Saturday Night Specials?

[PILMAN]

Just curious, I've heard the term referred to cheap guns before. Few questions

1) Are they legal? (I live in Florida)

2) Are they as unreliable as people claim and are they really more dangerous to the person firing it then the person on the receiving end?

3) Would it be an ok first gun?

4) What exactly fits the definition besides a cheap gun as a Saturday Night Special?


Thanks.

 

[Smith357]

This page can explain it in far more detail than can I.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_special

 

[PILMAN]

Thanks.

 

[EddieCoyle]

In answer to your questions:

1. Yes.

2. This has been exaggerated. While a cheap, poorly maintained handgun is more likely to fail (and possibly injure the shooter) than a quality, well maintained arm, it happens infrequently.

3. No. Save your money and get something decent. Cheap guns (like the Raven, Lorcin, Roscoe, etc) are unreliable, inaccurate, and prone to breakage and failure. You are much better off with a used S&W revolver, police trade-in automatic, or one of the Ruger .22's. These guns are good values and good first guns.

4. "Cheap and small" pretty much nails it. There's really no formal definition of a Saturday night special.

 

[Quaamik]

The term can refer to anything from ultra cheap, marginaly reliable guns that are not suitable for anything but last ditch defense, to any small framed short barreled revolver, to any pistol with a barrel less than 3 inches and a pricetag less than $400. It all depends on who your talking to.

My personal opinion:
If you are refering to a Lorcin or Raven Semi auto, I'd avoid them.
Kel Tek makes some good little guns that fairly low priced.
Used snubnosed revolvers (2 1/2" or shorter barrels) can be a great deal. Stick with Ruger, S&W, Colt, Taurus & Rossi.
Stick to .22LR, .38 Special, .38 Special+P or 9mm.
.380 is marginal (too high a price & too marginal availability for good ammo)
.32 is too high priced and uncommon for the balistics it generates.
.25ACP doesn't have a significant advantage over .22LR, but is far more expensive.

 

[ABTOMAT]

The guns most famous for this description were the potmetal autos imported in the '50s and '60s. Both dangerous and unreliable. Newer ones like Ravens are just unreliable. I'd think the only places they'd be illegal are states with lists like CA and MA.

 

[Zen21Tao]

It is also worth noting that the term "saturday night special" (like other forms of gun control) is believed by many to have its roots in the racist attempt to disarm poor blacks who could only afford cheap guns to defend themselves against the KKK.

Courtesy of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_special

Some believe that the term derives from "Niggertown Saturday Nights."[7] In an essay titled "Gun Grabbers: Masters of the New Plantation," Vin Suprynowicz argues that the term developed from police slang: "... the origin of this term for the inexpensive handguns most useful for self-defense to a black or Hispanic resident of the inner city is the old, derogatory police slang 'Niggertown Saturday Night,' referring to inner city weekend violence not meriting much attention, since it mainly occurred among the black folk." [8] Among the authors citing some variation of this same origin are William R Tonso, professor emeritus at the University of Evansville and the author of many articles arguing that gun control is a racist plot by whites against the black race [9]; Barry Bruce-Briggs, author of "The Great American Gun War"; and Dave Kopel, editor-in-chief of Journal on Firearms and Public Policy.

The earliest law prohibiting inexpensive handguns were enacted in Tennessee, in the form of the "Army and Navy" law, passed in 1879, shortly after the 14th amendment and Civil Rights Act; previous laws invalidated by the consitutional amendment had stated that black freedmen could not own or carry any manner of firearm. The Army and Navy law prohibited the sale of "belt or pocket pistols, or revolvers, or any other kind of pistols, except army or navy pistols," which were prohibitively expensive for black freedmen and poor whites to purchase.

I agree with others that junk guns are unreliable and poorly made an should only be used as a "last resorts" weapon if you can't afford a better more reliable gun.

For a first gun I would recommend a .22LR. The advantage is that it will help you get acustom to proper shooting techniques without developing the infamous flinch. From there move up to a 9mm or better round. I tend to like .40S&W, .45ACP and 10mm.

As for which gun is best to go with, I would visit some gun stores and see what feels best to you then go to a range and rent as many guns as possible to try out. Ultimately go with what feels best in you hands and has the features (safety, decocker, etc.) you want.

