Safety off while CC

[bgw45]

Since I carry 1911s with grip safeties I'm not as concerned. When and if it comes out of the holster I want it ready to fire. I'm not sure when under stress I'd be able to feel the difference when sweeping the thumb safety off.
Every evening when taking it off my hip I do so with the utmost respect. Yes, I've found the safety off. Since said holster has a thumb break between hammer and firing pin I feel the safety of myself and others is secure. I did adjust the holster and resolved the problem. My preference is that it stays on as that is how I train. JMHO

 

[AK103K]

If youre relying on a 1911's grip safety, Id suggest checking its function regularly.

Ive owned two NIB 1911's that came from the factory with nonfunctioning grip safeties.

Another issue with them you may want to consider, especially if youre one to switch up guns, make sure you practice regularly with them. If you shoot a lot of the more current "high grip" handguns, that grip safety may bite you in the butt and not give you the "bang" you were expecting when you try to pull the trigger.

 

[Tallball]

"Reason to get a DAO pistol with no safety. Nothing to worry about."


That. No offense meant to the OP. I am middle-aged. I like old-school handguns. My preferred range and plinking handguns are single-action revolvers and 1911 (or "1911 inspired") pistols.

But for CC I only do a DA revolver with no hammer spur (or a shrouded hammer spur), or a DAO pistol.

Murphey's Law is harsh. A safety disengaging when you don't want it to disengage, or not disengaging when you want it to disengage, is a definite possibility.

I want "draw, aim, squeeze" without anything that needs to be manipulated, or that is likely to snag on anything.

That's just me. I respect other people's opinions if they feel otherwise.

 

[luzyfuerza]

When I ask brand new shooters to tell me what they think the rules of safe shooting might be, they often say "keep the safety on".

Of course there are several versions of firearms safety rules, (NRA, NSSF, Gunsight, etc.) but none to my knowledge include "keep the safety on". There's a reason for this: all rely on operator actions, not mechanical components, to ensure safe shooting.

NRA curriculum makes it clear that safeties are mechanical devices and mechanical devices fail, and that safe shooting depends on the actions of the shooter, not on the proper function of any "safety" devices built into the gun. The NSSF is even clearer: their third safety rule is "Don't Rely On Your Gun's 'Safety'"!

I think that Gunsite's version of the safety rules is the best fit for those who carry loaded firearms for defense:

1) All guns are always loaded,
2) never point your muzzle at anything that you do not wish to destroy,
3) keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target, and
4) always be sure of your target.

Note that these are all operator actions. When used with a properly designed and maintained firearm, they will lead to safe shooting.

OP, note that having your safety unintentionally slip to the fire position during carry doesn't violate any of Gunsite's four rules. However, being "spooked" when the safety unintentionally disengages, and being "uncomfortable" carrying a cocked 1911-style pistol with the safety dis-engaged is a little voice whispering to you that you should probably reconsider your equipment and how you use it. BTW, for what's it worth, I wouldn't be comfortable having a safety lever unintentionally disengage on a cocked 1911-style handgun with a round in the chamber, either, especially when that gun doesn't have a grip safety.

Sometimes, as shooters, we decide to carry a gun that we "shoot well", without thinking through every aspect of the use of that particular firearm.

I suggest that you go back to the basics, and think about all of your daily actions that involve your gun and about the characteristics of the equipment (gun, holster, ammo, etc.) that you've selected. After you rethink things, you might come to the conclusion that what you're doing adequately protects you and those around you. On the other hand, maybe you'll decide to make some changes to your equipment or to your carry protocol.

Regardless of the conclusions that you reach, at the very least, the process of thinking things through one more time will be worthwhile.

I'll tell you the analogy that I kept in my mind while I personally went through this thought process: carrying a loaded gun is like having a full-grown, angry, wild poisonous snake in a cage on my hip. The snake is ready to strike at an instant's notice, but I'm the one who controls when it comes out of its cage and where it strikes. When it does come out, I know that there's a possibility that somebody (maybe somebody I love) is going to get bitten or die, and that somebody could go to jail. I put layers of protections in place to make sure that the snake doesn't slip out or strike except when I'm sure that I want it to.

My gun has all its fangs and venom in place. I carry a full-sized striker-fired pistol IWB in good leather designed just for this gun, with a round in the chamber. My gun does NOT have an external safety lever. However, everything I do to or with that gun is carefully and consciously developed to keep the snake in its cage unless I consciously choose to let it out. I've developed a set of daily habits that make sure that I ALWAYS obey the rules of safe shooting defined above, but which allow me to draw and engage a deadly threat if I am forced to use the gun to defend myself (or to perforate a rampaging sheet of paper or to ring the bell on an obstinate steel plate).

It sounds to me that you need to develop a set of daily habits that ALWAYS "keep your snake in its cage" unless you decide that it should come out. Personally, I believe that you may also need to make some changes to the cage or to get a new snake. The sooner you do this, the better.

