Saiga AK .308 21.5"

[GreySmoke2]

Just bought a Saiga .308 on gunbroker with a Dinzag Arsenal 2-stage trigger and a Black Poly AK stock. I plan on an ATI Tactical Grip, Muzzel Break and Aluminum Quadrail. I mostly see the 16" but I think the 308 round really needs 18+ to fully stabilize. Anyone have experience with shooting one of these with the 21.5" barrel?

 

[Ranger30-06]

Very nice. Make sure you double check the forend rails though because most of them don't fit the .308 version. Also, I recommend a Tapco SAW grip as it fills the hand much more comfortably than a normal AK grip.

Now for the Debbie Downer side of things, it doesn't look like your rifle is 922r compliant right now; You need some American magazines and your good. I recommend CSSPECS as they are 3x overbuilt and have been reliable with everything I use.

I have a 16" and can put holes about 3moa or less all day with any ammo and irons. Good luck!

 

[M1key]

He is good to go with factory mags.

M

 

[Ranger30-06]

He is good to go with factory mags.

M

No he is not; He is 1 part short. If he changes out the handguard, then he can use either, however the way it is now has 5 American parts. He needs 6 in order to use either magazines and the handguard would be #6.

 

[GreySmoke2]

Checking on American mags for this on other boards the Pro Mags came got a surprisingly good review by more than one or two people so I ordered a few of them. Also I will be replacing the forearm with an Aluminum Tri or Quad possibly this one....

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1046/CSS-Saiga-Rifle-Forearm/Detail

And I think I may attempt to move the FSB back a pin and thread to 5/8x24 and add a Muzzle Break, possibly this one...

http://dinzagarms.com/brakes_hiders/74brake.html

 

[Ranger30-06]

I would skip the Promags. There are better ones for the money. The order of mag quality from best to worst is:

1. CSSPECS ~$45 Built like tanks. Seriously, they are indestructible.
2. Factory Mag ~$40 It's, well, a factory mag.
3. SGM Tactical ~$40 The best polymer magazine. These ones are pretty well liked.
4. Promag ~$30 I hear good and bad about these. Given their history, spend the extra $10 and get better magazines.
5. Surefire (SGM tactical's old magazines) ~$?? These aren't made anymore, but were notorious for snapping the feed lips off. Not good.

As far as the muzzle break, just be warned that it will make it a lot louder. That rail looks really nice though!

 

[M1key]

No he is not; He is 1 part short. If he changes out the handguard, then he can use either, however the way it is now has 5 American parts. He needs 6 in order to use either magazines and the handguard would be #6.

Check your math. http://jobson.us/922r/

You are fully compliant with USA trigger, hammer, disconnector, buttstock, pistol grip and you can use ANY magazine you want.

M

 

[GreySmoke2]

I ordered three Promags already at about $25ea shipped. Anyone try these new mags, they look really nice?

http://uintaindustries.com/

 

[M1key]

I ordered three Promags already at about $25ea shipped. Anyone try these new mags, they look really nice?

http://uintaindustries.com/

I am not a fan of the Pro-mags and neither are folks on the Saiga forum.

I tried three of the Uinta mags in two different rifles. They all fit too loose, especially in the rear lockup. Sent them back. Some others like them, but not me.

I much prefer the 10-round and 15-round Surefires. I have never heard of any problems with them.



M

 

[GreySmoke2]

I found the Saiga-12 forum after I ordered the pro mags, Guess I'll need to determine my own status on the pro mags...???

 

[Ranger30-06]

Check your math. http://jobson.us/922r/

You are fully compliant with USA trigger, hammer, disconnector, buttstock, pistol grip and you can use ANY magazine you want.

M

There's a problem with that calculator: The hammer/sear only count as 1 part, not 2. Therefore as of how the gun is now, it is not compliant without an American magazine.

Here is the link I have always used


I forgot about the Uinta magazines. Someone let me try theirs at a PA range and I agree that they were way too loose. They were built pretty tough though for a polymer magazine.

 

[GreySmoke2]

Guys stop the bickering I am using American Mags and I plan on replacing the forearm with a TRI rail I mentioned above so I'm good.....

 

[M1key]

This is important to get right for the sake of everyone.