 

[The_Shootist]

Cheap?

Heck I have a Zastava Model 70 - a .32ACP 3 1/2" bbl pocket pistol for $ 99
Inexpensive, but like most "Com-Bloc" guns, not cheap. Rugged and reliable, Ilike to refer to it as my only SNS.

 

[kjeff50cal]

The term can refer to anything from ultra cheap, marginaly reliable guns that are not suitable for anything but last ditch defense, to any small framed short barreled revolver, to any pistol with a barrel less than 3 inches and a pricetag less than $400. It all depends on who your talking to.

To that I say I think more then a few gun companies price their cheap marginaly reliable pistols & revolvers on the plus side of $400 to avoid being a SNS and also to increase their bottom line. BTW there was discussion when the first Glocks came out to include them as SNS(because of their plastic recievers).

 

[Oleg Volk]

The only really dangerous guns I've seen were made by RG in Germany (1960s .38spl revolvers of very dubious quality).

 

[Husker1911]

RG made plenty of rimfires, too. They make good slip weights while fishing. Pass your line through the trigger guard, when the catfish picks up the bait, the line passes thru the trigger guard, and the fish doesn't realize he's been hooked until it's too late. For heaven's sake, don't actually shoot an RG!

OK, seriously now. The money you spend on a inexpensive, unreliable gun will be wasted. Don't waste your money.

 

[EddieCoyle]

According to the local media, a "Saturday night special" is any handgun; just as any long gun is an "assault rifle".

 

[atlctyslkr]

This ANTI site is pretty accurate when it comes to laws

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=fl

The term Saturday Night Special is a catch all term. I was always told it was applied to a gun that was well worn and used and had been modified in some way (cutting down a police issue 38).

A good judgement is would a resonable person use it for reliable defense or law enforcement back up? I wouldn't trust my life to some POS I had bought off the street for less than $100 that was out of time or skipped. Zip guns and other homeade items fall into this category as well. If you couldn't register it in one of those states like NY it's probably a SNS. As far as I know snub noses are legal in places like that (with the proper paperwork!).

Cops can confiscate your gun with little to no reason in pretty much any state. If it's deemed "unsafe" you probably won't get it back no matter if there is a SNS law or not.

 

[mp510]

RG made plenty of rimfires, too. They make good slip weights while fishing. Pass your line through the trigger guard, when the catfish picks up the bait, the line passes thru the trigger guard, and the fish doesn't realize he's been hooked until it's too late. For heaven's sake, don't actually shoot an RG!

The rimfires are not too bad, for plinking. The downsides, include the hammer mounted firing pins, and sporadic misfires, especially in double action.

 

[PILMAN]

How about AMT .380 would that be classed as a junk gun?

 

[Zen21Tao]

If I recall correctly the most recent “Saturday night special” ban was a ban on “junk guns” manufactured by the so-called “Ring of Fire” manufacturers in California. In this case it really was a ban on social class.

The Ring of Fire manufacturers were Jennings (Lorcin), Raven, Davis, Bryco, and Phoenix. They made guns that ranged from $38-$96. They were of poor quality but they were better than nothing for people who couldn’t afford more expensive guns.

The funniest thing (to me) is how the gun-control lobby used the excuse that these junk guns were the most common guns to end up at a crime scene. Well duh, if the socio-economic level of the area limits the people of that area to only afford these cheap guns then that is going to be what they buy and subsequently what guns fall into criminal hands. Every time I hear this “we need to take guns out of law abiding citizens hands so criminals can’t get them” excuse I want to bi*** slap a liberal.


Here is a story from 1997 on the Ring of Fire manufacturers. Since this story California got its way and cheap guns have been banned.
http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/nation/guns/part2/gunsring.html

 

[PILMAN]

Your right about that it's better than having nothing. I thought most criminals prefer reliable guns anyways? I figured they steal what they can get their hands on and it doesn't really matter to them.

 

[mp510]

How about AMT .380 would that be classed as a junk gun?

I can't speak for the .380, but the Automags have a good reputation, sans trigger pull weight. I have also heard good things about some of their .45's.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Cops can confiscate your gun with little to no reason in pretty much any state. If it's deemed "unsafe" you probably won't get it back no matter if there is a SNS law or not.

