 1¼ and putting thr gun in a sandbag nest....secure with a tarp strap...put a string on the trigger....back off behind the tree and *boom*.

Listen for pieces of Damascus steel falling back to earth.......of non detected....go inspect.
 
RST shells makes low pressure loads designed for Damascus barreled shotguns that have passed inspection by a qualified gunsmith. The ringing the barrel test and a borescope are usually used.
For guns that are iffy on those tests, jmorris' suggestion of tubes in 20, 28 or .410 is a viable option.
 
Ringing the barrels only tells you if the ribs are soldered the entire length of the barrels. I've been shooting them from around 2003 or 4. I put on my first SxS Shoot in 2005 and many guys show up with Damascus barreled SxSs. Most shoot nitro powders, and no one has blown up a barrel. This is not to say all Damascus guns are safe, but Sherman Bell in two different test tried to blow up 40 "wall hangers" with Remington proof loads of 18,200psi. A normal load is max at 12,000psi. None of them blew. He then took a Parker and kept increasing the powder and at 30,000psi it finally blew. Next load at 32,000psi and the other barrel went. The British always have and still do proof Damascus barreled shotguns, rifles, and pistols. They, unlike us, see nothing wrong with the use of Damascus for barrel steel.

I try to show 100+ year old guns a little respect. I use lighter loads because of the wood - not wanting to see it crack. And most the old SxSs have a lot of drop in the stock. This will cause the barrels to go up along with the comb of the stock. This means your cheek bone is gonna get whacked. BP shotgun loads are in the 7 to 8000psi range, so picking your load around there will help. Also, light [ 1oz or less, I like 7/8 or 3/4oz in the 12ga ] shot charges. It's hard to find these kind of loads unless you reload or know someone who does. As Hawg said, 65 to 75 grs of BP will work with 1oz of shot. Get one of the old adjustable BP measures that can be used for both powder and shot. Using one for nitro powders is where back in the day many guns were blown up. Guys were use to using equal amounts of powder and shot, and that didn't hold true for the new nitro powders. And that's one of the reasons Damascus guns got a bad reputation. Anyways, if shooting BP use fiber wads, not plastic. They'll leave a mess in the barrel. Plastic shells are ok. BPI or Precision Reloading have adjustable measures and fiber wads. Circle Fly, who I believe makes the fiber wads for everyone, has a web site with a chart explaining all about fiber wads. With BP I've shot anywhere from 70grs of 3F and 1oz of shot to 100grs of 2F and a 1 1/8os of shot. BP is very forgiving. Nitro is not. You can find light nitro loads in the Hodgdon or Alliant web sites. I use mostly Alliant and for 3/4oz loads in a Remington hull and Red Dot powder, Claybuster wads show 15 to 17grs or 15.3 to 17.3 in a Federal hull. All loads are 5500 to 6350psi, which is a light pressure load, light shot payload. There are many more, you'll just have to do a little research.

I now have about a dozen SxSs, all but three with Damascus barrels and have been shooting one or the other three times a week over at the club near my house. No one can answer your question if yours is safe. And not a gunsmith who doesn't know something about Damascus guns. If he doesn't own and shoot one, he doesn't know. They're just gonna CTA in case of a lawsuit and say don't shoot it. You can look at the gun to see if it was taken care of. Is it still tight on face [ no wiggles side to side, up or down , when closed ]. Is the bore smooth ? A little pitting is ok because most were shot in the BP to nitro days. Is there somewhere around .100 thickness at the breech end, .040 or more at the muzzle end ? Do the barrels ring ? [ stick your finger out and put the hooked underlug on your finger so the barrels are hanging on it. Tap the barrels up and down in a bunch of different spots with a quarter to see if they ring. Maybe they won't in every spot, but should ring. ] These are a couple of test I make when buying any SxS. Hoped I've helped a little.
 
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One thing not mentioned is using the correct hull for the chambers. Folded crimp hulls are a new invention and not compatible with old shotguns. Brass hulls are the best choice. Paper hulls are hard to find. Modern plastic hulls can be cut and roll crimped.

 
One thing not mentioned is using the correct hull for the chambers. Folded crimp hulls are a new invention and not compatible with old shotguns. Brass hulls are the best choice. Paper hulls are hard to find. Modern plastic hulls can be cut and roll crimped.



Good point. Damascus barrels are going to be short chambered. Anywhere from 2 1/2 - 2 5/8. A 2 3/4 will fit but the crimp will open up over the forcing cone and raise pressure. Original shells were roll crimped and the barrels have a different forcing cone. I cut plastic shells and roll crimp but you can only load them with bp 1 or 2 times before they're melted too bad to reuse. Brass shells would be the best option.
 
Good point. Damascus barrels are going to be short chambered. Anywhere from 2 1/2 - 2 5/8. A 2 3/4 will fit but the crimp will open up over the forcing cone and raise pressure. Original shells were roll crimped and the barrels have a different forcing cone. I cut plastic shells and roll crimp but you can only load them with bp 1 or 2 times before they're melted too bad to reuse. Brass shells would be the best option.

RST makes 2 1/2" shells for short chambered guns. You don't "have" to use brass hulls. MEC makes adapters for their 600 loader so the RST (or factory primed Fiocchi hulls, available from Ballistic Products) can be reloaded.

There's always the sub gauge tubes option, also.
 
RST makes 2 1/2" shells for short chambered guns. You don't "have" to use brass hulls. MEC makes adapters for their 600 loader so the RST (or factory primed Fiocchi hulls, available from Ballistic Products) can be reloaded.

There's always the sub gauge tubes option, also.
But short shells for short chambers do not necessarily mean low pressure loads. Although shooting long shells in too short chambers can raise pressures significantly.
 
RST makes 2 1/2" shells for short chambered guns. You don't "have" to use brass hulls. MEC makes adapters for their 600 loader so the RST (or factory primed Fiocchi hulls, available from Ballistic Products) can be reloaded.

There's always the sub gauge tubes option, also.

No you don't have to use brass shells but unless you have access to a steady supply of once fired shells brass is the best option. You can only load plastic shells with bp once or twice.
 
For Cowboy Action Shooting, I cut and load AA and Remington STS hulls, just pitch them after one use. I have loaded Fiocchi 10 gauge hulls and get holds burned through in one firing.
 
Been using those gay pink Federals, 65 grains of powder, either 3 f or Pyrodex, AA wads. 1 1/8 oz of shot. Every once in a while I score a good handful of the hulls when I'm out and about bird hunting, have never bought hulls just picked them up. So far the Federals have held up very well.
 
I've got a bunch of Remington and Winchester hulls. I use 75 grains of 2F or Pyrodex RS and after one shot they have melted beads of plastic in them. If I can get enough of it out I'll load them again but after two shots the plastic is too far gone.
 
Wow, never ran into that problem. Might have something to do with roll crimping, most plastic hulls are designed for a star type crimp. Maybe the roll crimp is causing some of the problems. I also lengthened the forcing cones on my double barrel so that might be why I don't have further issues. Something is causing your particular problem, might be worth changing how you do things and see if anything changes.
 
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