Why people buy the "Saturday Night Specials"?

[highlander 5]

The "cheapest " pistol I own is a a Walther PP in 32 auto paid the princely sum of $200 for it back in the early 80s. Don't know what the same pistol would cost now but at that time it was what I could afford. As many have said living on a very limited challenge. My mother gets by on $1000 a month and between rent,utilities,food and the like she doesn't have much left for extras. Or to put it in a nut shell if it took 10 cents to go round the world she couldn't get out of
sight. I don't own a HI Point nor do I wish to but that doesn't make them a "bad" firearm,at 3 am when something goes bump and you don't know what it is a $150 handgun that goes bang is just as good as the $3000 racegun that also goes bang.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Hi-Points are actually quality firearms for a certain definition of quality. That is, they are reliable and reasonably accurate, services which they provide at a very low price.

The tradeoffs is that they are aesthetically ugly, have the ergonomics of a brick, have low capacity, heavy weight due to the blowback operation, and internet gun experts everywhere will mock Hi-Point owners widely.

The Jimenez/Phoenix/Lorcin guns are a different story. They are poorly made and unreliable. Actually not even legal in my state under our "Saturday Night Special" law, which classifies said guns in part based on the melting point of the frame/slide material, which in the case of the Lorcin-type junk guns (I believe all three brand names are actually the same company in various guises and times) is some sort of zinc alloy pot metal.

 

[Gun Master]

^^^^^ I totally agree !

 

[Merle1]

Hi-Points are actually quality firearms for a certain definition of quality. That is, they are reliable and reasonably accurate, services which they provide at a very low price.

The tradeoffs is that they are aesthetically ugly, have the ergonomics of a brick, have low capacity, heavy weight due to the blowback operation, and internet gun experts everywhere will mock Hi-Point owners widely.

The Jimenez/Phoenix/Lorcin guns are a different story. They are poorly made and unreliable. Actually not even legal in my state under our "Saturday Night Special" law, which classifies said guns in part based on the melting point of the frame/slide material, which in the case of the Lorcin-type junk guns (I believe all three brand names are actually the same company in various guises and times) is some sort of zinc alloy pot metal.

In addition you can expect reduced durability, so these are intended for self defense - not for competition. All in all, it's worth the trade off!

 

[Gun Master]

Hi-Points are actually quality firearms for a certain definition of quality. That is, they are reliable and reasonably accurate, services which they provide at a very low price.

The tradeoffs is that they are aesthetically ugly, have the ergonomics of a brick, have low capacity, heavy weight due to the blowback operation, and internet gun experts everywhere will mock Hi-Point owners widely.

The Jimenez/Phoenix/Lorcin guns are a different story. They are poorly made and unreliable. Actually not even legal in my state under our "Saturday Night Special" law, which classifies said guns in part based on the melting point of the frame/slide material, which in the case of the Lorcin-type junk guns (I believe all three brand names are actually the same company in various guises and times) is some sort of zinc alloy pot metal.

I once saw a YouTube on a Phoenix .22, that extolled its virtues = "It hasn't blown up or melted yet".

That is not anywhere near the good qualities of a High-Point.

I agree with you Madcap_Magician and Merle1.

 

[Captain O]

This is simply a way of discriminating against the poor, which are the primary purchasers of these firearms. They are the most probable victims of violent crime. Given the drug use and gang violence of those neighborhoods, these arms will serve quite well in that capacity.

It sure as the devil beats beng killed.

 

[medalguy]

I have a friend who is a dealer and specializes in all of these low-end guns. We frequently set up next to each other so I see the customers he sells to. Many are low income folks wanting something for protection or just to shoot at tin cans for fun and they don't have much to spend. Smiths & Colts are way out of their league. So, a High Point or another inexpensive gun is just right for them. A few weeks ago he sold over 30 of these guns in 2 days. IIRC High Points have a life-time warranty. There is a need for low-end guns.

 

[Shaq]

The LGSs around here, most outright refuse to carry the cheapie guns. I asked why, and they said those guns attract the "wrong" clientele.

If he meant "gang members" he's mistaken. Even they have better taste.

