Say it ain't so

[RetiredUSNChief]

Buddy said the 06 is on its way out. Told me it's hay day came and went years ago. Said to get a 6.5 creed, 300 win or a 7mm-08. I told him I think I need a new hunting buddy

Good response!

You're not entering your gun in a fashion show, you're hunting! Ain't a popularity contest, either!

Game don't care what takes them down, either!

 

[jdsingleshot]

By 1950, there was a cartridge that would make every diameter bullet go as fast as they go today. Bore capacity and chamber pressure are still factors. We just have a few powders with more useful burning characteristics and a few cartridges with more efficient shapes. And every single new cartridge was marketed with the goal of selling new guns chambered for it.

Last year, I killed a deer with one shot from a .25-20. My '06 is not my favorite rifle, because of recoil, but even it can be loaded down to .30-30 performance. The .30-06 and most other rifles can be loaded to do whatever you want. I carved a new stock for mine, so I will probably never sell it.

 

[d2wing]

Me and a buddy were in a somewhat heated discussion about my ole Savage 110 30-06.
Last week we finished our Elk hunt outside of Flagstaff. This year we were skunked. Saw a few possible bulls, just not what I was looking for.
3 years prior I took a beautiful 6x6 same area at 225 yrd with one hit to the spine. Used 200 grn partitions handloaded. Buddy today told me it was time to ditch my outdated 06 and get a new and better caliber rifle.
Them are fighting words to me. Been toting and shooting the ole Savage for 30 years. It's never left me wanting for more in all my hunts. I've bagged coyotes, bobcat, javalina, whitetail, mule deer, antelope, elk, one smallish black bear and a few other critters. Never needed more than one shot, and all were dropped within 250 yrds.
Buddy said the 06 is on its way out. Told me it's hay day came and went years ago. Said to get a 6.5 creed, 300 win or a 7mm-08. I told him I think I need a new hunting buddy
No way am I taking his flawed advice. My 06 is good as it ever was. Most important, it's reliable and it just plain works.
I'm old school.I hunt with my old Winchester 94 in 30-30 most deer seasons. My main varmint gun is an old Winchester 70 in 257 Roberts, My big game is my 06.

I with you. 30-06 is the standard hunting round that others are compared to. Avoid the man bun. I have switched to the 7-08 because of age and injury and like it. The 30-06 in my safe isn't going away.

 

[gotboostvr]

The question I always ask is, "What will the .29 Super-whizbang do that my .30-06 won't do?"

And the answer is usually, 'Well, it'll have 6 inches less drop at 500 yards and 50 pounds more kinetic energy"

You're not wrong, but most non-magnum cartridges between 26-338 have pretty similar balistics at any range most people would consider taking a shot.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

You're not wrong, but most non-magnum cartridges between 26-338 have pretty similar balistics at any range most people would consider taking a shot.

And at those ranges, the magnum cartridges offer little real advantage.

 

[Varminterror]

I have switched to the 7-08 because of age and injury and like it.

The 7-08 was the man-bun of the previous generation. It wasn’t a cartridge just for women and kids, like the 243win, but smaller, less powder, less power, more efficient, more aerodynamic than the big .30-06, and killed everything just as dead. About as much difference between the 6.5 creed and 7-08 as comparing my old 2014 F-150 with my 2016, or my 2010 before it.

When I built my first 7-08win in 1999, I recall my great-uncle and the gunsmith doing the barrel work that 7-08’s were for “long haired, limpwristed p**sies in bell-bottoms.” Same dudes which had turned me onto the .30-06 originally as a kid, and ironically, the 7x57 Mauser, which that 7-08 was replacing…

Can’t please anybody with anything, it seems.

 

[ACES&8S]

All it amounts to is MARKETING!
No one has to buy the latest -6 point whatever- caliber or the latest modular rifle.
I have AR rifles in 223. And as far as 30-06, I have about 10 of them I guess, don't have a 6mm of any kind.
Got several .308, 7mm08, 8mm Mauser, 45-70 and some other standards while trying to keep the reloading simple.
Rifle and ammo and optic business depends on upgrades or options, to SELL even if they have to
create a new one and start a buzz thru advertising or tv shows presenting it as the -not better but best-
ever created by man. And you can't blame them, like the mob guys say, it's just business.
I don't buy into much, but the ads and tv shows, after a while seem so pushy, even looking at options for a
xmas rifle they all start with -6 point whatever- and never seem to go to the old 7mm Rem Mag or 30-06.
Like they really must be falling out of grace. Or are they being defunded? xxx I hate that word.

