Seized by the Manchester, New Hampshire PD for Open Carry

[NH AR Shooter]

Hi folks
I've lived in Manchester for most of my life, and nothing about this is really surprising. Up north, or out at the country store, during hunting season, open carry is pretty much accepted. But dont walk into a MacDonalds, or a shopping mall, you can expect panic and fear from people wont even allow the word "gun" be mentioned to their kids. If push comes to shove, the police will charge you with "Creating a public disturbance", as happened to a fellow who was seen walking along a road with a rifle a while back, he had just come out of the woods and was just walking home, some soccer mom saw him, called the police, who swooped down on him in force, took him into custody, interrogated him for a while, and after determining he was no threat, charged him with creating a public disturbance, the charge was later dropped. My point here, is that they can and will find something to charge you with, if it suits them. It happens, Its not right, I dont like it, it must be challenged in both civil and criminal court whenever it happens.

 

[aryfrosty]

In case OldLt missed the point of , paraphrasing the remark that, simply pulling your shirt over , (the weapon) does not violate your right/s.
Yes, it really does. In this state a person not prohibited by law from owning/carrying has the RIGHT to carry openly without even a permit. If some overzealous cop doesn't like that... tough! It is a RIGHT...not a privilege. If a cop gets a complaint about open carry then ASKING a person to cover it up would be reasonable...if the person refuses they have the right to do so.
Without getting into every right which appear to have been violated consider the rights a person has to be free fron unlawful serach and seizure...to be free of the fear of bodily harm.
I'm uncertain if you are indicating that you are a former or current LEO by the name "OldLt", but if you are you must be aware that no cop has a "right", or a privilege, to jack anybody around because they may have gotten a concerned citizen's complaint that someone was frightening them. When a cop gets a moronic complaint regarding a lawful exercise of rights by another party the cop has the privilege of explaing that the acts done by the subject of the complaint are legal and that the cop cannot interfere with lawful acts.
Concisely stated: "Just say 'NO' " when asked to infringe upon the rights of anyone.
I feel archaic. I can recall when courtesy and respect went both ways from the thin blue line. It needs to once again.
Scary, aint' it?

 

[flatrock]

OldLt,

Clearly, carrying a firearm into a public venue in an open carry mode, is bound to cause fear among others.

I realize it does cause fear in many, however the question is why?

Is that same person worried that as they walk down the street that one of the drivers will swerve their car up on the sidewalk to hit them? More people are killed by cars than guns. Although the truth is that neither cars or guns kill people.

Many people have an irrational fear of guns. Being forced to hide guns in public and having police forcibly detain someone when they accidently become visible only enforces this fear.

Most people want to live in a world where they have no need for self defense, and are uncomfortable with reminders that there is a need for self defense in the world they live in. A reminder that they might be seriously injured or killed is especially unpleasant, and that's the case in which you would need a gun to defend yourself.

Therefore they want to make the world safer by removing all guns. However, that's not possible as we've seen in England and Austrailia. If you make laws agains owning and carrying guns you only disarm law abiding citizens.

We have the right to protect ourselves, however the irrational fear of guns being carried in public that most people have needs to be addressed. It needs to be addressed through education. However that's dificult when the media is anti-gun, and people who exercise their rights are catagorized as nuts.

The reason I don't suggest a lawsuit is that people don't trust the legal system or lawyers very much. A lawsuit in itself isn't a very credible way of convincing more people that it's not dangerous to have law abiding citizens carrying guns in public. It's better to first try and open a dilogue with the police and try and educate them, rather than hitting them with a lawsuit which may instead have an adverse effect.

 

[telcontar]

Just my 2 cents.
Sue the City, Department and individual officers.
This stuff has got to stop. It will not go away until we act and continue to act.

 

[mvpel]

Hi folks,

Just had a very informative conversation with Ms. Dean of Concord. Per her recommendation, I'm working on gathering some additional documentation, including any surveillance, 911 tapes, etc.

 

[444]

Jolly good show old chap.

 

[kbr80]

Great news. Stick it to them. Post your letter on local B boards in stores, especially the one were you were assaulted. Try to get the letter printed in the paper, even if you have to purchase add space. Who knows, maybe you are not the only one these JBT's and their kind have done this, or similar things too. Draw as much attention as you can. This type of behavior must stop.

 

[Airedale1]

by mvpel....Just had a very informative conversation with Ms. Dean of Concord. Per her recommendation, I'm working on gathering some additional documentation, including any surveillance, 911 tapes, etc.

