Scary guy at the range

[Cosmoline]

The basics of firearm safety are only slightly more difficult to understand and master than the act of putting on your pants. That's what I love about shooting. It's an activity most anyone can participate in, even if they're in a wheelchair or a bit on the slow side.

 

[EvilOmega]

What IQ is required to shoot a firearm? If you follow the rules you are okay.

While the fellow you saw on the range had some piss poor technique he did not violate the basic rules. Shooting safely is more important to me than whether you can hit a bull in the rump with a bass fiddle.

Pointing a gun at your own head is ether:
a) A violation of rule two, letting the muzzle cover something you are not willing to destroy.
Or
b) A sign of suicidal mental instability.

Ether is grounds to get you kicked from a good range.

 

[PATH]

I am not sure what he did concerning the barrel. Norton says he looked up at it when out of ammo then a post or two later says he looked down barrel. I am not sure what he did but Norton says in his second post that he agreed that the guy did nothing untoward as far as I can discern.

More input from Norton on this point would help clarify the situation somewhat!

 

[Andrew Rothman]

...he got tossed, even as he protested he was FBI, and exempt. Not on my range.
Side note - he later offered to let me shoot his MP10 - all forgiven, for three full mags of 10mm

So you're safety-conscious, but you can be bought?

I'd prefer to kick the guy out once for breaking the rules, and again for being a pompous jerk.

 

[artherd]

The same guy who can operate a car, chainsaw, jackhammer, nailgun, or other dangerous tool (actually, I'd say ALL of them.) can operate a gun in my opinion.

Any of the above beyond your capability to use (or capability to learn how to use, don't yell at me you non-chainsaw-using housewives , and I'm sorry, but you should not own a gun.

 

[The_Antibubba]

Sometimes slow is better

OK, if a person with DDs (or retarded, if you prefer), can be taught gun and range safety, and their only problem is the speed at which the neurons fire, let them have RKBA like the rest of us! Many DDs also lack the ego that goes with a modicum of intelligence, and will listen and obey when given instructions. The DD, like so many others with noticeable impairments, are too often thought to be easier targets for cowardly goblins.

Notice I say "if" intelligence is the only factor. Not everyone should have a gun.

 

[Norton]

PATH and others....sorry for the lack of consistency there....

The PIQ (person in question) did not turn the business end towards him and look directly down the barrel. He did, however, as he finished up each round of shells point the gun up at the ceiling at a rather sharp angle and sort of lean forward as if to peek down the barrel.

While the muzzle was never pointed directly at him it was enough to be of concern, given the quality of his speech and what he said.

Like I said, he didn't do anything that we could put our finger on that said "A Ha....you're outta here"....it was just a general sense of unease with this particular gentlemen being next to us.

 

[Norton]

For all:

Wow, I didn't expect this thread to generate such response, but as we all know safety at the range is of paramount importance to all of us.

I am always conflicted to criticize anyone's competency or performance at the range as I have not been shooting all that long, despite my moderately advanced 36 years. I'm sure that at some point in my first range outings I was the bumbling idiot standing on the line. I was fortunate to have some good folks help me out at the range and was lucky enough to take a great pasic pistol class through a local IWLA chapter.

It's a fine line between holding the mark on safety and being a snob who believes that "since you don't behave and do things the way I do....you're wrong".

For the record, there were lots of other rentals shooting that day. There were boyfriend/girlfriend combos, 20 somethings out for some "guy time", some solo ladies trying guns on for size. There were all things they could have done better (like the one boyfriend who decided to introduce his GF to shooting with a model 1911 ) but they were not behaving.....oddly, shall I say.

I do not want to become a gun bigot who believes that no one but me is as qualified to shoot and I agree that our sport should be open to all.

I posted this experience to sound out our cumulative experience and, by golly, it's working

 

[tyme]

If it's not safe for mentally handicapped individuals to shoot, why are they allowed to write newspaper articles and vote?

I think the whole IQ system is a scam. In kindergarten I was assigned an IQ of 100 after drawing a person with rather few body parts. This was just after my parents had taken me to see an abstract art collection.
I'm proud of my IQ of 100. I've never taken an official IQ test since, but why bother? 100 is good enough for me.

Does anyone think the IQ system is really normalized at 100? I wonder what IQ the median SAT achiever has, or the median ERB achiever has (or whatever test public schools give these days).

 

[c_yeager]

The test is revised each year and the 'normal' range is always placed between 90 and 110.

And if we are going to be alright with letting kids shoot at the range then we cant exactly tell a retarded guy to hit the bricks. How many times have we been regaled by stories of our older members heading off the junior high with their .22 to go plinking with after class?

 

[GigaBuist]

Does anyone think the IQ system is really normalized at 100? I wonder what IQ the median SAT achiever has, or the median ERB achiever has (or whatever test public schools give these days).