 

[3Crows]

I do not see how a .30-06 or .308 or .270 or similar could ever be called obsolete. That is foolish talk. What some of the new players do offer however is the ability to chamber and stabilize long for caliber bullets and that could be useful if Pb bullets are obsoleted by law and we have to use some kinda weird mono-metal bullets. But even then the old standards will get along fine.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The 7-08 was the man-bun of the previous generation. It wasn’t a cartridge just for women and kids, like the 243win, but smaller, less powder, less power, more efficient, more aerodynamic than the big .30-06, and killed everything just as dead. About as much difference between the 6.5 creed and 7-08 as comparing my old 2014 F-150 with my 2016, or my 2010 before it.

But the 7mm-08 hits a definite sweet spot between the 6.5 CM and .308, one that exists when you're talking compact rifles with shorter barrels.

There's a reason it's my preferred cartridge for building the integrals with their effectively ~15-16" barrels. The more overbore 6.5 CM loses too much velocity (140s down to under 2,400 FPS), and the .308 can't drive the heavier bullets with better B.C.s fast enough out of the short tubes. The 7mm-08 is just perfect for this application, able to drive 150 gr. boat tails at 2,500-2,550 FPS. The .308 only manages about another 50-70 FPS with 150s, and .308" 150s are just not on par with .284" 150s. Of course, we build quite a few .308 integrals as well, they perform just fine and make more sense for the guys who don't handload and would be pretty handicapped with the limited 7-08 factory ammo options.

That said, when you don't have barrel length constraints, this advantage is pretty well lost. If you can get the heavier .264" and .308" pills out with respectable velocity going to 22, 24 or even 26" barrels, they do great.

But that's why I have a thing for the 7mm-08. I'm not recoil shy or obsessed with cartridge efficiency, so if I were just shopping normal sporters and wanted a 7mm something or other, it'd be a .280 or 7mm Rem Mag. Those rounds need barrel length, though, so they aren't good candidates for the integrals or compact rifles. Neither is my go-to .25-06, which wouldn't do much better than a .250 Savage out of a 16" tube.


I do have to agree with another reply in this thread that the "hate" for 6.5 CM comes from so many inexperienced shooters/hunters with generally boistrous and perhaps obnoxious personalities proclaiming it the greatest thing since sliced bread and trying to shove it down everyone's throat. It's just another cartridge, one that works fine within it's limitations and is a particularly good fit for some people based on the combination of performance, modest recoil and availability of rifles and ammo. But there is simply no valid reason to go swapping a perfectly good big game rifle you already own for it, and people forcefully suggesting you should are, well........irritating! Hence this entire thread!

 

[Mike J]

I do have to agree with another reply in this thread that the "hate" for 6.5 CM comes from so many inexperienced shooters/hunters with generally boistrous and perhaps obnoxious personalities proclaiming it the greatest thing since sliced bread and trying to shove it down everyone's throat. It's just another cartridge, one that works fine within it's limitations and is a particularly good fit for some people based on the combination of performance, modest recoil and availability of rifles and ammo. But there is simply no valid reason to go swapping a perfectly good big game rifle you already own for it, and people forcefully suggesting you should are, well........irritating! Hence this entire thread!

I believe this paragraph sums up what most are annoyed about pretty well. I honestly have no experience with 6.5 Creedmoor. I suspect this will change soon as a friend is buying a rifle chambered for it & from time to time we get together & shoot each others firearms. I believe any rifle caliber the OP's friend suggested would do the job. The problem is why is his friend trying to tell him to change when he has a rifle & cartridge combination that work well for him? If he is happy with what he has & it does the job he wants it to do leave him alone & let him enjoy his hunt.

 

[Scrapiron45]

The 6.5 CM sure has introduced a lot of young shooters to long range fun.

 

[Frostbite]

The 6.5 CM sure has introduced a lot of young shooters to long range fun.

Certainly. These new shooters often tried .223 before it instead of 12 gauge pump with hunting loads like it might have been the case years earlier. Recoil is not Ebola, but it has to be learned before being enjoyed.

 

[Pat Riot]

I have nothing for or against the 6.5 Creedmoor. For a time I got tired of hearing about it. I am over it now.

I had written a long diatribe about various rounds and why people like them or use them. I deleted it.

It’s bad enough we have our governments and the media working against us at every level. Why do we collectively have to bicker amongst ourselves over minor issues?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I have nothing for or against the 6.5 Creedmoor. For a time I got tired of hearing about it. I am over it now.

I had written a long diatribe about various rounds and why people like them or use them. I deleted it.

It’s bad enough we have our governments and the media working against us at every level. Why do we collectively have to bicker amongst ourselves over minor issues?

And we are becoming more and more like Leftists -- not only do we differ and bicker, but we question the motivation of those who disagree with us, and condemn they for it.

