Seller Misrepresenting S&W Revolvers on Gunbroker

[Homerboy]

I won't give his name, because that might violate forum rules, but if you go over to gunbroker and type in S&W 65, you'll see two very bright and shiney model 65 3" revolvers. Seller advertises them as 100%, but they have been polished to a mirror shine, hiding any use that they probably had (I'm thinking PD trade in's). He had one for sale in April that he advertised as new and never fired, but he had no box or papers for it. He's been selling these mirror bright stainless S&W's for a while. He had a similar 64 a few months back. He indicates that he will ship overnight fedex( $50) from an individual, but will ship through an FFL if the buyer requests it, for an extra $25 I emailed him asking how much shipped from his FFL, because they can ship USPO priority mail, and he said $75. Now, I ship a LOT of guns. My FFl doesn't even charge me for the transaction if I'm shipping OUT, only IN to him. Even if his does require it, it would be $25 MAX to ship USPO, plus the FFL fee of $25, for a total of $50. When I pointed that out to him, he said i should find another FFL since using an FFL is a "problem" for him. We exchanged a bunch of emails, with him accusing me of not being able to afford it, since I'm haggling over $20 for a "$1000 gun". This guy will rip you off. Stay away from him.

 

[Flint Ridge]

I think he's been pushing some 66's as well.

Look at the front site/ramp awfully dirty. Seems he does a really good job of cleaning them up. However, notice how he calls it 100% bright stainless finish, he never says the gun is 100%. Somebody that is good with tools I guess or lot's of time, but at that kind of markup maybe I should too! Just kidding.

 

[Action_Can_Do]

Since when is a model 65 a $1000 gun? Personally, I would hesitate to deal with anyone who's seller name means the same thing as "fallen angel". It strikes me as someone who is either very young or not very professional. I have walked into gun stores where pornography was on display and walked out. I have no issue with pornography. Just not in a business environment.

 

[bluetopper]

Simply don't buy them then.

 

[SaxonPig]

Free market. If he is charging too much then don't buy. When enough people don't buy he will charge less or go out of business.

Ain't freedom grand?

 

[Monster Zero]

Market

Another thing the market does is identify unscrupulous / nefarious individuals.

Nothing wrong with calling the guy out if he's riding dirty.

 

[Jim K]

How is he shipping interstate to an individual? He has to ship to an FFL dealer; if he thinks that is a "problem", I have news for him about how much of a problem a federal prison sentence can be.

My advice would be to avoid that guy like the plague.

JIm

 

[Homerboy]

No, he ships to an FFl, but he won't use one on his end. It's legal. The 3 FFL's in my area just choose not to accept from non-FFL's. Individuals may ship to an FFL, but they must use fedex overnight, which would run about $50. FFL's can ship priority mail through the post office for standard rate. No more expensive for a gun that an IPOD. Just goes by the weight. So if he uses his FFL to ship priority mail, it would be MAYBE $20 bucks for the mailing, plus whatever the FFL charges (maybe $15-20). So he wants $75 to ship from his FFl, even though it wouls cost him less than half that. he has a 66 on there now that he's billing as a "99% safe queen". No box or papers, of course. Factory grips replaced with what look like wooden Hogue's. Bidding is up to $800. Somebody who doesn't know their stuff is gonna get screwed. Buffed to a high shine, but you can see the scratches he couldn't buff out. he's also got a 64 on there in similar condition. No box, of course.

 

[bluetopper]

If he can get it, more power to him.

 

[BSA1]

When I sell a gun I prefer to ship the gun myself. The main reason is I live in the country and going to a dealer costs me time and extra money. If I ship it myself I can just drop it off after work on the way home. So if your dealer insists on the gun coming through another dealer it is going to cost you more. If you don't want to pay extra thats fine with me. No need for name calling and nasty emails. There are lots of guns out there.

As for the bid being up to $800 good for him. I would like nothing better than to get double the money out of my investment.

 

[RickMD]

I'd find a new dealer. The gun needs to be shipped to an FFL - not from an FFL. How does your dealer explain a private party shipping a firearm to say Colt or Smith & Wesson and their returning it directly to the owner? I've sold a ton of guns and have yet to have a reputable dealer refuse to accept one. The dealer only requires a photo ID or in my case, a copy of my C&R license.

The only exception is buying a handgun from another Pennsylvania resident. Then the gun has to be transferred in person at the dealer's place of business or at a law enforcement agency office. God, I wish I still lived in Texas...

 

[TennJed]

If he can get it, more power to him.

And more power to the guy who rips you off?????

Simply don't buy them then.

If you do not like the thread someone is posting then simply move along to the next one.

I for one appriciate poster pointing out both POSSIBLE good deals and bad.

Several months ago I was about to purchase a couple of pairs of single action grips from someone in vietnam. I read a post hear talking about unsatisfied customers and people not recieving their products.

I did not base my decision on that one persons post, but I did do a little more research on it and found several similar post.