 

[Shaq]

I have a friend who is a dealer and specializes in all of these low-end guns. We frequently set up next to each other so I see the customers he sells to. Many are low income folks wanting something for protection or just to shoot at tin cans for fun and they don't have much to spend. Smiths & Colts are way out of their league. So, a High Point or another inexpensive gun is just right for them. A few weeks ago he sold over 30 of these guns in 2 days. IIRC High Points have a life-time warranty. There is a need for low-end guns.

Yes, Hi Points do have a lifetime warranty. It means you'll spend your lifetime shipping it in for repair.

 

[Merle1]

Yes, Hi Points do have a lifetime warranty. It means you'll spend your lifetime shipping it in for repair.

So how many times have you had to ship yours in for repairs?

 

[CapnMac]

OP is reflecting upon his own experience--and to some extent, "or"-community- reflex to the negative terminology.

See, when I hear (or read) Saturday Night Special, my mind goes back to 1967 or 68, and going to the pawn shop with my uncle (when we needed to bust concrete or the like, he'd go get a circular saw or hammer drill from the pawn shop). In the case by the register would be 5 or six tatty revovlers, often with princely sums like $10 or $12 attached to those.

How that was, wasa that those were '20s built Italian and Spanish no-roll-mark, often no manufacturer's name revolvers in all sorts of oddball calibers. Often "bubba-ed" into calibers you could buy at Gibson's or Ace hardware. Some of those probably would not have held a magnet anywhere but maybe a grip screw.

There would be a similar crop of "derringer" pistols, too, again in all sorts of screwball calibers (like .32 short).

We've got three pages debating the merits of $150-250 firearms, and really, the SNS were $25-50 arms. Only had to go bang the once (or be flashed the once). Probably still a market for the bottom of the barrel stufff--ther are too many out there whoe keep a gun and never, ever, not once, shoot the thhing.

 

[CajunBass]

I remember a time when I was so broke I couldn't afford a RG-22 or a Raven 25. They sold for about thirty bucks in those days. I was a couple of years out of high school, just married with a car payment, and a brand spanking new mortgage. I really WANTED a Smith & Wesson 357, but those might as well have cost a million dollars. I couldn't even afford to think about buying one of those.

But a Raven or an RG-22? I could at least wish for one. A couple of nights of overtime and maybe...just maybe...I'd have never fired it. Didn't have a place to shoot back then, and had never even heard of a "shooting range" except in Field & Stream or Outdoor Life magazine. Somewhere else and a long way away. Couldn't have afforded it anyway.

Didn't happen though. When the overtime came in, so did another bill. It was maybe ten years or so before I got my first handgun and it was a Smith & Wesson.

But the Ravens, RG's, H&R's and such, and the Shooters Bible, kept the dream alive.

You'll never catch me looking down my nose at them.

 

[jad0110]

Simply put: sometimes cheap guns can be just as much fun as the pricey ones .

 

[243winxb]

The Raven 25 acp or Jennings 22lr were so low cost years ago, you could run a special sale. Buy a Ruger SBH and get a free Raven or Jennings. (Not really free, wholesale price added to selling price of the Rugers.) They buy because of low price.

 

[Merle1]

OP is reflecting upon his own experience--and to some extent, "or"-community- reflex to the negative terminology.

See, when I hear (or read) Saturday Night Special, my mind goes back to 1967 or 68, and going to the pawn shop with my uncle (when we needed to bust concrete or the like, he'd go get a circular saw or hammer drill from the pawn shop). In the case by the register would be 5 or six tatty revovlers, often with princely sums like $10 or $12 attached to those.

How that was, wasa that those were '20s built Italian and Spanish no-roll-mark, often no manufacturer's name revolvers in all sorts of oddball calibers. Often "bubba-ed" into calibers you could buy at Gibson's or Ace hardware. Some of those probably would not have held a magnet anywhere but maybe a grip screw.

There would be a similar crop of "derringer" pistols, too, again in all sorts of screwball calibers (like .32 short).