Oh, Oh!.....this is the leg work that any competent, commited lawyer would at this point be doing for you. Not, having you do it. I live in Concord, NH and I have never even heard of her before. That is not to say that she is not competent, but "her recommendation," of a course of action carried out by her client is to put it kindly, not indicative of an attorney who is max attentive to your case.

I suggest you quickly put into action a Plan B. State Representative Richard (Stretch) Kennedy (R-NH) [email protected] .....is without a doubt one of the foremost defenders of RKBA in NH. I suggest that you immediately send him a copy of your letter to MPD. I also suggest, that you do the same to Stephen King (not the author) at [email protected] who is the President of GONH (Gun Owners of NH) http://www.gonh.org/ . Both of these individuals should be made aware of your plight and both will be able to assist you if, as I fear your current course of action is not the best. At any rate they need to know and I am sure that they can help you greatly. If you like PM me and I will provide you with Rep. Kennedy's home phone. Best of luck.

 

[spacemanspiff]

for all we know, whomever called 9-1-1 may have told the dispatcher 'theres a bad man waving a gun around and threatening to kill our babies!'

and as we all know, Law Enforcement tends to go with the version the first 'victim' sobs. thats not an insult towards LEA/LEO's, its just the simple truth.

 

[MissileCop]

Paolo,
Nowhere does it say that mvpel has retained the services of Ms. Dean yet. He merely had an informative conversation. If he's not paying for her services, the leg work is his own.

You don't read the Concord Monitor, do you? If you do, you must have missed the letters to the editor that she has submitted from time to time. Amusing, to say the least.
And hey, I live in Concord too, and I've never heard of you,either!

 

[Larryect]

Very true. However the LEO should have a responsibility to asses the situation when on-scene.

 

[kbr80]

Very true. However the LEO should have a responsibility to asses the situation when on-scene

True, a good LEO would have done that. For a JBT, it requires thinking, they don't utilize that part of their brain. They just want to be able to tell stories and whack off with buddies after shift, watching an episode of cops and laughing about the citizens they jacked up.

 

[Frohickey]

If I lived in Manchester, NH... it looks like its time for an open-carry rally and book shopping over at the same Barnes&Noble.

 

[Larryect]

kbr80,

My response was meant as a comment to spacemanspiff. I am new at this and did not make that as clear as I should have. MissileCop managed to get a post in while I was composing mine.

While I did not want to get into LEO bashing, I do not believe the responding officers acted properly.

 

[mvpel]

Before having an open carry get-together at Barnes & Noble, please at least give me a chance to get the surveillance tapes out of them before you do. Thanks!

And he's right, I haven't retained the services of Ms. Dean yet, though she's interested in the case. I'll let folks know when the legal fund starts up.

 

[Airedale1]

by MissileCop..........Paolo....Nowhere does it say that mvpel has retained the services of Ms. Dean yet. He merely had an informative conversation. If he's not paying for her services, the leg work is his own.

If he is serious about persuing this through legal channels, as a plaintiff he should retain the services of a competent attorney post haste. With Barnes and Nobel, the State of NH (911 is a state agency) and the City of Manchester (MPD) all as possible defendants in a law suit, he is going to need a subpoena to obtain the relevant written, audio and video evidence.

MissileCop as a NH resident (mvpel is new here) do you disagree that he should as I advised earlier:

contact......."State Representative Richard (Stretch) Kennedy (R-NH) [email protected] .....is without a doubt one of the foremost defenders of RKBA in NH. I suggest that you immediately send him a copy of your letter to MPD. I also suggest, that you do the same to Stephen King (not the author) at [email protected] who is the President of GONH (Gun Owners of NH) http://www.gonh.org/ . Both of these individuals should be made aware of your plight and both will be able to assist you if, as I fear your current course of action is not the best. At any rate they need to know and I am sure that they can help you greatly. If you like PM me and I will provide you with Rep. Kennedy's home phone. Best of luck."

 

[MissileCop]

MissileCop as a NH resident (mvpel is new here) do you disagree that he should as I advised earlier:

contact......."State Representative Richard (Stretch) Kennedy (R-NH) [email protected] .....is without a doubt one of the foremost defenders of RKBA in NH. I suggest that you immediately send him a copy of your letter to MPD. I also suggest, that you do the same to Stephen King (not the author) at [email protected] who is the President of GONH (Gun Owners of NH) http://www.gonh.org/ . Both of these individuals should be made aware of your plight and both will be able to assist you if, as I fear your current course of action is not the best. At any rate they need to know and I am sure that they can help you greatly. If you like PM me and I will provide you with Rep. Kennedy's home phone. Best of luck."



