Self defense rifle for Urban Environment?

[Larryect]

I do have a shotgun and handguns.

My wife has decided I might need something in a rifle after all.

What do you consider the best value self defense rifle in an urban environment? (CA legal )

I am thinking something in .223. But not really sure. Maybe Mini-14?

 

[Preacherman]

Best value is unquestionably an SKS. Yugoslavian-production SKS's can be had in the $100-$150 range, rendered CA-legal by replacing the grenade launcher with a muzzle brake. A 10-round, clip-fed magazine is standard, and is very efficient with practice.

If you want to spend a bit more money, there are the Ruger Mini-14 and Kel-Tec SU-16CA, both in 5.56mm. Both are good rifles, but the Kel-Tec has the advantage of having 10-round mags as standard, compared to the Ruger's 5-round mag. The Kel-Tec can also accept standard M16/AR-15 mags, if you happen to have some pre-ban hi-cap ones lying around (or if you should need to rely on another source of mags and ammo in a trouble situation).

You could also look at a lever-action carbine such as the Winchester Model 94 or the Marlin 1894/1895/336, in various calibers. These are fine weapons, and I'd feel very well armed with one of them in .30-30. The tubular magazines hold less rounds, and are slower to reload, than the semi-auto's referred to above, but this is only a factor if you're in a hot firefight with lots of rounds going downrange.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Maybe, if you can find good working 10 round mags for it.

Otherwise, consider the Kel-Tec SU-16.

The "A" and "B" models are California legal, I believe. They have a special California model as well.

That and the Mini-14 are about it for your .223 semiauto choices, I think. I'd get an M1A or a Garand to back it up with, but that's me.

 

[itgoesboom]

Your in California?

First, my sympathies, I moved out just a few years ago, I remember the anti-gun climate well.

Second.

Your best choices have already been named by my betters.

SKS is a great choice. Inexpensive, reliable, accurate enough. Did I mention inexpensive? Not 5.56 though.

Other than that, I would also agree with the Kel-Tec SU-16 in some form or another. I would actually like to pick on up, and I am able to own ARs and AKs up here.

What part of California are you in? Depending on where you live, you might be better off with an M1A.

Good luck with your decision.

I.G.B.

 

[3rdpig]

If I was in your locale I'd probably go with the SKS. It's incredibly durable, accurate and extremely reliable. Stay with the internal magazine and load up a bunch of ammo on stripper clips. For what you'd pay for a single Mini14 or SU16 you could buy an SKS and at least 2k rounds of ammo, probably more.

 

[Dienekes]

SKS. I got a Yugo a few years ago to play with and with some reluctance have to admit that it serves very well. I mostly shoot M1 and M1A and of course it's not in the same category for range or accuracy. But it is sufficiently accurate out at 2 and 300 yards out here, while also being very quick and reliable at close range. About the only thing I don't like about it is the dirty Wolf ammo--but at the price I can live with it.

Of late I have been thinking of replacing the CAR-15 I had some years back and sold, or getting an AR-180, but in truth the SKS fills the same basic niche at a fraction of the cost. Probably the most bang for the buck going nowadays. Mine lives in the pickup.

A M94 or Marlin 336 in .30-30 with an aperture sight is very workable too.

 

[Larryect]

Thanks for the replies. The Kel-Tek sure looks interesting. Any idea on cost and reliability?

I'm not really experienced with stripper clips but I will probaly look at the SKS as well. I'm okay with spending proably under $1,000.

I do have a progressive reloader as well. Although I have not reloaded for rifle yet.

I am in Southern California.

 

[1911 guy]

1,000 budget

If you've got a grand to spend, why not look at some AR's? I haven'y lived in Ca since 1994, are they illegal there now? The SU16 by Kel-Tec also uses M-16/AR-15 mags, I believe. Might be a good choice for a tad bit more accuracy, but that depends on what the urban terrain is near you.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

I have two words for you

"Avtomat" and "Kalashnikov"

unfortunately, you live on the left coast, so that's not an option.

so I'd say go with an SKS. Pick up a handful of stripper clips and practice loading!

 

[yorec]

California...

Yep, Su16 and Mini 14 are aobut it in .223, and that's the only cartridge I consider viable as a true "Urban SD" cartridge.

 

[m39fan]

1911 guy - from what the guys on Calguns say the AR's are difficult if not impossible to get/own. If this tells you anything, one of the most popular (based on the number of posts) AR style rifles is built on a reciever that has a blind box magazine. You load your 10 rds. from the top via stripper clips!!!! FAL's are legal in some areas I know but you have to have the mag riveted into the gun. At that point you're down to a Tapco top cover that allows you to use stripper clips.

I feel sorry for you guys, I though it was bad enough when I living in Illinois (just outside of Chicago). I don't know how you do it! Just my .02, having seen what the liberals call "assault weapons" I would go for a Mini-14 in a WOOD stock. Keep the pre-ban Hi-Caps hidden away for a rainy day. Here's my thinking: I don't have much use for a Mini, I've never seen any with good accuracy without A LOT of time and money invested in them. HOWEVER, California politicians don't think like "normal" people. They and other politicians seem to think foreign+7.62x39= EVIL ASSUALT RIFLE. Even here in gun-friendly Indiana, the politicians and media were calling for a ban on SKS's when a LEO was shot and killed with one. You might find that you get a letter to turn in your SKS just about as quickly as you get it. The Kel-Tec "looks evil" (just look at all that black!) and uses AR mags. Two strikes. The Mini-14 uses a wood stock ("I got it because it reminds me of my grandad's old rifle he carried in WWII!") and propriatary (and small) magazines. Ruger even said that they wouldn't sell Hi-Caps to civilians. Wouldn't that warm a politico's heart (if they had one of course!). If you're not worried about getting something they'll ban later, Allen's Armory had a PAR3 in .223 a little while ago for $175. You get a legal "AK" (most of one anyway) and might be able to squirrel away some "pre-ban" Hi-caps for a rainy day. Of course, a sharp stick may be better from some of the reviews!