We've got three pages debating the merits of $150-250 firearms, and really, the SNS were $25-50 arms. Only had to go bang the once (or be flashed the once). Probably still a market for the bottom of the barrel stufff--ther are too many out there whoe keep a gun and never, ever, not once, shoot the thhing.

Don't forget about inflation!

 

[MachIVshooter]

I once saw a YouTube on a Phoenix .22, that extolled its virtues = "It hasn't blown up or melted yet".

The HP-22 is actually a fun little plinker. While I don't consider it a serious defensive firearm for more than one reason, the one I have always goes bang, and is actually quite accurate with a decent trigger. I paid $116 for it about 10 years ago, and later picked up the " range kit" for about $30.

We've got three pages debating the merits of $150-250 firearms, and really, the SNS were $25-50 arms.

Account for inflation. $30 in 1968 is $204 in 2016

 

[Tallball]

My first wife and I were in our early 20's. We didn't have two pennies to rub together - we were working hard to put her through school. She was from a very rough neighborhood. When we visited her parents at night we would often hear gunfire. "Night ladies" and crackheads were everywhere.

Her dad was appalled that I didn't own a centerfire handgun or a shotgun (everyone around there had both, and burglar bars). I didn't know much about guns. He recommended to me a Davis 380 and got it for me cheap. It didn't work all the time. Then my co-worker offered me his "in the process of divorce" brother's recently-purchased revolver at cost. I had just gotten my tax refund or something. It was a Taurus 66 357 magnum. The fit and finish weren't perfect, but it went bang every time. I had to use it for SD twice.

Later on when we had a little more money I lucked into a $149 brand-new Makarov in 380. Between that and the Model 66 we felt pretty safe.

The Taurus was eventually stolen, but I still have the Mak. It's nice to have the money to buy a fancier gun, but thank goodness there are cheaper ones that work.

 

[kBob]

In ote the number of folks saying that gang bangers and crooks have better taste than what folks are calling "Sat-day Nite Specials"

Perhaps evidence rooms have changed in the past 20 years, but as any of the old LEOs here abouts could tell you they were full of cheap guns 20 years ago.

In fact, at the height of the original "assault weapons" assault in the late 1980's a local Police chief took to frieghtening the populace with tales of "machine gun fights in the streets of our city every night" and his property room full of assault weapons. He mistakenly made the comment at a meeting I was at that he would be happy for a couple of us to tour his evidence locker and see his collection of machine guns " and all that stuff" He had a box of junk he carried to women's club and garden club meetings and the like , but had neglected for some reason to bring to our gun club meeting.

We examined his box or horrors which included a surrendered AKs from a traffic stop (owner was bullied into giving it and no crime other than a burned out tail light, great thing to search a vehicle over) a Semi auto UZI which admittedly some one had cut the barrel to short on and somehow gotten a hold of a Sionics Suppressor that was not working on, (examining the suppressor I found it so full of carbon that the spiral defefussers those are famous for were packed solid), and one "real" (technically) machine gun, a Mac 11 pistol open bolt assembled with no trigger mech and no mag catch (one wedged the mag in place with an allen wrench, jerked back the bolt and let it go and the whole mag dumped, scary that) and a sawn off .22 bolt action box magazine rifle and single shot 16 gauge sawn off that had the stock bolt protruding from the sawn off stock.

There were a few nice pistols we looked at but by a three to one margin every pistol and revolver we saw WOULD have been called a SNS by most folks here.

I was surprised that late to see a large portion of seized revolvers were still break tops and all we saw represented only the last three years before we visited. There were plenty of ring of fire guns in the place as well and one of the Stallards which was the for runner of the Hipoints, a blowback that used .45 ACP from 1911 mags (and I almost bought one of those after shooting one myself to go with my Colt and Star .45ACPs.)

Saturday Night Special as a term is a good bit older than many think, even before the debates for GCA '68. It was the cheap nickel or Chrome gun, maybe with faux Mother of Pearl grips that one carried on Saturday night when out Juking as much to impress the Ladies with your bad self as anything else. Tucked in a pocket or belt behind the front pockets it could be flashed discreetly to tell the ladies you was a hot one and tell the boys that might want to be bad not to start a gun fight with a knife. The fact that it was cheap meant that if, and, or when you had a brush with John Law you could ditch the thing and if one of your buddies did not recover it or you find it Sunday Morning then you were not out that much.