 

[MachIVshooter]

It’s bad enough we have our governments and the media working against us at every level. Why do we collectively have to bicker amongst ourselves over minor issues?

"Spirited" debates betwixt men about the efficacy of a weapon have been going on for as long as we've been making them. It's not indicative of anything but human nature.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

"Spirited" debates betwixt men about the efficacy of a weapon have been going on for as long as we've been making them. It's not indicative of anything but human nature.

I recommend reading "The Debates" -- the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, which were written to support and oppose the proposed Constitution. It's hard to imagine a more serious subject, and one more open to a multitude of differing opinions and issues.

The thing that will strike you is how GENTLEMANLY those debates were -- no one attacked anyone else personally, no one insulted anyone. They confined themselves to the issues and raised and answered serious points. If only we could debate like that nowadays.

 

[Pat Riot]

"Spirited" debates betwixt men about the efficacy of a weapon have been going on for as long as we've been making them. It's not indicative of anything but human nature.

We have only had the internet in nearly every home for the past 2 decades or so. Debate used to be at a sporting goods counter or at gun clubs or the hunting blind face to face. Nowadays it’s not face to face and the end result usually isn’t a friendly slap on the back and a smile. It often becomes bitter oneupmanship these days.

 

[MachIVshooter]

We have only had the internet in nearly every home for the past 2 decades or so. Debate used to be at a sporting goods counter or at gun clubs or the hunting blind face to face. Nowadays it’s not face to face and the end result usually isn’t a friendly slap on the back and a smile. It often becomes bitter oneupmanship these days.

That is true.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I'm sick of these wipper snappers and their swell 30-06.

Get a real cartridge like the 30-40 Krag!!!

 

[Varminterror]

I do have to agree with another reply in this thread that the "hate" for 6.5 CM comes from so many inexperienced shooters/hunters with generally boistrous and perhaps obnoxious personalities proclaiming it the greatest thing since sliced bread and trying to shove it down everyone's throat.

I can’t wait until I actually meet one of these boisterous rabid man bun fanbois which try to shove the 6.5 creed down anyone’s - let alone everyone’s - throats. I’m in dozens of FB groups, moderate a couple even, member at multiple ranges, meet dozens of new competitive shooters every spring, teach classes to a handful more, use a half dozen forums like this daily and thrice as many weekly…

But in the same contexts, I’ve experienced hundreds of Fudds bitching about these non-existent fanbois…

 

[Mosin77]

I love my .30-06. I’m sure the 6.5cm or other new caliber would be pretty much indistinguishable in efficacy, and I won’t be hopping on that bandwagon myself, but if buying one gets a guy out of the house and into the woods, so much the better. The .30-06 is almost the choice of the individualist these days.

 

[marksman13]

I am a fan of variety, so I have hunting rifles chambered in a pretty vast selection of cartridges. I have yet to see a deer or pig survive a good hit from anything from 223 all the way up to 50 BMG. If you are happy with your rifle, keep shooting it. Keep hunting with it. If you start feeling like you need less recoil in your life, drop down to something like the 6.5 Creedmoor. The deer won’t know the difference.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I can’t wait until I actually meet one of these boisterous rabid man bun fanbois which try to shove the 6.5 creed down anyone’s - let alone everyone’s - throats. I’m in dozens of FB groups, moderate a couple even, member at multiple ranges, meet dozens of new competitive shooters every spring, teach classes to a handful more, use a half dozen forums like this daily and thrice as many weekly…

But in the same contexts, I’ve experienced hundreds of Fudds bitching about these non-existent fanbois…

This. All of this.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Also, pretty sure this whole thread is based on a hyperbolic conversation that may or may not have actually happened... At least in the capacity or degree in which it is framed.

"And everyone clapped"

"I asked my nine month old what she thought of the Creedmoor, and she said, 'Dad, those Creedmoors are for man-bun hipsters!' As a dad I've never been so proud"

 

[MachIVshooter]

I can’t wait until I actually meet one of these boisterous rabid man bun fanbois which try to shove the 6.5 creed down anyone’s - let alone everyone’s - throats. I’m in dozens of FB groups, moderate a couple even, member at multiple ranges, meet dozens of new competitive shooters every spring, teach classes to a handful more, use a half dozen forums like this daily and thrice as many weekly…

I built a number of rifles for them. They annoyed me, like any gun shop "expert" on the customer side of the counter, but their money was green enough, so I rolled my eyes and put their whiz bang carbon fiber barrel chassis guns together and moved on to the next project.

There was definitely a difference between the 6.5 Creed crowd and the guys having guns done in .308, .300 win mag, .300 PRC, 6.5-284. Not all of them, of course, but plenty who exemplified the stereotype.