Selecting a rifle, need a point of reference...

[Sinixstar]

So - aside from finding a good .22 to learn my girlfriend on - i'll also need something for myself. I like .22's and all - but i'd prefer something with a little more umph as well.

One problem.

I have very little experience with bottlenecked rifle rounds. I've popped off some .223's in the past, and shot an old (very old, with a very tough stock) .30-06 ONE time (I was 15, and maybe 100lbs soaking wet, once was enough!).
So - all that said, I need a point of reference in terms of recoil. I know this is probably one of the lamer, and more often requested pieces of info - but how does the recoil of various calibers (generally speaking) compare to other guns?

The calibers i'm most interested in are the .243, .270(either Win, WSM, or Wby), or possibly something like a .300 WSM or .308.

Experience for comparison:
.50 cal muzzleloader : 90 to 110gr triple7 behind Buffalo 490gr hollow point lead
12ga : Winchester 2 3/4 slugs (The cheap ones) out of a model 37 featherlight

The WSM thing is more of a curiosity than anything. In my reading it seems you can get near mag performance with less than mag recoil (which is a plus), but the availability and cost of ammo is questionable (big minus). Not sure I really want to go that direction, unless somebody can give me a compelling argument as to why.

As it stands, i'm leaning towards the .270 - in really any of the varieties (although I know the Wby ammo is $$$). Seems the .270 offers a good combination of versatility and usability from a recoil standpoint. (I don't mind recoil, but i would like to have a shoulder left after a day at the range)

Thoughts? Suggestions? Words of caution or advice?
thanks!

 

[flyboy1788]

i have shot plenty of .30-06, .223, and .243. .30-06 has the most recoil of the three, but depending on how big you are, it may not effect you as much. I am only 5' 9" 185 lbs, but I have no problem goin to the range and runnin 60 rounds through my mauser kar98 in 8mm which has kick similar to .30-06 rifles I have fired. On the other hand my buddy who weighs 135 lbs soaking wet has a raw shoulder after firing my mauser for 10 rounds. Everyone is different. That being said, i fired 10 rounds of 300 win. mag. from a 6 lb. Sako and my shoulder was rocked. Everyone has different limits as to what they can comfortably shoot. All that being said, I found that the .243 has a kick that is somewhere between the .223 and .30-06. I cannot speak for the .270 or the .308 as I have not fired these cartridges.

 

[Decker]

Guess it depends on what you want to do with this rifle?

if it is a big game gun, the 270 is as all purpose as they come. if you just want to punch paper, 308 or 223 that you can get surplus military ammo for at a lower cost might be a consideration to factor in.

 

[Sinixstar]

Guess it depends on what you want to do with this rifle?

if it is a big game gun, the 270 is as all purpose as they come. if you just want to punch paper, 308 or 223 that you can get surplus military ammo for at a lower cost might be a consideration to factor in.

That's the other part of the equation.
I haven't hunted in some time - but part of this adventure is to hopefully pick it back up again. There's deer around these parts, and I have family that take a week long trip to CO for various game. Wouldn't mind getting in one of those trips before too long.
So really - a little bit of a combination. That's a big part of why I was leaning .270 - as I've heard the "all purpose as they come" statement from many places.

 

[bang_bang]

As for the rifles chambered in 30-06 that I have fired, the recoil is similar to that of the .270. .308 is up there with them.

If recoil is a problem, get a synthetic stock with a recoil pad. This will help the recoil become more bearable at the range, and is oftentimes lighter than wood.

30-06 and .308 are fairly close in ballistics from my understanding. Both are great hunting rounds. .270 Win is an excellent flat shooting caliber similar with 130gr loads to a 300 Win Mag with 180gr loads for the first several hundred yards. The .270 is more suitable for animals such as whitetail, and probably mulies. I don't know if I would try an elk with one....

Ammo for the .308 is probably the cheapest of the 3. ($13 a box for Federal Power Shock ammo at Wally World)

30-06 and .270 ammo seems to stay pretty even where I live.

Find a cheap new or used bolt action. I would try to find a Savage or Stevens (a Savage without the Accutrigger). These will run you right at $300. A decent scope, bipods, and a box of shells will put you slightly over the $400 mark.

 

[BENELLIMONTE]

Sinixstar,

If the majority of your hunts are for deer sized game with only an occasional elk hunt you should go with the 270 Win. On the other hand if you're likely to hunt every year for elk, mule deer & bear you should consider the 30 caliber i.e 300 WSM, 300 Win. Mag or the 300 Weatherby or if you like something for the "Big Bulls" go with the 338 Win Mag. As far as recoil goes the 270 win, 308 and the 30-06 are all very similar. The 30 cals are pretty close also with the Weatherby
giving more kick than the other two. The 338 will knock the snot out of you unless you get a good recoil pad and a muzzle brake. My Ruger in 338 Win Mag was "smithed" by George Vais and has a Pachmayer pad and a Vais brake.
FYI bullet choice always matters especially with the smaller calibers. I am partial to Nosler Partitions for most everything I shoot. But there are a lot of great all around bullets for you to experiment with.
Hope this helps,
B'Monte

 

[Sinixstar]

As for the rifles chambered in 30-06 that I have fired, the recoil is similar to that of the .270. .308 is up there with them.