Nope, don't disagree with you in the least, Paolo. GO-NH is already aware of the situation. Evelyn Logan, who is the editor of the GO-NH newsletter, sent this THR thread to Ms. Dean several hours after mvpel had contacted Ms. Dean directly.

mvpel is getting help from all corners of the state, and that's the way it should be. He better feel special. Not all transplanted outsiders get this sort of treatment!

I believe mvpel is probably currently weighing all his options. Much of it will depend on, I think, how the powers that be at the Manchester P.D. handle this. My guess is that he's giving them a chance to do the right thing, while at the same time formulating a strategy in case they don't.

 

[Ktulu]

YAY! I'll put up a very tiny amount of cash. $20 or so is all I can afford.

 

[kbr80]

Much of it will depend on, I think, how the powers that be at the Manchester P.D. handle this. My guess is that he's giving them a chance to do the right thing

They did not do it RIGHT the first go around, thats why mvpel is having this problem. What makes you think the will make it right if given another chance? Why should they be given the chance for a "learning experience? You or I would not if we acted this way, assault someone, unlawful detention. We would be explaining our conduct to a judge, as they should be.

 

[12-34hom]

KBR80

Ah, the caped crusader speaks on behalf of all the oppressed and downtrodden that the JBT's have trampled...

Thank you sir, i can sleep nights knowing your vigilance never waivers.

12-34hom.

 

[mvpel]

Retained Ms. Dean

News update:

I've agreed to retain Penny Dean as my attorney to handle the preservation of the 911 records, and the bookstore surveillance tapes if professional persuasion proves to be necessary.

As it turned out, the 911 record preservation request must be on legal letterhead, and obtaining copies requires a subpoena.

The manager I talked to at the bookstore was hesitant to even admit that they had surveillance tapes, let alone handing out copies of them - he punted to the general manager who I'll be contacting tomorrow. Given this reaction, another "comma-Esquire" letter may be necessary.

I'll be sending Ms. Dean a $500 retainer tomorrow.

Those of you who would like to contribute to the effort, please sit tight, and I'll sort out with Ms. Dean what the usual approach for that is. My plan is that any leftover funds when all is said and done would be donated to The High Road.

 

[kbr80]

KBR80
Ah, the caped crusader speaks on behalf of all the oppressed and downtrodden that the JBT's have trampled...

Thank you sir, i can sleep nights knowing your vigilance never waivers.

12-34hom.



And now the official JBT spokesman has chimed in. I dont see you up in arms about this obvious assault. HMM, is that because you believe it should be that way, you are always defending JBT's bad behavior. So, listen take your few years of reserve officer experience, get a full time job in law enforcement, and try, it may be hard, but try to remember you are a public servant, not a master of the public.

I am glad you sleep well, its people like me, and others that see the decline in Law Enforcement that will be the front runners to have people that abuse their authority get what they need, a new job. Its limp wristed attitudes like yours that have made it easy for this kind of thing to happen in the first place.

DISCLAIMER:
I do not believe that all cops are bad. Its the bad ones that make all cops appear bad in the eyes of the public. I will relate a story: When I was a young investigator in the army, we had a Military Police Patrolman that thought it was his duty to keep the wives of the Cav soldiers with company when they were in the field. Well, the army frowns on adultery (why they have not changed that article in the UCMJ to be with the times is beyond me)and my office was tasked to investigate. The short of it, the husbands, when intereviewed, did not know which MP was at fault, so they looked at all MP's as if they were the guilty party. Perception. The bad always out weighs the good in everything. So, LEO's, if you have a bad apple, a JBT on your force, help speed him/her on to another job (outside of LE). Do the public and police work a favor. Remember, the people who have recieved bad treatment at the hands of JBT's, will always view any cop as the enemy.

 

[Devonai]

It's very fortunate that you can afford to hire a lawyer. Hopefully we can help return some of those funds to you. Good luck!

 

[12-34hom]

Kbr80, i see your panties are in a bunch again,

Did all your years of service as a law officer make you lose your sense of humor.......

April Fools - you are so easy.


12-34hom.

 

[NewShooter78]

mvpel,
You might have a little trouble with B&N. I don't think most of their stores have video surveilance that covers the sales floor. I know that some have hidden cams on the back entrances, and even more have fake video bubbles on the ceiling. They don't like to admit it though. And if you want to know how I know this then PM me.