Self defense .22rimfires?

[ZVP]

In many cases hot weather clothingmakes even NM bJ frame Chiefbtoo heavy and large. Honestly, I do carry my Beretta 21 .22rimfire because it's better than nothing.
So far the most reliable(100% functioning) hard hitting ammo has been the plain Winchester 40 gr lead shells
Is there any serious S/D ammo available or in planning for the lowly rimfire
This post is a serious post andbseriousvanswers would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
ZVP

 

[C0untZer0]

CCI Stinger or CCI 32gr Quik-Shok

"Is there any serious S/D ammo available or in planning for the lowly rimfire"

The major ammunition companies (usually) position their ammo by intended use, so - probably, no major ammunition company is going to try to position or market any .22 LR ammo as "self-defense" ammunition.

 

[redbullitt]

Reliability would be my first concern. I have known quite a few brands to be "iffy" lol. Some of the CCI offerings might fit the bill.

 

[ray15]

While there are many faster loads out there, most of them using hollowpoints, they aren't much pumpkin fired from even a 5" pistol barrel, much less 2-3" guns. While CCI Stingers produce over 1600fps from my 18" rifle, they slow down to 1200fps or so from my 5" pistol, only ~100fps faster than 1255-1280fps 40gr. loads achieve in the same gun. And the Stinger is only a 32gr. bullet, so the muzzle energy ends up being similar.

The other thing to note is that even at 5" barrel speeds, the hollowpoints won't productively expand. If you carry an 18" rifle it would probably be worth it to use Stingers, but it's not going to help in a mouse gun. Your current choice, assuming it is a high-velocity loading (1255-1280fps) which goes bang reliably, is about as good as it gets. You'll get muzzle velocity nearly equal to the hyper-velocity loadings and the solid bullet will give you the best chance at adequate penetration. In most cases the hollowpoint won't expand and thus act like the solid bullet, and should it expand it would most likely reduce penetration to less effective levels.

 

[FL-NC]

I guess the most powerful ammo you can get, which I suppose would be whatever hot loaded rounds CCI is currently pushing, assuming you pistol likes them. I will also add that I have shot more than a few squirrels with 22 LR that I had to chase down, and humans tend to be a bit bigger, aggressive, and more resilient than a squirrel, so.....

 

[hdwhit]

ZVP wrote:
Is there any serious S/D ammo available...

I am not aware of any, but I agree with C0untZero that the CCI Stinger is probably your best bet.

ray15 wrote:
The other thing to note is that even at 5" barrel speeds, the hollowpoints won't productively expand.

At slower pistol velocities hollow-points are less likely to expand, but my experience with the segmented bullets of the CCI Stinger has been that they had a tendency to fragment in the target producing multiple wound channels.

 

[MedWheeler]

Another vote for the Stingers. You won't get expansion from them, but you will get higher velocity which, combined with their lighter weight (32gr), can result in deeper penetration than the 40gr lower-speed rounds. Though I hardly carry it, they're what's in my NAA mini-revolver.

This is, of course, assuming they'll run in your gun. The case is a smidgen longer, and they have plenty of bark. They'll cost quite a bit more to function-check, too. Next up, for me, would be MiniMag HPs.

 

[ray15]

At slower pistol velocities hollow-points are less likely to expand, but my experience with the segmented bullets of the CCI Stinger has been that they had a tendency to fragment in the target producing multiple wound channels.

Unfortunately that is an event the precludes adequate penetration. At 2-3" barrel speeds you can have expansion or penetration - not both. Expansion is next to useless without penetration.

 

[C0untZer0]

The Federal Champion, 36gr CPHP gives some of the best penetration in Brassfetcher's tests - a little over 11 inches out of a 3.4 inch barrel.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Some folks talk about using .380 ball ammo for SD versus HP. I'm kind of on the fence for that as there has been some pretty good ammo development in SD in that regard.

But if you're stooping to a .22lr for SD I'd say the highest velocity ball ammo you can find would be ideal.

The main issue with trying to find a "SD" .22lr round is that nobody really considers that a SD caliber.

 

[mjsdwash]

CCI Velociter, if you can find it. It puts a 40gr hollowpint at around 1100 from a bobcat barrel, but the one i used didn't like it. Lots of jams. I dont think it was a feed issue, but a problem with the slide moving too fast, but yours may do better. I always ran Minimags, because ive never had a bad primer, and as you know, a bad primer ties those up bad.

 

[ray15]

Also consider this table: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html

Although the velocities listed don't precisely replicate what I see on my chronograph, they illustrate the point nonetheless.

In a 2" barrel, the 32gr. Stinger made 974fps for 67lb-ft. of muzzle energy. 40gr. LRN Winchester Super-X did 862fps - for 66ft-lbs. of energy. It's a wash in terms of energy, and you get less flash and bang with the standard load. This will produce equal or better penetration, and the bullet will hold up better if it strikes bone. Cheap practice, as well.

And Velocitor? Only 20fps faster than Super-X by their testing.

 

[Tallball]

Get a kel Tec p32. I don't consider 32acp to be a SD caliber, but it is closer to being one at least. I bought one as a novelty for something like $120 used.

 

[chicharrones]

I have a Beretta Bobcat in .22LR. The Bobcat is larger and thicker than my NAA Guardian in .32 ACP.

FMJ .32 ACP penetrates further and deforms less than any .22LR I have tried, including Stingers. This is with side by side testing between my Bobcat and Guardian, so .22 rifles and long barreled .22 pistols don't count here.

The Guardian isn't as easy to shoot as a Bobcat, but that is where a locked breech KelTec P32 would come in. Plus, that KelTec is still slimmer than a Bobcat.