HTH,
Mike

 

[HankB]

A Mini-14 isn't a bad rifle - for self defense in an urban environment, it's fine.

Higher-cap mags abounded before they were banned - if you buy a mini-14, and you've been living in CA since before the ban, it wouldn't surprise me at all if you rummaged around in your stuff and found you'd bought some 20 or 30 rounders long before you ever bought the rifle - as I understand CA law (and I'm not a lawyer!) they'd be "grandfathered" and legal now.

Hmmm . . . you might also consider an M1 Garand. Not as light and handy as most .223 rifles, but it packs a heckuva bigger punch, and with an 8-round "en-bloc" clip, I don't think it has "outlaw" status in CA yet. A little over $500 will get you a Service Grade M1 from ODCMP . . . considering we won WWII with Garands, it should be good for urban survival.

 

[MechAg94]

AK-47 or AK-74 clones would be good also.

Essentially, anything with the .223 or other rifle cartridge that has good capacity and is reliable.

 

[HighVelocity]

Does the SU 16 really use AR mags???

 

[ocabj]

Being a California (AR owner), I would probably go with a M14 if I didn't own any rifles and wanted something 'urban' use. An M14 with an ARMS mount and an Aimpoint Comp M(L)2/M(L)4 would suffice. You could the easy route with a Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A, but I'd go Fulton Armory. And go with the synthetic stock for 'urban' use. Shaves a little weight over wood, plus there's less worry about stock warp.

I have an SKS and I'm not a fan of the platform. While it's reliable and will function in crap, I'm a stickler for accuracy. Plus, if you wanted to put some sort of optic on it, you won't get much out of it since a stable mount doesn't exist.

I've fired several Mini-14s and they are decent rifles. But again, there's the accuracy issue.

I haven't had a chance to actually handle and fire an SU-16. I've only seen one at my club's range and I didn't go over and talk to the guy who had it.

Garand? Maybe. I love the Garand, but the one issue most people will have is with the enbloc clip, which won't allow the easy/efficient reloading you get with a removable magazine.

 

[Mute]

I got my AR but I wouldn't feel undergunned if I were just using a .30-.30 lever action.

 

[El Tejon]

Winchester M94 or M92.

For the price you can buy 2 (just saw a M94 for $100 at a pawn shop), put on ghost ring sights, a sling and a trigger job. Practice keeping the weapon loaded and communicating with your partner.

Remember, it's about the software, not the hardware.

 

[Ky Larry]

I'd probably go with the SKS. Low initial cost, very reliable, and cheap to feed.
If AK's are available in California, that would be my second choice for the same reasons. I keep my AK and 8-30 rnd mags in my gunsafe, just in case.

 

[Mute]

M94. My personal preference. One thing to keep in mind. With a lever action you don't have to worry about having extra mags with you. With practice, you can keep one constantly loaded.

If semi is what you want though, I'd personally opt for a Springfield M1A if price were no object.

 

[GunGoBoom]

I'd run with the SU16CA, the SKS, or the Rem 7615 pump. Or one of those AR 15 pumps (cali-legal). Best value is SU16 for a detmag gun. SKS best value overall if you don't have to have a detmag. SKS's can be very quick to reload with stripper clips. But the SU16 stores an extra mag in the buttstock. Not just a whole lotta good choices really. Many threads on this subject - search for "cali*" in the subject line in rifle forum.

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

El Tejon is right. The gun doesn't do the fighting. You might be better served by spending your money for training rather than on a new rifle. Shotguns are awfully mean in a fight, provided you can use 'em well.

But if you're gonna buy a new rifle, I'd go with the Garand. Garands are everything you'd want: reliable, powerful, effective. They have best ergonomics around. Wickedly fast reloads. And with that wooden stock, no pistol grip, no box magazine, they look for all the world like a friendly, politically correct sporting gun. Just what you'd need in California, methinks.

The commie guns suck. Poor sights, terrible triggers, sub-par calibre. Their only redeeming quality is their price. Of course, it's the rifleman who matters, not the rifle, but there's no sense in trying to make your job more difficult than it needs to be.

 

[swacje41]

Don't neglect some of the non-auto military rifles. Yoeman duty has been done in the past by some bolt actions, and they are readily available today. A nice SMLE can be bought fairly cheap, and ammo is plentiful. Same with Mausers and the Russian guns.

 

[Drakejake]

Let us admit that in most parts of the country at present it is highly unlikely that any civilian will need to fire a gun in self-defense. But taking precautions is a good idea. One possibility is a pistol calibre carbine. The rifle platform allows greater accuracy without the danger of over-travel and over-penetration associated with rilfe rounds. I have and like the Ruger 9mm carbine. It takes 20 round Mec Gar mags, which now are reasonably priced. You can also find good prices on Hirtenberger 9mm subgun ammo which goes at about 1500 fps from a rifle barrel. A .44 mag carbine would give even better stopping power.

Drakejake

 

[Dr.Rob]

Why not an M-1 Carbine? The mags are all over the place (made way back when Senator!) and the price isn't too bad.

 

[ravencon]

It would be nice to have more info about your needs. If you don't really need high magazine capacity and sustained fire ability, I would consider something in .44 mag. You could do worse than a Marlin 1894 lever action.
Though its not what you'd want if you are anticipating a New Orleans type SHTF scenario.

If you have to use the weapon to defend yourself and end of being prosecuted it would be better to have "People's Exhibit A" be a "deer rifle" rather than an "assault rifle".