Saiga 12s - Approaching extinction?

Status
Not open for further replies.
1stmarine, how does one go about getting on your Christmas list? :D

The S12 seems like a fun toy, but I don't think I'd pay more than $400 or so for one, considering the further cost of conversion - and I haven't seen a S12 for $400 in a looong time.

$600-700 will buy me three used 870s, or one fully tricked out.
 
I have no idea. It really depends of the demand and the supply. I will not be surprised they will be hitting the 1K in a year or two.
My buddy told me a funny story at a gun show he went recently. Apparently there was a dealer there that had a few of them but only have one out at the time.
when he arrived to the show in the morning first thing they had one up for $600 and they sold it right there in 5 minutes. Then after 1hr put the other one out for $700 and sold it right away. Then the next one they put for $800 and gone. He said the last one before he left was up for $950 and there were folks swarming around it and he thought will be sold too but then he was done and left.
You know the way it goes. We live in a consuming society and if see azz then we want azz.
The russians are not stupid so if the supply goes down and demand keeps up they will jack up the prices. The importers the same.
So this is a great opportunity for companies good in innovation like keltec to come up with an alternative autoloader via magazine.
I know another thing that is, when the gasoline is going up, everything is going up, including the milk and the eggs we eat.

I told many friends when they were cheap stock up boys! and they didn't listen. Everyone were, those are not good. ...russian cheap spartan stuff some said.
No many folks really knew them yet. Now that everyone wants one then they cannot find them.
I have four saigas 12's and if I could find more for $300 or $400 I will get more but those days are long gone.

If you see one on sale get it. ...I mean, not like those at the gun show that who knows where they ended up but a little more civilized price still.
 
Last edited:
I love Saigas. Here is an SBS conversion that I did. They are extremely customizable and as such make an awesome CQB weapon.

photo.jpg

Thanks to the ATF and their attempts to redefine the english language to mean whatever they want it to mean, they are worth more than they ever have been.
 
Considering how many rounds of 40,000 CUP 7.62x39 rounds an AK can be expected to digest before it stops working (if anyone's yet figured out how many hundreds of thousands that is) ... not just grandkids, but their grandkids too, maybe
Click to expand...
There is no doubt that 12ga shotgun ammo runs at a fraction of the chamber pressure of 7.62x39. However, the bolt thrust of a 12ga shotshell is considerably more than that of a centerfire intermediate chambering and it remains to be seen how the Saiga handles that over time....
 
I agree and that depends on what AK too right?
The saiga AKs are all Russian steel chromed barrel, chambers and bolt so right there there is a life extension of 30% on average or so. Molot AKs too.
The ones we see from US barrels and receivers who knwos what steel and finish.
I find the AK shoots well for 15-18K rounds and then the barrel starts to show wear but still shoots ok. just looses a bit of accuracy that's all. The barrels wear well due to the low velocity slower twist.
(2300fps in comparison to 3,600fps of a 22-250 for example that takes a toll of barrel material faster)
And also depends on where you use your system. Sand and dust (ie: Afganistan) takes a toll not just on the ARs but also the AKs that can handle that much better bur still.
Whatever the system preventive maintenance is paramount. There are parts that wear, springs, firing pins, etc.. that need inspection once in a while.
Every system needs some TLC. Glocks need a preventive maintenance plan for every few thousand rounds. This is paramount if your life depends on that tool. If is just a failure at the range practicing with our buddies then we will fix it later at night down in the basement. Not big deal.

Cheers,
E.
 
Looking at the small bolt lug of an 870 certainly implies that the larger multi-lug of the AK bolt/receiver would be more than fine. It's just that we'll not know for some time yet if theory matches reality. :)
 
I think it depends a lot on the user. If someone fires a lot of high brass shotshells through the saiga with the gas plug on the low brass setting it will batter the rear trunion and possibly make the thing mis-shapen over time (if they don't correct it).
AK designs are crude but surprisingly robust. It's not like this is something that came out 4 years ago, they've been around since 1947 (albeit in a different caliber) and it seems difficult to make them choke.
The price issue is a combination of the dwindling supply of S12s left in the country and the fear that they won't get imported anymore. The prices always seem to go up before the next shipment since they get scarce all of the sudden (I think Izhmash only sends like 1 or 2 shipments per year), plus that ATF's "study" that seems to be conducted by Paul Helmke creates a perfect storm for a buying frenzy.
Wait. The prices will come back down. It's a $400 shotgun.
 
