Samco Global M1916 Spanish Mauser

[Marlin270]

Has anyone gotten the back-ordered M1916 Spanish Mauser from Samco Global in the last year or so? I have had mine on order for over a year. Last winter they sent me an email saying they were shipping within two weeks, but I never got anything. When I contact them all I get is "they are still on backorder."

They say "good" condition on their site. How did yours look?

I held one in my hands at the local gun show last weekend and I almost bought it.

TIA

 

[RP88]

sounds like you'd be better off buying locally.

It's one thing to wait 3-6 months for an AR during the panic, but to wait on an old mauser rifle that long when you can find them fairly easily?

I'd cancel the order and go buy somewhere else.

 

[leadcounsel]

I ordered on literally 3 years ago and it's been on back order that long! Vaporware IMO. They should remove it from their site.

 

[wlewisiii]

I'd rather they finally get the surplus 7 Mauser that's been on backorder forever... Sheesh

William

 

[Marlin270]

Yikes. That's what I was afraid of.

>I ordered on literally 3 years ago and it's been on back order that long! Vaporware IMO. They should remove it from their site.

 

[NCsmitty]

Welcome to THR, Marlin270.

It's probably just as well, as the 1916 Spanish Mauser is based on a pre-98 action, and has design limits due to that fact.
I suggest putting it behind you and getting one of the VZ-24 or 24/47 Mauser rifles that are available at several of the reputable dealers handling them.
You will not regret getting a 98 style rifle with the much improved safety features that made them famous. And you won't have to wait a year.

For instance.

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...atching-bolt,-8mm-/cPath/290/products_id/1334




NCsmitty

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

Over a year backorder on a 80 yo gun? It's not like they are waiting for them to come off the assembly line. They either got them or they don't.

 

[Maj Dad]

I bought one of the 308s about 10 years ago and it wouldn't feed worth a damn - tinkered, polished, tuned, cussed to no avail. Sold it and wouldn't have another one. I had a 7mm about 40 years ago that I sporterized with Williams sights & a nice stock - shot like a dream and never once hiccuped feeding. I wish I still had that one...

BTW, they had them displayed at the NRA Annual Meeting - same old guns.

 

[Oceans]

Thats funny Maj. Dad, I knew a correctional officer in the late '80s, who had one of them in what was supposed to be .308. This guy loved that rifle like it was a 1930s model 70. He talked about it constantly, shot it every time he went to the range and even bought an expensive case to haul it around in. I was always leery of a 1893 action chambered in .308. I was told that the Guardia Mauser was chambered for a very similar Spanish round, and not the NATO 7.62x51, and that this Spanish round was loaded to lower pressures. I do not know if this is true, maybe someone on the board does? I will say, that the rifle is handy, and nice looking.

 

[theonlyrealperson]

Thats funny Maj. Dad, I knew a correctional officer in the late '80s, who had one of them in what was supposed to be .308. This guy loved that rifle like it was a 1930s model 70. He talked about it constantly, shot it every time he went to the range and even bought an expensive case to haul it around in. I was always leery of a 1893 action chambered in .308. I was told that the Guardia Mauser was chambered for a very similar Spanish round, and not the NATO 7.62x51, and that this Spanish round was loaded to lower pressures. I do not know if this is true, maybe someone on the board does? I will say, that the rifle is handy, and nice looking.

Oceans - It is true, as I found out today, sadly.

I've had my 1916 Spanish Guardia Mauser from Samco for about 20 years now. Took it deer hunting every year until last year, when I heard about the same thing you did. I shot .308 rounds out of it.

Finally got the headspace checked by a gunsmith, and - well, the bolt locked EASILY on "no-go". And we're talking like butter. I snapped the firing pin and will have it hanging on the wall of my office soon.

 

[Oceans]

Well, that is too bad, the Guardia Mauser is a handy rifle, and you did get a lot of use out of yours. You took the correct action, much better to be safe, than suffer a Ka boom with a high power rifle ctg. The only other options I have read, were to load the .308 down when shooting it in these Mausers, but I don't want a rifle around that is not chambered properly for what most people think is a different round. I also question those Spanish steels in their Mausers, and especially in their '93 actions of which I have zero interest in.

 

[nalioth]

Here we go again with the myths . . .


Safety testing the 1916 Guardia Civil Mauser - H. P. White labs say it's safe to shoot

 

[Oceans]

Here we go again with the myths . . .

Here we go with you not reading his post, It is not a "myth" that his bolt closed easily on a "No Go" gauge. You can shoot a .308 Winchester all day long out of your 93 Guardia Mauser if you have one that is up to you, but he took prudent action disabling his.

 

[Jim Watson]

Finally got the headspace checked by a gunsmith, and - well, the bolt locked EASILY on "no-go". And we're talking like butter. I snapped the firing pin and will have it hanging on the wall of my office soon.

Was the headspace ok when you got it?
Was the excessive headspace due to misfit, wear, or battering?

 

[nalioth]

Here we go again with the myths . . .

Here we go with you not reading his post, It is not a "myth" that his bolt closed easily on a "No Go" gauge. You can shoot a .308 Winchester all day long out of your 93 Guardia Mauser if you have one that is up to you, but he took prudent action disabling his.

Context is everything. Discussion boards offer linear interaction.

Maybe the post right above my "myth" post might shed some light on what it's referring to?

 

[NCsmitty]

Regardless of the pseudo-advertisement test of the 1916 Guardia mauser, there are too many good M98 Mausers around for me to put my face next to a pre-98 Mauser of dubious metallurgy, and fire rounds of ammo with a SAAMI spec of 62,000 PSI.