Saiga rifle parts (with factory magazine) = 14

USA hammer (-1) = 13

USA trigger (-1) = 12

USA disconnector (-1) = 11

USA buttstock (-1) = 10

10 is the compliant number. You are now compliant WITH THE RUSSIAN MAG. Whatever mag you use does NOT change the compliant number.

This works for both links.


M

 

[JohnnyK]

I just got my Saiga .308 today... they are sweet.. the factory trigger is weird... I'm in the middle of converting it... you hear different stories between 16" vs 21" if the 16" were no good, the Russians wouldn't be making them... they are all checked for accuracy and certified before they can leave the factory... I'm going to break mine in tomorrow and let you know what I think.. Johnny

 

[M1key]

There's a problem with that calculator: The hammer/sear only count as 1 part, not 2. Therefore as of how the gun is now, it is not compliant without an American magazine.

Here is the link I have always used

I am NOT counting the sear. The hammer and sear count as ONE part. Results are the SAME for BOTH links.

M

 

[GreySmoke2]

By the way the grip is an American part also.

 

[M1key]

Yes, but the grip doesn't count toward compliance either way. If you want to be sure you are compliant, use either of the links provided.

I have converted five Saiga rifles and use either USA or factory magazines.

Here is one of my 308s:

M

 

[mshootnit]

The rifle as-is is 922r compliant. Five parts US leaves 10 foreign and that's legal.

 

[henschman]

Even if there is a 922(r) violation, that law only imposes a penalty on the person who manufactured the rifle, so you are definitely good to go since you bought it already set up that way.

As for barrel length, yes the 16 inchers are usually more accurate, probably because of barrel whip. I have heard good results from people cutting them back to 18" or 19". BTW I agree with you that an 18" is the minimum length barrel I would ever own for a .308 (with the possible exception of a suppressed one).

 

[Girodin]

Now for the Debbie Downer side of things, it doesn't look like your rifle is 922r compliant right now

That is a compliant rifle. I didn't realize counting to ten was difficult. The factory saiga has 14 countable parts. Replacing the FCG with a US made one eliminates 3 countable parts. That is 11 parts. Replacing the OME stock with a US made one eliminates another. That is 10 countable foreign parts (provided no other foreign countable parts are added) and is a compliant rifle. So unless the pistol grip is not US made the rifle is compliant.

Even if there is a 922(r) violation, that law only imposes a penalty on the person who manufactured the rifle, so you are definitely good to go since you bought it already set up that way.

First, let's at least use the right language. The law uses the word assemble not manufacture. Second, I've read at least one ATF interpretation where inserting the magazine is considered assembling. This actually makes some sense if the magazine body, floor plate, and follower are countable parts.

Here is the law:

(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to--

18 U.S.C.A. § 922

I mostly see the 16" but I think the 308 round really needs 18+ to fully stabilize.

It benefits from some added velocity with the longer tube but bullets stabilize just fine from a 16" barrel. You might have an issue if you use really heavy bullets given the twist rate of saigas but that is true for the longer barrel as well.

 

[csspecs]

Just for the sake of arguments here is my rifle.



It started at 14 imported parts like all other saiga rifles

However it has a US trigger group (-3 = 11)
It does have an imported pistol grip (+1 = 12)
But since I use US mags I'm fine (-3 = 9)
I can even use my factory mag as I have the replacement internals (+1 = 10).
(sorry I don't have the new replacement internal parts sets available yet).

I make mags so I get asked the 922r questions a lot. I put all the imported parts on my own rifle to show what you can do.

 

[Adam123]

I just love how the 922R Police can take any thread downhill. I am all for keeping firearms 100% legal even though it's a rather idiotic law, but you 922R guys are very annoying. This crap should be kept to PMs so that the thread can stay on topic.

 

[mshootnit]

I agree: it's no skin off anyone else's nose here where the rifle stands with regard to 922r. And the threads do go downhill.

 

[CONNEX 3300]

Not to derail the thread, but;
M1key, what scope do you have on your saiga? I have the same mount and I am looking for a scope.

 

[M1key]

Not to derail the thread, but;
M1key, what scope do you have on your saiga? I have the same mount and I am looking for a scope.

That's actually an Aimpoint 9000SC 4MOA Red Dot. I do sometimes mount a Leupold or Burris 4X scope.

SC