I decided not to buy from him and instead went with a couple of guys named private schultz and bearpaw......and I could not be happier. their products and service are oustanding.

I probably would have purchased the grips from the overseas maker had I not stumbled upon that post. So I believe complaining and moaning did acomplish something in this case.

As it turned out 2 merchants who provide a great product got some business and one who is questionable did not. To me that is how american capitalism should work.

 

[DenaliPark]

I won't give his name, because that might violate forum rules, but if you go over to gunbroker and type in S&W 65, you'll see two very bright and shiney model 65 3" revolvers. Seller advertises them as 100%, but they have been polished to a mirror shine, hiding any use that they probably had (I'm thinking PD trade in's). He had one for sale in April that he advertised as new and never fired, but he had no box or papers for it. He's been selling these mirror bright stainless S&W's for a while. He had a similar 64 a few months back. He indicates that he will ship overnight fedex( $50) from an individual, but will ship through an FFL if the buyer requests it, for an extra $25 I emailed him asking how much shipped from his FFL, because they can ship USPO priority mail, and he said $75. Now, I ship a LOT of guns. My FFl doesn't even charge me for the transaction if I'm shipping OUT, only IN to him. Even if his does require it, it would be $25 MAX to ship USPO, plus the FFL fee of $25, for a total of $50. When I pointed that out to him, he said i should find another FFL since using an FFL is a "problem" for him. We exchanged a bunch of emails, with him accusing me of not being able to afford it, since I'm haggling over $20 for a "$1000 gun". This guy will rip you off. Stay away from him.

If the guy sells a S&W 65 for one or two grand, more power to him, you don't like it, then don't waste his time with your bickering emails. Sounds to me as though you got shut down by this guy and now you're out for payback. BTW, how do you know the firearms in question have only been buffed up, as opposed to whatever his claims may be?

I think you're just plain ol angry with this guy because he bid you, and your reprehending tone, adios.....

 

[gyvel]

This guy sounds like another dealer in that area who takes old junkers and puts a high polish blue on them, shortens barrels, grips, etc. then sells them at extremely high prices.

What never ceases to amaze me is that people actually buy them. It just proves the old adage that there are people with more money than brains.

 

[Homerboy]

If the guy sells a S&W 65 for one or two grand, more power to him, you don't like it, then don't waste his time with your bickering emails. Sounds to me as though you got shut down by this guy and now you're out for payback. BTW, how do you know the firearms in question have only been buffed up, as opposed to whatever his claims may be?

I think you're just plain ol angry with this guy because he bid you, and your reprehending tone, adios.....]

What are you talking about? I know S&W revolvers and I KNOW the 65 (or any stainless Smith) doesn't come from the factory in that mirror finish. I can see the scratches. He's taking used, scratched guns, buffing them, polishing them, and selling them as "100%" or "Safe Queens". A gun so scratched that you have to buff it like that and STILL not get rid of the scratches is not 100% or a safe queen. My animosity towards him comes from his attitude. When I questioned why he was still going to use overnight fedex since he's shipping through an FFL, he accused my of not being able to afford the $20! I could buy 5 of these guns if I wanted to. I just don't like dishonest people. And the gun you buy from Walmart comes new in the box with the warranty. Not quite the same as some shyster in Florida who uses the same picture for several guns.

As for the FFL's not accepting from an individual, I understand why. On the S&W forum, there's a guy who posted on being out $1000 because the gun he bought from an FFL at a gunshow was found to be stolen. The cops called him 8 months after he owns it. He has to return it to the police. The FFL bought the guns from an individual. The guns hadn't yet been reported stolen when he did buy them. Now he's gonna be sued in small claims court by over a dozen people, and he's a small FFL who operates out of his house. I wouldn't want to deal with that either.

 

[natman]

I know S&W revolvers and I KNOW the 65 (or any stainless Smith) doesn't come from the factory in that mirror finish. I can see the scratches. He's taking used, scratched guns, buffing them, polishing them, and selling them as "100%" or "Safe Queens". A gun so scratched that you have to buff it like that and STILL not get rid of the scratches is not 100% or a safe queen. My animosity towards him comes from his attitude. When I questioned why he was still going to use overnight fedex since he's shipping through an FFL, he accused my of not being able to afford the $20! I could buy 5 of these guns if I wanted to. I just don't like dishonest people. And the gun you buy from Walmart comes new in the box with the warranty. Not quite the same as some shyster in Florida who uses the same picture for several guns.

I agree. This guy is trying to pass of well used guns, probably police turn ins, as 100% just because he's buffed the bejeesus out of them. That's dishonest.

As for the FFL's not accepting from an individual, I understand why. On the S&W forum, there's a guy who posted on being out $1000 because the gun he bought from an FFL at a gunshow was found to be stolen. The cops called him 8 months after he owns it. He has to return it to the police. The FFL bought the guns from an individual. The guns hadn't yet been reported stolen when he did buy them. Now he's gonna be sued in small claims court by over a dozen people, and he's a small FFL who operates out of his house. I wouldn't want to deal with that either.