I have a M38 Swede Mauser that has probably the finest steel ever used in small ring Mausers, and I would not trust it to be rebarreled to 308 Win. It would exceed the design limits inherent to the action in the original caliber.

The 1916 Guardia's are safe in their original caliber of 7mm Mauser, and safe if the 308 is handloaded to less than 47,000 PSI.
IMO, constant shooting of full power 308 Win loads in them is taking a chance that I wouldn't consider.



NCsmitty

 

[theonlyrealperson]

Here we go again with the myths . . .


Safety testing the 1916 Guardia Civil Mauser - H. P. White labs say it's safe to shoot

Listen, I wish it wasn't the case. I loved that rifle - it was the first gun I ever owned. It's not a myth to me.

I saw the bolt close on "no-go" myself.

And I am pretty sure my old man had the headspace checked when I first received the rifle in the '80s, and it passed. (If he had it checked and it didn't pass, and gave it to me anyway, I guess I should be asking questions about my old man.)

It wasn't from misuse, or intentional misuse anyway. I have never shot surplus or home-loads out of it. Mostly Federal or Winchester soft points.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have a M38 Swede Mauser that has probably the finest steel ever used in small ring Mausers, and I would not trust it to be rebarreled to 308 Win.

The Swedes did it themselves. I had a Carl Gustav target rifle on a 1912 '96 action. I did not keep it long enough to test its durability but it was a good shooter in the short run.

Kimber imported a bunch of Swedes. They sold the ones with the best barrels in 6.5 and rebarrelled others to .308, .243, and .22-250. What do you think their lawyers had to say about that?

 

[nalioth]

My post of the G&A article is not in response to the "bolt closing on the no-go gauge", but to the comment about "Spanish steel in their Mausers".

I have no arguments with no-go gauges, but I do have a problem with the myths of "all Spanish guns are crap". While I don't condone "paid-advertising-as-article", one can't argue with the independent testing of H. P. White Labs (or did the G&A writer make that part up, too?).

 

[Slamfire]

Originally Posted by nalioth
Here we go again with the myths . . .


Safety testing the 1916 Guardia Civil Mauser - H. P. White labs say it's safe to shoot

Myth?

If the rifle was sold by SAMCO with excessive headspace, then it was unsafe at the time of sale.

If the rifle developed excessive headspace from use, then it was actually unsafe at the time of sale, but it took time for the latent defect to reveal itself.

Either way, unsafe.

Obviously SAMCO sent a number of M1916's to HP White. We don't know if the receivers tested were late model or early model. We don't know if the rifles were rebuilt from 1893's or were new M1916's.

Lot sampling makes the assumption that the samples tested are representative of the lot.

But is this case, is it true? Was Spanish quality control so good that decades of production, decades of rebuilds, that we can believe a small test sample represents the entire production?

That is a matter of faith.

The purpose of the sited infomercial was to give just enough information so that the reader would buy a SAMCO M1916.

 

[nalioth]

Please read the whole thread.

My "myth" comment had nothing to do with the head space.


I know it's hard sometime to read through the whole thread and not just respond to a particular post, but reading the whole thread first can explain things a bit more.

Oh, the 1893 Spanish Mauser was produced through 1943. The 1916 Guardia Civil and FR-7 rifles are built on these (they did not have their own "special" receiver made in 1916 or any other time).

 

[nathan]

Excessive headspace on these , huh. Quite notorious. WOuld be better to get a Yugo Mauser rifle, cheap and most are new . 8 mm SP ammo are quite plentiful, too .

 

[Oceans]

Naolith, also there is this, regarding the 7.62 CETME round that the rifle was intended to fire in its rechambering from 7 MM Mauser, which is different in pressure from the 7.62 NATO. This from an article on the development of the G3 "The resulting CETME Model A was chambered for the 7.62x51mm CETME cartridge which was identical in chamber dimensions but had a reduced-power load compared to the 7.62mm NATO round." Now Yes the Guardia will chamber and fire the NATO or .308 Winchester round, but I certainly question repeated firings in that rifle. Is the rifle "crap", no it's not. I would LOVE to have one in 7 MM Mauser but not in 7.62 NATO or 8 mm Mauser. Like others have stated, if you want a .308 there are far better and safer choices out there.

 

[desidog]

We've covered the .308Win v. 7.62 CETME pressure issues in a few other threads. The people I've talked to who have studied up on the subject and weighed the odds are not still shooting full power loads.

I have an FR-7, which is the same action rebarreled with a CETME barrel. I shoot 7.62x25 Tokarev ammo through MCAce adapters. Or "Reduced Recoil" .308win rounds, which have performance like a 30-30. I would not fire .308 through it; and, although 7.62 NATO is lower pressure than 308, i'm skeptical of that too.

Any kind of fun a couple hundred dollar gun and cheap ammo can give you will be drastically offset by it blowing up in your face and your spending a year fighting your insurance company between bouts of reconstructive surgery.

I picked up a VZ24 a while back; i'd recommend the same. With the two actions next to each other, you can really see the difference in sturdiness, not to mention an additional locking lug. Also, if you want a Spaniard and the best of both worlds, look for an FR-8, which has the 98 3-lug action.

 

[Oceans]

I agree desidog, even though authorities do argue on the matter, with one camp saying that the early converted 7.62 Mausers were basically intended to fire the a lower pressure version of the 7.62 NATO and the other camp saying that they were intended to fire the full NATO round, all would agree that the rifle was never intended to shoot .308 Winchester commercial sporting loads.