Shoot, Leroy was hardly the only one with "a thirty two gun in his pocket for fun"

Sort of like BBQ guns with the more affluent folks actually except for that ability to toss it.

As a youth one of the more well off tobacco growers (Cuban Shade Grown not that trash grown in the sun by share croppers) I knew had an RG 22 (short only, and sometimes the chamber and barrel would line up straight) that went with him every where. He once told me it was to get him back to the truck and his shotgun or rifle or to the family car and a rather nice pre number N frame .44 Special,( Nickeled and Pearled BTW).

I rather suspect that in Roman times the poorer of the cities often bought poorly formed iron knives or even bronze razors for protection from the gangs of wandering rich kids with their steel daggers. No doubt some then decried as to who would ever buy a once sharpened bit of cast pot metal for self defense.

Yes, who would even own a palm hammer for defense of cave and family when a knapped piece of imported flint was available?

That was fun.

-kBob

 

[GEM]

The issue is simple. At the gun store, have poorer folks registered for rich gun snobs to buy them something expensive. Certainly, if you have the income to buy some fancy pants gun, you can save up to aid a poor person. Just be sure you follow the rules on declaring it a gift.

Or set up the Salvation Armed Army. Have donation drop offs for the stuff in your safe you haven't shot in a few years. We do that with ordinary stuff in the house. Step up.

 

[benEzra]

My ex-wife's first gun was a $79 Phoexix Arms Raven in .25 ACP. That was literally all we could afford at the time; she was finishing college and I was supporting us both on $918/mo in 1993-1994, so when she wanted a small gun to carry on her person at home, it was that or nothing. She kept it clean and well lubricated and shot it every chance she got, and it turned out to be accurate and never had a single failure of any kind. When we could afford to, she upgraded to a new Glock 19 with Trijicons, a nice holster, and got a carry license. But that Raven served a valuable role at the time.

 

[Jim NE]

The Hi Points are crude...cheap even, but not junk. They can work really well, IMO. Some are more accurate than my Rugers or CZ's, even. But there certainly have been junky guns. I think the Saturday Night Specials of yesteryear were much worse than they are today. I'm talking about the RG .22 revolvers and Jennings pistols, at least based on my personal experience.

Then some of those old companies had lawsuits resulting from the poor quality or design, and I guess they figured it wasn't worth it to make really lousy guns. The Stallard I paid $179 over 20 years ago was nowhere near as nice shooting/functioning as the Hi Points I paid $140-$150 for recently.

But then I see some of those really cheap guns from over 100 years ago -some (but not all) of those top break revolvers, for example - and the Stallard starts looking good by comparison.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Well I know a man that carries a Jimenze 380 in back pocket loaded with ball ammo. Its never jammed and I have seen him draw and shoot it. He will drop you as quick as a Wilson 1911 would. He's the weapon gun delivery system . In my younger days I had a Cheap 38 spl derringer . On a PVT E-2 pay back then was about 1/2 months pay. On my 2nd enlistment 1972. I bought a Colt Commander new 154.95 + tax I was a SGT but still a lot of money. Still have the Commander .

 

[joneb]

If the cheap gun is made of inferior materials it may fail when you need it the most.

 

[wideym]

Twice, I've had people come into the shop I work at to buy a cheapo RG or it's equal because they had their house broken into for a second time and the money they were saving to buy a decent handgun was stolen. I've also heard on many occasions and read on many gun forums to "save up your money to buy a decent handgun". I have been guilty of this myself and have since realized that having any gun is better than no gun when you are under threat and being poor is no excuse for being unarmed.

 

[CajunBass]

If the cheap gun is made of inferior materials it may fail when you need it the most.

That's true. But if it does, you're no worse off than you would be if you had nothing. Well, I suppose at least you have something metallic in your hand to hit with.

On the other hand, it might just do what it's supposed to do and save your bacon.

Beats crying and begging "Please don't hurt me."