I've never heared of this. An LEO can confiscate your firearm because he thinks it is "unsafe"? Can you point to any documentation on this?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Saturday Night Special questions

1) Are they legal? (I live in Florida)

2) Are they as unreliable as people claim and are they really more dangerous to the person firing it then the person on the receiving end?

3) Would it be an ok first gun?

4) What exactly fits the definition besides a cheap gun as a Saturday Night Special?

1. Legality depends on location.

2. Injury from Saturday Night Specials to users are usually cuts from
shaved lead; Robert Sherrill, anti-gunner who wrote a book "The
Saturday Night Special" (with a subtitle just barely shorter than the
subtitle to Edgar A. Poe's "Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym, of
Nantucket"), admitted that injuries to user from SNSs were slight
with no known deaths.

3. NO. While I have encountered reliable and accurate Ravens and
Jennings J22s, those are individual guns. And they would not stand
up to thousands of rounds like a good Ruger .22 pistol would.

4. SNS is usually a pocket-suzed pistol suitable for concealed carry
and very short range use against man-sized targets. I have heard the
Smith&Wesson M36 Chief's Special called a SNS. The term is so vague
it is meaningless.

The 1968 Gun Control Act instituted a points system for imported
firearms to keep out SNSs like the RG10 .22 short revolver that
looked like a cast zinc blank pistol (it also kept out the Walther PPK
resulting in the PPK/S model using a slightly longer grip frame).

Today pistols on the market are better quality, last longer with
indifferent maintenance and are more reliable and deadly than
the old SNS. Poor folk have to spend more of their grocery money
for self defense and when the guns get stolen and circulate on the
street, the buyer gets a better quality product.

 

[Essex County]

SNS was a buzz word around 1970. It was applied to revolvers with sub-4" barrels as well as " meltable " handguns of dubious quality. Let's ignore the term completely.............Essex

 

[RyanM]

I's been working on that SNS article on Wiki a lot. Fortunately, it's stabilized recently. Used to be hit with all kinds of "NPOV" crap just because it told the truth.

I suppose all the articles on geography get bombarded with "NPOV" complaints and edits from the Flat Earth Society?

 

[JohnBT]

www.blackmanwithagun.com/site/dbpage.asp?page_id=140000780&sec_id=140000845

"1870 Tennessee First "Saturday Night Special" economic handgun ban passed. In the first legislative session in which they gained control, white supremacists passed "An Act to Preserve the Peace and Prevent Homicide," which banned the sale of all handguns except the expensive "Army and Navy model handgun" which whites already owned or could afford to buy, and blacks could not. ("Gun Control: White Man's Law," William R. Tonso, Reason, December 1985) Upheld in Andrews v. State, 50 Tenn. (3 Heisk.) 165, 172 (1871) (GMU CR LJ, p. 74) "The cheap revolvers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries were referred to as 'Suicide Specials,' the 'Saturday Night Special' label not becoming widespread until reformers and politicians took up the gun control cause during the 1960s. The source of this recent concern about cheap revolvers, as their new label suggest, has much in common with the concerns of the gun-law initiators of the post-Civil War South. As B. Bruce-Briggs has written in the Public Interest, `It is difficult to escape the conclusion that the 'Saturday Night Special' is emphasized because it is cheap and being sold to a particular class of people. The name is sufficient evidence -- the reference is to 'niggertown Saturday night.'" ("Gun Control: White Man's Law," William R. Tonso, Reason, December 1985) "
__________________

Mr. Blanchard is a member of THR.

Kenn Blanchard
"Black Man With A Gun"
www.blackmanwithagun.com
Pure Urban Inspiration

 

[gezzer]

1970's anti gun BUZZWORD,

Any short barreled handgun were called that. Good for nothing but killing.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[Overman]

I want a true, textbook example of a so-called "Saturday Night Special" to complete my collection. A Raven, I suppose, or something similar.

As it stands, I've got S&W's, Winchester, GLOCK, Ruger, etc, etc, in all shapes, sizes, and purposes. But a Raven would fill out my collection. What gun collection would be complete without such a specimin?