 

[C0untZer0]

The same thing happened to me years ago with a Colt Mustang


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[Tirod]

Nobody is suggesting that any one person's expectations of safety are more or less better than another's. Having gone thru that episode with the LCP and then having changed mine 180 degrees carrying another gun with identical function, it's very much personal attitude that is involved.

You either feel safe or you don't, and if a particular gun and holster combination don't deliver on that, it's entirely your decision what to do about it.

It is not necessarily a absolute rule or something that other's agree with, which prompts this: researching guns use by LEO's, I found a number of reports across the web where officers carried them loaded hammer down off safe. There were others who did the opposite, carried cocked and locked.

Given the discussion a gun can be carried safely either way, what differs are the expectations of the user - not any actual probability of negligent discharge. If one mode is dangerous and an issue, you could switch to the other.

Here's the takeaway - how you or I assess the safety of a guns controls is entirely up to our perceptions and expectations. It does not mean that the conclusion we come to that one way is unsafe is the bottom line and indisputable. Quite a few of us older shooters have been on both sides of that - changing tastes and new guns on the market allow us to make "new decisions." Having been trained on military issue SA guns early in life I had little tolerance for DA or DAO action guns - and yet that is now my first choice in carry.

A Kahr CW380 in a holster has about 7.5 pounds of trigger pull, a P938 the same. When off safe, the only difference between the two triggers is that the Kahr is longer, the P938 shorter. It still takes 7.5 pounds of pressure to pull the trigger and discharge it. What prevents that from happening? A holster - which is the first line of safety, to prevent tangling the trigger up at all and prevent a negligent discharge. We prevent discharges by covering the trigger. The actual difference in movement is about half an inch in many cases - which begs the question, if something can get to your trigger with enough force, how does a half inch more slack make it safer?

And yet we accept that it does, which I attribute to mindset, not actual fact. Too bad we can't tabulate the ND's reported over the years, but when you add in all the DA guns sold to police, it wouldn't be wrong to say that they are the leading type of trigger to have unintentional discharges. And that is not what we would expect, but there it is.

Doesn't prompt me to buy or sell one with or without a safety. Frankly, I think a slide hold open is more important. A large number of guns are sold without any safety at all, just a bare trigger in the guard. Nobody frets too much about it.

 

[Acera]

.................., that grip safety may bite you in the butt and not give you the "bang" you were expecting when you try to pull the trigger.

I know of a guy that carries everyday and has electrical tape wrapped around his grip safety so that will not be an issue. His 1911 does not have the bump and it is hard for him to get a grip that depresses it. IIRC his holster is such that the thumb safety must be on to fit.





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[Fishbed77]

This is the reason I prefer DAO or DA/SA pistols for carry. As always, YMMV.

 

[Ibmikey]

The Sig p 238/938 is very similar to a Mustang but the whole bunch are copied from the Star DK which in the Sixties was touted in the gun rags as the best concealable pistol made (68 GCA killed them).
I like being able to apply the safety before cycling a fresh round ( hammer must be cocked) ....funny thing I have carried a DK or Sig P 238/938 or Kimber Micro ( same basic pistol) for at least ten years without having the safety wiped to the "fire" position. I currently carry each in a individually molded Kydex IWB holster which helps protect the safety and the detents are quite positive when the safety is operated.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

That's exactly is it should be. The holster should hold the safety in the "safe" position. Ideally, you should be able to holster an UNloaded cocked pistol with the safety OFF, and the holster should force the safety into the SAFE position.

 

[acdodd]

I have never seen a holster that will engage the safety.
Do you have any information on one that will?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There are several brands of holsters nowadays, but I make my own. More than 20 years ago I designed a holster the automatically engages the safety as you holster the gun.

 

[shooter1]

I carried a 1911 for years as a LEO. My court rig with a Gould and Goodrich holster would wipe the safety off over the course of the day. My Safariland SLS duty rig kept the safety in the on position. We're talking no ambi safety here. It's all in the holster.
str1

 

[RX-79G]

A holster that secures the safety is really the only good solution. Otherwise you have the ability to bump off the safety, or have to resort to using a single sided safety that makes shooting off hand nearly impossible.


If getting the safety bumped off sometimes is just normal, why bother using a gun with a safety at all?

 

[Zerodefect]

Good pistols and CCW systems have some redundancy in safety.

Detail strip it. Does it's trigger parts have a good positive engagement? If so, it's fairly safe should the thumb safety be rarely pushed off on accident. No problem. If your thumb safety has a habit of being turned off, problem. May need it's detent deepened, if it has such a thing.

Does the Crossbreed cover and protect the trigger well? Yes, then no problem. You could eve add a thumb break to the holster that blocks the hammer, I wouldn't go that extreme, yet.

Even my lightest triggered 1911 would require some major bad luck to get it to go off in my Crossbreed holster. Just not practical to worry about it to the point of empty chamber or hammer down nonsense.

If you really want to sweat it, get a Dan Wesson ECO or other DW. Very positive thumb safeties on those. A click so solid it could give your position away.


Bottom line is, the safety got swiped off once. No big deal, yet.