The .30-06 I fired was some old old (like 1912) rifle. The only thing between me and the stock was my t-shirt. Not fun.
Again, I was also 15 years old, and tiny.

Can you make a comparison as to the examples I gave? I only ever shot the .30-06 once, but have put many many rounds through the shotgun and muzzlerloaders, got a pretty good idea what I can handle there..

 

[bang_bang]

The named rifles shouldn't be much trouble compared to the .50cal smoke pole and the 12 gauge.

Plus, the "1912" rifle you fired probably had a metal buttplate. Those rifles will scoot you a bit. A synthetic stock or at least a recoil pad, if not both, will reduce the recoil enough to notice.

 

[gvnwst]

If you want only the occasional Elk, get the .243. Plenty for deer (just ask Shawnee) with ammo everywhere, and lower reciol. If you can hit what you are aiming at, the .243 will do. Plus cheaper ammo than any magnum cartridge.

 

[Sinixstar]

Plus, the "1912" rifle you fired probably had a metal buttplate.

that it did!
It was my dad's friend's gun. He got a kick out of it too. I think it had something to do with only having pre-teen daughters. When I was around he had a little bit of a surrogate son to beat up on a bit.

 

[longdayjake]

might i suggest the .25-06? It was actually my first gun back in 2000. It got left in the closet until I could afford a good scope for it and now it is one of my favorites. The cartridge is amazing and has very little kick. I would not hesitate to let young children shoot it or a GF.

 

[hossdaniels]

If you can handle 12ga slugs with no problem, you should be fine up to a 300 win mag. Maybe invest $30 in a good recoil pad, they are waaaaay worth it.

 

[ken22250]

it mostly depends on what you wish to hunt, but if you are recoil sensitive, i would deffinatly say the .270win, it is an exelent round, and its taken every animla in n america, its fairly low recoil, exelent down range performance, and i would definatly stay away from the .270 wby, wsm, and 300 wsm, as they all recoil harder than a 3006
ken

 

[Shawnee]

With typical hunting loads in typical rifles, recoil figures run like this.

.243 - 9 ft./lbs.

.30/30 - 11.5 ft./lbs.

.25/06 - 12.5 ft./lbs.

7mm/08 - 14 ft./lbs.

.35 Remington - 14.5 ft./lbs.

.270 - 16ft./lbs.

.308 - 16.7 ft./lbs.

30/06 - 17.5 ft./lbs. (about 60% more than the .270)

7mm Magnum - 21.5 ft,/lbs.


HTH,

 

[JImbothefiveth]

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
Here's a "recoil calculator". However, it conflicts with some other sources I've seen, so I'm not sure how accurate it is.

 

[Sinixstar]

Well - I've been leaning towards the .308 - seems to be a wider range of ammo, including surplus stuff (when it's available), which is a consideration. In searching around online, it seems .308 ammo is easier to find at a reasonable price then .270.

The trade-off is, rifles in .308 seem to be more expensive? Not totally sure why that is, looking on Bud's - a Savage in 270 seems to run $100 cheaper then one in .308?
Weird.

 

[Sinixstar]

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
Here's a "recoil calculator". However, it conflicts with some other sources I've seen, so I'm not sure how accurate it is.

So - according to this, a 1oz slug (437.5 gr), with a velocity of say 1250fps, and a 25gr charge - would yield around 19 (18.94 actually) ft/lb of recoil energy.

That would put it somewhere between a 30/06 and a 7mm mag.

Does that sound about right?

Edit: Actually - i used to shoot these: http://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/AS1204.jpg , which has a velocity of 1600fps - so according to that calculator, bumps it up to 28.97 ft/lbs? Seems odd that simply changing the velocity of the round would bump the recoil up so high...

 

[peetee32]

my 'umph' rifle

i too wanted a more substantial rifle to add to my collection...in case there was a milk jug 200yds away that was giving me the skunk eye.

i walked away from Dicks with a brand new savage bolt rifle in 30-06 with a scope for a litte over $300. its a very light stock with a hard butt plate...and the first time out it really put a hurt on my shoulder. not fun to shoot.

i put a limbsaver slip on recoil pad on it, and a pretty heavy folding bipod on it. on a recent shooting trip i must have put over 50 rounds though it and it felt MUCH better on my shoulder. part because i was a litte used to recoil, but the pad and the extra bipod weight helped too.

 

[CB900F]

Sinixstar;

Given roughly comparable energy impulses from recoil for different cartridges, the stock design between makes & calibers will make as much difference in felt recoil as anything.