I like the AK platform. I think it is the "overall" most versatile and reliable weapon design in modern times. A couple years ago, I wanted to buy a shotgun and my first choice was the Saiga 12 gauge. Long story short, I wasn't that impressed with the overall quality and the larger magazines were awkwardly large. Factor in the extra money to convert it it's "proper" form and it won't always cycle well with reduced recoil ammo and it just isn't worth it.

I don't think they should be made illegal to import. It is a legitimate sporting shotgun and IMHO should be viewed no differently than any other semi-auto shotgun.
 
I'd look around for a used one if I were you. You might just luck out and find someone who bought theirs when they were cheap and doesn't realize how much the price has gone up.
 
You might just luck out and find someone who bought theirs when they were cheap and doesn't realize how much the price has gone up.
Click to expand...
I know someone who bought one several years ago and never fired it, and recently sold it for less than six bills unfired in box - just because asking more for it seemed wrong.

Not everyone is opportunistic.
 
The saiga 12 price fluxates by time of year about evry two years there is a new shipment to america idk where i read this tho..........i think atlantic firearms......btw they sell them
 
If we paint a line with the prices in the last few years we will get a chart going up.
I would think this is the way the trend is going to continue like many other firearms in high demand.
It might go up slower or faster but up nevertheless whether we like it or not.
This is also the trend is many industry sectors specially as the supply chain is always impacted by the increase in oil prices that results in increases in the costs of manufacturing, transportation and retail/distribution.
These are indicators you can find everywhere, not just simple opinions.

On top of that when goods are in high demand the retailers have more options to play with the pricing that is what they have been doing lately, some folks taking this to extremes. I wouldn't pay $900 for an unconverted Saiga but some people have done that. In the end we live in a free country with a free market and we want to keep it that way.

This is issue of importing new firearms from low cost countries is a very fundamental one. Like the XD piston from the Springfield armory that is fully manufacturer and assembled in Croatia. We all agree that Russian AKs or Saigas are hard to beat in terms of quality and reliability but I also tell people to think about this: we can go to walmart to get the greatest latest deal but every dollar we save in Chinese made products is a dollar invested in the future misery of our children.
The government has nothing to do with the issue of sending the manufacturing jobs overseas, it is us, our decision as consumers that we do not demand the MADE IN THE USA in our products.
Even if its Russian AK, canada, mexico, other places, and then assembled here why everything has to be made and assembled in communist china? I am not talking just abut the S12's but the ammo, accessories, gear, ....then other sectors... cars, electronics, etc... Think about it.

Saiga 12 prices should stabilize around $600 or less but do not be surprised if you see them going closer to $700 soon even after the big shipments hit the shores. There are a lot of backorders to be fulfilled. In my local gunshop they told me they have them all already sold whatever the quantity and price they can get. With limits obviously as they are always loyal to the customers and are not too gritty about profits.

Cheers
E.
 
Last edited:
1stmarine said:
If we paint a line with the prices in the last few years we will get a chart going up.
I would think this is the way the trend is going to continue like many other firearms in high demand.
It might go up slower or faster but up nevertheless whether we like it or not.
This is also the trend is many industry sectors specially as the supply chain is always impacted by the increase in oil prices that results in increases in the costs of manufacturing, transportation and retail/distribution.
These are indicators you can find everywhere, not just simple opinions.

On top of that when goods are in high demand the retailers have more options to play with the pricing that is what they have been doing lately, some folks taking this to extremes. I wouldn't pay $900 for an unconverted Saiga but some people have done that. In the end we live in a free country with a free market and we want to keep it that way.

This is issue of importing new firearms from low cost countries is a very fundamental one. Like the XD piston from the Springfield armory that is fully manufacturer and assembled in Croatia. We all agree that Russian AKs or Saigas are hard to beat in terms of quality and reliability but I also tell people to think about this: we can go to walmart to get the greatest latest deal but every dollar we save in Chinese made products is a dollar invested in the future misery of our children.
The government has nothing to do with the issue of sending the manufacturing jobs overseas, it is us, our decision as consumers that we do not demand the MADE IN THE USA in our products.
Even if its Russian AK, canada, mexico, other places, and then assembled here why everything has to be made and assembled in communist china? I am not talking just abut the S12's but the ammo, accessories, gear, ....then other sectors... cars, electronics, etc... Think about it.