How is requiring that an FFL be used on the shipping side going to fix this problem?

 

[AK kind of guy]

It does not suprise me all online auction sites have atleast a couple people selling misrepresented items or over priced items just research what you are buying get as much info from the seller you can if it is a bad deal dont buy from them.

 

[RickMD]

How is requiring that an FFL be used on the shipping side going to fix this problem?

Exactly.

 

[Homerboy]

How is requiring that an FFL be used on the shipping side going to fix this problem?

Well, for one thing, in the case I mentioned, the FFL works out of his home and doesn't have a poty to piss in or a window to throw it out of. He's on the hook for the firearms that were returned to the cops. 8 months have gone by and the money he made on them is long gone. Had he gotten them from another FFL, he could pass the buck onto the other guy. There would have been another layer of checks before it got to the poster who lost his $1000 gun. My 3 FFL's just don't want to deal with transferring from individuals for that reason. If the gun isn't reported stolen for a while, they're on the hook for refunding the money to the purchaser. The guy going to jail sure isn't gonna pay the purchasers. I agree it is legal to ship from an individual to an FFL, but the only 3 in my area (PA-gun friendly state, too). refuse to do it.

 

[RickMD]

Had he gotten them from another FFL, he could pass the buck onto the other guy.

Nope. If all the other FFL did was to ship the gun, he has no liability since he never had legal possession of the gun, was not required by law to check on the status of the gun, nor was it entered in his "bound book". He simply mailed it for a seller.

In this case all liability for a stolen gun rests with the seller. This is just another good reason not to deal with FFL's who work out of their garage.

 

[Magnumite]

I feel there us a need to caution forum members of this type (OP's message) of gimmickry. Look at this particular seller's feedback. All his big sells are to buyers low number feedback. Those that say let the guy hook suckers without any plausal warning, would YOU have wanted it to be you buying $1000 in bogus goods worth only 35 - 59% of that amount? Tells me you would do the same thing. He is mispresenting his product. He sold a "100% original Colt Royal Blue finish" Python with scratches in the finish, a boogered grip screw - for $2500 to someone with little gun buying experience apparently. Even being a Colt Custom Shop gun makes that a gross misrepresentstion of it's condition.
Try looking at some of the military 1911 auctions. Do not bid without an expert at your keyboard. Buyer beware.

Just my .02

 

[Homerboy]

Nope. If all the other FFL did was to ship the gun, he has no liability since he never had legal possession of the gun, was not required by law to check on the status of the gun, nor was it entered in his "bound book". He simply mailed it for a seller.

In this case all liability for a stolen gun rests with the seller. This is just another good reason not to deal with FFL's who work out of their garage

Good to know. The guy posted his dilemna on the S&W forum, and lots of posters advised going after the FFL since the seller is going to prison and will not be paying. In that case, it was not mailed. It was a face to face transaction. Either way, the seller of these guns I am talking about is trying to charge private shipping fees when he's gonna use an FFL. THAT is stealing. He's gonna pocket $20-30 of someone else's money for doing NOTHING. Still, when I asked my usual guy why he doesn't want to accept from a non-FFL, he said " I make $30 on a transfer. It's not my bread and butter. I have no idea who the guy is who ships me a gun. I'd prefer to accept from another dealer". it's his business and his call. Like I said, the other two within 20 miles of me feel the same. If I wanna find another FFL who will accept from a private person, I'll be driving quite a while, and it's not worth it to me.

 

[Homerboy]

I feel there us a need to caution forum members of this type (OP's message) of gimmickry. Look at this particular seller's feedback. All his big sells are to buyers low number feedback. Those that say let the guy hook suckers without any plausal warning, would YOU have wanted it to be buying $1000 in bogus goods? Tells me you would do the same thing. He is mispresenting his product. He sold a "100% condition" Python with scratches in the finish, a boogered grip screw and what appears to be aftermarket grips - for $2500 to someone with little gun buying experience apparently.

Exactly the point of my post. he targets the uneducated gun buyer. A person knowledgeable in these things would know that finish is not factory, that the grips he has on them are not factory, and would know the level of buffing he has done to get that "mirror finish" has removed metal from the gun, KILLING any re-sale if they ever want to. He lies when he says the gun is 100%. I wasn't taken in by his scheme. But others will be. He actually refers to a buffed model 65 as a "$1000 gun". The guy is a used car salesman.

 

[Walkalong]

I see he likes to take pics with glare and at angles which hide imperfections. Definitely not being upfront in his descriptions. Time will take care of him. When they sound like a used car salesman, I continue on my way.

 

[Geezer Glide]

It is the buyer's responsibility to educate themselves and ask questions. If you need a photo of a particular area of the gun, if the seller does not provide it, move along. Ask questions, if you don't get the answer that you're looking for, move along.