In other words, it's possible to have a .270 kick the snot out of ya worse than a .30-06 on the shoulder sense-o-meter. BTDT.

Take a good look at the 6.5 X 55mm Swedish Mauser on either a Tikka or CZ platform. Mild recoil, excellent accuracy, penetrates & kills all out of proportion to the bullet diameter, and ammo is available too.

900F

 

[Sinixstar]

Sinixstar;

Given roughly comparable energy impulses from recoil for different cartridges, the stock design between makes & calibers will make as much difference in felt recoil as anything.

In other words, it's possible to have a .270 kick the snot out of ya worse than a .30-06 on the shoulder sense-o-meter. BTDT.

Take a good look at the 6.5 X 55mm Swedish Mauser on either a Tikka or CZ platform. Mild recoil, excellent accuracy, penetrates & kills all out of proportion to the bullet diameter, and ammo is available too.

900F

Well, if it makes any difference - the M37 i used to shoot didn't have a recoil pad, and was way too big for me.

Okay, so - I admit i'm basically being a scared little ^&*%$ about this, and i'm more or less just looking for some reassurance before I drop some cash on a rifle. That's part of why I keep going back to "i can do it - i can handle the shotgun!"

 

[owlhoot]

Twenty-five years ago I found that I had centerfire rifles in seventeen different calibers. I realized that even for a gun nut this was lunancy. I culled out everything but .223 and .308. Now, even though I am back up to eight different calibers, I still think the .223 and the .308 are the two keeper calibers. And the only reason for keeping the .223 is because that is what my EBR eats.

So, if I were going to have a single rifle, I think the best choice, all things considered, is the .308.

You were bitten by an 06 when you were a kid, and the experience has left an indellible impression. But the wrong impression, I think. Perceived recoil is often increased by improper stock fit, weight of rifle, and by improperly mounting the stock to your shoulder. The .308 just doesn't kick that much. I think you would find that if you purchase a rifle with a good fitting stock (not too long or short) that recoil is unlikely to be a problem for you. But if it is. there are a couple of really effective recoil pads on the market. There are also devices such as the Dead Mule that are also effective recoil reducers.

That said, there isn't a thing wrong with the .270. I prefer the .308 only because of the wider bullet selection and the cheaper cost and greater availability of ammunition.

 

[qajaq59]

Of the ones mentioned I like the .308 best. But that's just my opinion. Any of them would serve you well, and recoil pads are pretty darn cheap. I wouldn't let recoil scare you away from the one you really want.

And don't judge by what happened at 15. The guy probably didn't show you how to hold the rifle properly which is why it bit you so bad.

And as a side note: I can't stand guys that do that to kids. It's like ducking a kid underwater when you are supposed to be teaching them to swim.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi Sinxstar...

"Okay, so - I admit i'm basically being a scared little ^&*%$ about this, and i'm more or less just looking for some reassurance before I drop some cash on a rifle. That's part of why I keep going back to "i can do it - i can handle the shotgun!"

I'll disagree with that, Sinxstar. After teaching/watching about 3000 Hunter Safety students over the course of 30 years I can tell you that you are being smart about it.

Recoil (and muzzle blast) is BAD. COMPLETELY BAD. It is Bad for Everyone. It is ALWAYS a negative influence upon the accuracy of the rifleman. ANY rifleman. Recoil does NOT kill a deer any deader - it only hits YOU harder. Recoil does NOT make ANY of your bodily appendages any longer. Woman do NOT have wet dreams about males who withstand heavy recoil. Recoil (and muzzle blast) is the penalty one pays for not thinking. Recoil is the penalty one pays for listening to people who make brilliant decisions like making the gun they have to carry all day heavier in order to "fix" the mistake of buying a rifle in a caliber with excessive recoil (and muzzle blast).

Those above who recommended the 6.5x55 Swede or the .25/06 or the .270
are people who have used their head for something other than to hold their Skoal.

And if you never hunt anything except deer, antelope, wild hogs or black bear, the .243 or 6mm Rem. or .250 Savage or .257 Roberts are perfect for that and have even less recoil and blast. For elk you'll need to borrow or buy a .270 or a 6.5x55 or .25/06 etc. You can sell it later.

As for the pantie-wetting Angst over "ammo availability" - forget that. Get a good caliber and you'll be able to find more than enough ammo for it.

Good Luck !

 

[qajaq59]

Those above who recommended the 6.5x55 Swede or the .25/06 or the .270
are people who have used their head for something other than to hold their Skoal.

Excuse me, but teaching 3000 people safe shooting does NOT qualify you to infer that myself or anyone else has nothing in their head but Skoal because we prefer to shoot higher caliber rifles.

 

[Water-Man]

Shawnee... The recoil table I refer to has the following:
.270 - 16.5-17.0
7mm-08 - 12.6
What's your source?