Saiga 12 prices should stabilize around $600 or less but do not be surprised if you see them going closer to $700 soon even after the big shipments hit the shores. There are a lot of backorders to be fulfilled. In my local gunshop they told me they have them all already sold whatever the quantity and price they can get. With limits obviously as they are always loyal to the customers and are not too gritty about profits.

Cheers
E.
Click to expand...
i like your views but i believe american firarms will rip u off if they have a good rep.........the only company not currently ripping people off on firearms(with a good reputation) is rossi and kel-tec........im happy with guns made elsewhere as long as it is reliable(puts bullet downrange in decent accuracy without exploding in my hand) even remington imports they're steel and so forth as most other companies on that bandwagon so to buy an all american made firearm with not one imported thing on and/or in it ur gunna have to go for a gun with a bad reputation.........i like cobra's but they arent steel o no! lol so buy a sns if ur a true american is what im getting from what u r saying........... my views is i wud rather be armed with a springfield "xd" series or beretta "92" series than a hi-point "brick" series.........also cheap guns arent bad i love a maverick 88 and a beretta 92 (nt cheap to most but i can get them for a decent price) and a mosin nagant and a cobra derringer
 
I hear you, in deed some locals are rip off. I love keltec for innovation and a good balance between cost and quality plus you know one dollar spent there is one dollar on the dinner table in some home in america vs. china, crotaia, etc...
Glocks they are made in Austria but at least they are assembled here.
I just wanted to point out that lots of folks are complaining about the governments sending manufacturing jobs to communist china but it is not them, it is us, the consumers and our behavior. Government are not even capable of balancing the books of a 'whoorehouse' let alone creating or sending any jobs anywhere.
 
I just wanted to point out that lots of folks are complaining about the governments sending manufacturing jobs to communist china but it is not them, it is us, the consumers and our behavior. Government are not even capable of balancing the books of a 'whoorehouse' let alone creating or sending any jobs anywhere.
Click to expand...

Mod Talk: And lets let that be the end of that. The economics and politics of "Made in the USA" vs. Imported Perfection, etc., is beyond our scope of discussion here at THR. While it's fine to say "I like this because it's USA-made," engaging in debates about the social benefits or detriments of such a choice is a discussion for elsewhere.
 
Sam1911 said:
Mod Talk: And lets let that be the end of that. The economics and politics of "Made in the USA" vs. Imported Perfection, etc., is beyond our scope of discussion here at THR. While it's fine to say "I like this because it's USA-made," engaging in debates about the social benefits or detriments of such a choice is a discussion for elsewhere.
Click to expand...
may i ask what you mean by elsewhere? im new....
 
may i ask what you mean by elsewhere? im new....
Click to expand...

Sure! Elsewhere would be anywhere outside of THR.

We don't have an Off Topic section and all our discussions are specifically focused on guns (and other weapons), shooting, RKBA, self-defense, and hunting.

Discussions of international politics, (actually any politics not specifically focused on RKBA) economics, social issues, religion, news & current events, or really anything else are not within our scope here.

That's what I meant when I said that you can say that you like a gun because it's made in the USA, but drop that subject there. We aren't going to host debates about jobs, the economy, the current president's domestic policies, foreign trade policies, outsourcing, immigration, etc.

Those are all important issues, surely, with many competing opinions and points of view. Many debates and discussions will be waged over them -- but not here. Here is where we have one thing in common -- guns -- and it's difficult enough to keep our discussions of THEM polite and gentlemanly without introducing extraneous issues into the fray.

If you really feel the need to berate or cheer someone over their opinions on these outside issues, send them a Private Message and, if they wish to respond, you may argue to your heart's content without troubling the rest of the board with it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

1911 guy
  • Locked
Yep, one of "Those" threads. I bought it, please educate me.
Replies
5
Views
1K
RAEIndustries
RAEIndustries
D
  • Locked
Goodbye, Saiga....
Replies
21
Views
2K
Girodin
G
F
  • Locked
Training with the Shotgun for Home Defense
Replies
8
Views
917
Lawyerman
L
H
  • Locked
Three Communities Use 'Data-driven' Approach to Gun Violence
2
Replies
46
Views
2K
saltydog452
S
G
  • Locked
Volokh: Bad social science and bad legal policy.
Replies
2
Views
439
Standing Wolf
S
Back
Top