As much as I like the Bobcat in theory, if I go back to a rimfire carry gun, it would likely be a snubnose revolver in .22 magnum firing 45 grain ammo. Positive extraction with the revolver would be a plus, too.

Edit to add: .22 Magnum is mostly available as jacketed ammo where .22LR is not. Another consideration if penetration is what you are looking for.

 

[John Joseph]

What .22lr cartridge did the Mossad deploy in their Beretta Model 70s, I wonder?
I got pretty reliable expansion from Winchester Super X HPs out of a 6" barrel back in the 1970's.
I don't know how today.s Super X would stack up.

 

[Jim NE]

Is there any serious S/D ammo available or in planning for the lowly rimfire

Since you said ".22 rimfire" instead of ".22 long rifle" the technical answer is yes.
Hornady makes Critical defense in .22 mag.
But your gun is a .22LR semi auto, so no.
Even then, I don't know if I'd call the .22 mag CD ammo "serious." Out of a snubbie it only makes 100 ft./lb.s ME. But that's better than nothing...and better than 70-ish ME from your Beretta.

Bud's is selling Taurus pocket .380's for 175 bucks new. And 9mm versions for 10 bucks more.

 

[kozak6]

The Bobcat isn't particularly small nor light. A Kahr 9mm is only couple ounces heavier and not much bigger. A Ruger LCP is a little longer in the slide but shorter in height, and is much thinner and lighter.

If you are concerned about ballistics, maybe a different gun in a larger caliber would be in order.

 

[usp9]

If I carried a .22lr, I'd probably use Stingers or Mini-Mag. CCI ammo seems to have the best primer consistency.

 

[jimbo555]

I have 2 rim fire handguns that I carry at times. A 8 shot lcr Ruger and a S&w 351c 22magnum revolver. If fed quality ammo misfires are not an issue. People defend themselves all the time with 22's, there are more effective choices for sure but for some folks who can't deal with heavy recoil they are an option. I enjoy rimfires so I carry and shoot them often.

 

[bassjam]

So I did a little test with a phonebook and my tiny NAA .22lr revolver a couple years ago. I fired each of the following rounds into the phonebook from a distance of 10". Then I found the page number in the book where the bullet stopped, and also recorded the page number where there was still tears in the paper past where the bullet stopped. Finally, I measured expansion of each bullet with calipers. IMO, the 60gr Aguila and the 30gr Aguila, followed closely by Stingers, are the best options, but of course this is from a revolver that doesn't need to worry about cycling. I've been saving phone books (they're hard to come by these days) for a 2nd test where I'll soak the phone book in water for 8 hours prior to testing. But the results from a dry phone book are below, as well as a picture of all the bullets.


View attachment upload_2017-5-8_10-11-49.png

 

[kBob]

When I was teaching NRA Safety Classes in the late 1980s and the M21A Bobcat was the rage I found that my students that used Stingers had more failures to fire than any other brand. Everyone had been told by some ex-spurt to go with the fast light Stinger. I understand that later models of the M21A may have slightly longer chambers that better suit the long Stinger case, but does that include yours?

Remember the M21A does not have an extractor. This means there is no fast effective immediate action drill you can even wish would help you if you experience a failure to fire from anything other than a light strike that you might get lucky with a second or third trigger pull on. Clock is running. Reliability COUNTS.

The ammunition that gave the highest reliability was 40 grain Round nose copper was bullets like the old Winchester Super x and its CCI counter part.

Think for a second......do you want the cartridge that gives you a smidgen more power, but might stop shooting even for a second shot or would you "Give Up" a few Feet per second and a foot pound or two to be sure you could have seven ready shots?

I can not count the number of times folks have explained that placement is more important than power. Would you rather chance getting only one , two , or three chances to place right or Seven?

If you have a cartridge that gives you 100 percent reliability why risk anything less?

BTW although I much championed the Bobcat in my early THR posts I have since stepped up to a KelTec P32 for pocket carry.

-kBob

 

[chicharrones]

Good point about the Stingers in a Bobcat, kBob. My Bobcat never ran Stingers as reliably as solid nose Mini Mags. In fact, my Bobcat never ran any kind of hollow point well.

 

[JFrame]

I think the point is well made that one should go with the .22 rounds that work best for your particular pistol (I suppose that rule applies to any caliber). I haven't fired it in ages, but I recall that my Walther TPH absolutely loved Stingers (I dunno -- maybe it just liked the extra "juice" ). But the bottom line is, any pistol is a brick if it can't reliably handle the rounds you're trying to feed through it.

 

[wally]

Honestly, I do carry my Beretta 21 .22rimfire because it's better than nothing.

Pick-up aluminum cans along the roadside or do whatever it takes to buy one of the small .380 pistols on the market -- they are as small or a bit smaller and lighter than your Beretta 21. Things like the S&W Bodyguard 380, Taurus TCP, Ruger LCP etc. are available for $200-250, S&W is currently running a rebate on the BG 380.

I used to carry my Beretta .25 "Jetfire" before the Kel-Tec P32 came out, switched to the bigger caliber in the same sized gun at every opportunity. Currently the Bodyguard 380 is what I carry when I need "better than nothing".

 

[Varminterror]

I carried a Jennings J-22 for several years. With a little (lot) of tuning, it was very reliable, but it certainly lacked in power. I didn't carry it for self defense against people, but rather against snakes, and to deal with vermin on the farm. With the best of ammo, it frequently took multiple shots to dispatch a raccoon, which is performance far below acceptable for a self defense firearm.

As others have mentioned, that Beretta in 22lr is no smaller, and is heavier than the polymer 380's on the market. The 380 is limited even, but it's orders of magnitude a better choice than 22LR.