The IQ for a median SAT or ACT tester is the average IQ for somebody wanting to get into college. It's going to be higher than 100 given that the sample isn't counting people in the 70-90 range at all.

SAT and ACT tests are really just glorified IQ tests... I may be wrong about the SAT but the ACT really is just an IQ test. Kinda irks me that my younger brother scored at 30 on the ACT... drunk.

 

[Battlespace]

1975 at a .45 range in Baumholder, Germany. One of the guys in the same firing order as me had a jam. He was two or three points from me, and I watched in amazement as he tilted the gun back and looked directly down the muzzle. I think the range safety officer and OIC made record time in calling a cease fire and sprinting to him and getting the gun under control and out of his hand. What a moron.

 

[Quartus]

If it's not safe for mentally handicapped individuals to shoot, why are they allowed to write newspaper articles and vote?

Whoa! Here's a radical notion:


The terms "retarded", "developmentally disabled", etc., can be and are applied to individuals with a broad range of disability, from barely above vegetable to only mildly afflicted.


Now, if that radical and strange idea were true, wouldn't it imply that SOME retarded persons could shoot with no problem, and some couldn't?





Nah. Couldn't be.



The First Commandment of PC: Thou Shalt Not Recognize Differences!

 

[spacemanspiff]

whew! my 130 iq qualifies me to shoot!

i was scared for a minute....


when i went to the range a couple weeks ago, one of my buddies was talking about 'its not like the other range with rules! you can do anything there!"

so i asked him 'can i point my gun at you?'

"oh well i guess theres some rules."

'well can i hold my guns and play with them while you set up new targets?'

.....

turns out we called ceasefires and cleared our weapons just like the other range.

 

[Riffraff]

Interesting discussion, being one that strives to be highly irregular (my own choice for a label). I have to provide my NSHO

I don't have a problem with anyone shooting as long as they are safe. Heck I several cases here make the point that many "intelligent" folk are dangerous on the range.

On the other hand I think I have experienced what Norton and Spot are getting at, which is that creepy uncomfortable feeling some folks can give you on the range or at any shooting event. Depending on how severe the feeling is or how dangerous their actions I decide my course. If they are being dangerous I'll point it out to a range official. If they are making me uncomfortable but not unsafe, I see if I can move to a different lane where I'll feel more comfortable. IF I am so uncomfortable that changing lanes did/will not help I am always free to leave and come back later.

 

[MikeJ]

To add to this general subject, I have a story about a scary guy at the range several years ago. There is an indoor range fairly close to where I work so every once in a while I will go there during my lunch hour for some practice. I was waiting to get checked in and this guy in front of me just didn't seem quite right, rather preoccupied and inattentive to the whole process. Anyway, he rented a Beretta 9mm and proceeded to go inside, I asked the range guy to put me at least a few lanes down from him as I didn't get a good feeling about him and didn't want to be right next to him. Long story short, he went in and fired a few rounds then put the gun to his head and killed himself. To say I was shaken up is an understatement. Even as I right this today, it still seems very surreal. An interesting side note is how people react to such things, there were several people there that found it quite fascinating and for lack of a better word, even amusing. Those kind of folks I will never understand.

 

[roo_ster]

I am here to tell you that some of the guys I went through Basic & AIT with at Sand Hill were probably retarded in the sense of "IQ<70."

Those that didn't otherwise wash out managed to learn safe gun handling skills.

OTOH, I will never again shoot with the husband of one of my wife's friends. Sharp guy, very glib, but a dumba$$ when it came to gun safety. Finger of the trigger. Finger OFF the trigger. FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER!!! Sweep me with the muzzle again and you'll find out how it suits you as a suppository!

That said, I dislike the "range nazi" ranges & the folks who think that THIER safety regimen is the only one blessed by JMB & JHC and that all others are benighted safety hazards. There is such a thing as "big boy rules."

I understand that the ranges are trying to "lawyer proof" themselves, but I don't have to like having my training options limited.

 

[EvilOmega]

Was at the range Sunday, when we got there we went to check in at a little trailer they have on site. When I open the door there’s a man inside with the range master, waving a rifle around, covered the range master and me with the barrel several times, I stop outside and he waves me in ( I don't see if the action was open, I was to busy playing duck the muzzle to look at the other end). So we have a good time shooting and I get my new scope sighted in and we pack up for the day as the range was closing. My friend was showing his .22 Bersa to a guy at the range with a .380 bersa, the range master comes over, now my friend keeps his pistol empty with the hammer cocked, (no idea why) and the range master saw this and called out loudly that he should lower the hammer before he put it in the box. So I guess some unsafe things are ok and some aren’t. Struck me as odd anyway.