Scope options for DMR...

[MTMilitiaman]

I have a Springfield Armory M1A Loaded. I am considering my scope mounting options as well as my choices in optics in preparation for turning it into a sort of DMR. One thing I am noticing is that while they seem like simple enough requests to me, optics choices that meet my criteria are even harder to find that suitable mounting solutions. I want something that can take me out to about 800 yards. I have access to these ranges and have taken this rifle out to 600 yards with iron sights, so I feel like this is a fair maximum effective range given the rifle's demonstrated accuracy and the ballistic capabilities of the cartridge. So for power range, I am looking for something with a low-end magnification of no higher than 3.5x and a high-end magnification of no lower than 8x. I believe with the ring height that will be necessary to correctly mount the optics, any objective bell of 56mm or less should be fine, so that is not an issue. I would prefer a 30mm tube, but this isn't a deal breaker.

The problem seems to be in finding a suitable reticle. Most of the reticles on the market revolve around the mil-dot reticle or a variation thereof callibrated with hash marks in mill or MOA. While with practice these are capable of very good accuracy and can be used on targets of any known size, they all require math and formulas. I am looking for something more inline with Trijicons ACOG reticles. Something with a large chevron, horseshoe, or circle dot, which can be illuminated, with a Christmas tree-style stadia line providing both rangefinding and BDC for a target of specific size (torso target of between 18 to 20 inches in width) and specific load (7.62x51, prefer either 147 gr M80 ball or 175 gr M118LR) out to 800 yards. If Trijicon was intelligent enough to put their ACOG reticle on their 2.5-10 Accupoint, it would be about perfect.

In terms of non-math based reticles on scopes meeting my requirements, nothing from Leupold or Nightforce seems to apply. The US Optics and S&B are out of my price range. Trijicon has the technology, but refuses to use it, so they are out. I've really only found three models that seem to apply, and I would like some insight on them:

IOR Valdada 1.5-8

Sheperd 3-10

and the Leatherwood ART 2.5-10

Any info you could give me on any of these scopes, or any other optics out there that meet my requirements would be super. Depending on how my income tax return is, I'd like to get this up and running in time to be ringing steel this summer, but that might be a little optimistic on my part.

 

[praharin]

Have you contacted Trijicon? They may be willing to do you a solid and etch your requested reticle. I have been contemplating asking them if they can adjust an compact ACOG's eye relief to be a little longer for mounting on my 527 carbine, and still be able to use the irons.

Now that I am talking about it, I just might do that now

 

[taliv]

i don't have personal experience with these scopes, but this seems to be what you're looking for http://rapidreticle.com/

 

[MCMXI]

I like the Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x with the Special Purpose Reticle (SPR). I realize that it doesn't meet your 8x minimum requirement but it is available with an illuminated reticle and a 30mm tube. The reticle does provide rapid range estimation without any math. I have two of these scopes with 1" tubes and no illumination and one with a 30mm tube and illumination. So far they've all been excellent. It's a pity that Leupold doesn't offer the SP reticle in their Mark 4 2.5-8x36mm M2 scope with illuminated reticle.

I have a Zeiss Conquest with the RZ-600 reticle but haven't used it yet. The math goes away (for holdover) if you use the utility from Zeiss to figure out what power setting should be used to get convenient holdover increments based on the horizontal stadia.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

The SPR does look interesting. I think I could make it work, but I too wish it was an option on the 2.5-8.

Does anyone have any experience with the other IOR or the ART, primarily concerning durability and quality of glass?

Most of the reports I've heard of the IOR have been positive. My main concern with that optic is the accuracy of a BDC callibrated for the 5.56mm 62 gr ball load compared to the 7.62mm. I've compared factory ballistic charts and the 147 gr ball load for the 7.62 is pretty close to the 62 gr ball load for the 5.56 out to 500 yards, but that is as far as most factory charts go and I am interested in going a little bit farther out than that.

The ART seems interesting to me, but I recall reports of the first generation optics being rather fragile. One report I read said that if it wasn't for the optics, the M14 would have had a better record for durability than the bolt action sniper rifles being used at the time. I am not willing to completely discount the latest generation optics for this, but it does make me skeptical of the durability of their external elevation adjustment system.

 

[MCMXI]

My gunsmith has an IOR on his match rifle and it's an excellent scope. I've spent some time looking through it at the range and was very impressed by the quality of the glass. However, recently I've come to realize that glass quality isn't the most important thing for long range shooting. The MOST important thing is REPEATABLE elevation and windage adjustments i.e. no drift, no missing clicks etc. This is where Nightforce shines and where many other scope manufactures don't.

 

[Shadow Man]

I've heard great things about the IOR, first suggested to me by Maverick223, I believe. I went and did some independant research on them, and they appear to be fine optics.

I didn't even know that they still made Leatherwood ART's! They are, by far, one of the easiest scopes to use that I have ever encountered. If you can get your hands on one of those...go for it. The optics were, in original form, a bit fragile, but that was back in the 1960's, optics were still fairly primitive. I remember an instructor I had once upon a time telling us that they didn't get vacuum sealed optics until the mid-80's...so you should be fine with a modern ART.

 

[pdd614]

I have been using the new ss 3-9 scope for a couple months now. 600 dollars gets you a first focal plane, mildot, mil adjusted scope. for those of you that haven't switched over to scopes with matching reticles and adjustments, now is a great time to start. I promise your shooting will become alot easier, especially if you do alot of odd distance shooting.

the ss 3-9 really is a great scope, and will be staying on my ar for a long time to come.

 

[bpl]

I'm sort of interested in the M1A - the scout squad model looks interesting especially. In the past when I've looked into it, it looked to be a PIA to scope. I'm not sure I'd like a forward mounted scout scope. What are the options for scope mounts? Which scope mounts will you be using? Also, what about the Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5-16x42mm Tactical with Mil-dot reticle?