Seller Misrepresenting S&W Revolvers on Gunbroker

[Homerboy]

It is the buyer's responsibility to educate themselves and ask questions. If you need a photo of a particular area of the gun, if the seller does not provide it, move along. Ask questions, if you don't get the answer that you're looking for, move along.

How can someone uneducated in guns ask a question? It is MORE the seller's responsibility to conduct business in a fair manner, and not to lie about a product he is selling. If this guy posted his guns as "used S&W's refurbished and restored" then I would have no problem. He's billing them as safe queens, new and unfired, and in 100% condition. Members of this forum are not representative of gun owners. MOST of us can spot a fake like this guy is selling. The average gunbuyer cannot. And he's taking people for more than double the value of the gun. He's ripping people off, period.

 

[918v]

How is requiring that an FFL be used on the shipping side going to fix this problem?

Every FFL I have ran across will not return a firearm to a non-FFL if there is a problem.

 

[RickMD]

Every FFL I have ran across will not return a firearm to a non-FFL if there is a problem.

I guess someone should inform Smith & Wesson, Colt, Remington, Winchester, Savage, etc. about the error of their ways.

 

[Homerboy]

I guess someone should inform Smith & Wesson, Colt, Remington, Winchester, Savage, etc. about the error of their ways.

Shipping to the factory for the purpose of repairs or other work is not the same as transfering ownership. You can't buy a gun from the S&W website and have them ship it to your house. It's not company policy that allows this. The law does.

 

[TennJed]

It is the buyer's responsibility to educate themselves and ask questions. If you need a photo of a particular area of the gun, if the seller does not provide it, move along. Ask questions, if you don't get the answer that you're looking for, move along.

Many people use forums like these to educate themselves.

 

[Homerboy]

Many people you forums like these to educate themselves.

And many don't. Obviously anyone who buys from this guy is not very well informed.

 

[TennJed]

And many don't. Obviously anyone who buys from this guy is not very well informed.

My point is that forums and threads like this one can be used to help some uninformed buyer from getting ripped off.

All of us were less informed than we are now at some point. Some were lucky enough to be born into family or situations that helped them develop a good understanding of firearms. Some did not, and had to learn where and when they could.

I am a big Ruger and Single Action fanboy but I know very little about S&W revolvers. I do want one and am slowing trying to learn more about them. This thread has taught me a couple of things and I am the better for it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

How are we more informed or better off now than before when you "warn us" without a name to watch out for? Without full information this is nothing but a useless post that wasted time and bandwidth. (IMHO of course)

 

[TennJed]

How are we more informed or better off now than before when you "warn us" without a name to watch out for? Without full information this is nothing but a useless post that wasted time and bandwidth. (IMHO of course)

The OP withheld the name for his own reasons, but he did tell us what to look for using the search function. I found it immediately and it seems other posters had no problem finding it.

 

[Homerboy]

How are we more informed or better off now than before when you "warn us" without a name to watch out for? Without full information this is nothing but a useless post that wasted time and bandwidth. (IMHO of course)

Did you read my first sentence in the post? I wasn't sure forum rules allowed me to post his name. I told you how to find him. Nobody else had a problem. if it helps, his location is Bradenton, florida. Another screwy thing about him is his auctions are always 24 hour ones. Why not have a 7 day auction rather than 7 24 hour ones? I'll tell you why: first of all, he has a ton of these, further proof that these are PD trade ins. If they truly were the rare jewels he indicates they are, how could he have so many, NONE of them with boxes or papers? Also, having a 24 hour auction gives the uneducated buyer the impression that if he wants to get the gun, he'd better act fast, or the opportunity will pass him by. He tried to pass off one of these to me in April as "new and unfired". When I called him out on it, he didn't answer WHY new gun had no box. he simply stated "the gun comes with what I listed in the auction". He also stopped with the "new and unfired" headings. If you look him up on GB, he has a TON of auctions, all of them high dollar, MOST of them with that buffed out shine. This is a business for this guy. So why doesn't he have an FFL? If he's gonna sell 100 guns, why not have an FFL, or be partnered with an FFL (TONS of them in Florida) to make the transaction go smoother? He tells me shipping through an FFL is "difficult". Why is that? How come everybody else can do it? I sell guns on GB too. never sent them myself. You know why? Because it's cheaper for the customer. My FFL charges me $30 total to ship a gun to another FFL. If I were to send it myself, I would have to send it fedex overnight, at a cost of $55-60, which I would have to pass onto the buyer.

 

[Homerboy]

My point is that forums and threads like this one can be used to help some uninformed buyer from getting ripped off.

That's why I posted it. i wish I could include the emails we exchanged. The arrogance was unbelievable. Honestly, i like a high polish. My 686 looks like his 65's (minus the scratches). i was prepared to go as high as $650, and I probably would have paid the $75 shipping even though he was charging me double what it would have cost, but he responded with "you obviously can't afford the gun if you're gonna haggle over $20 for a $1000 gun". He pissed me off. I hope this post costs him customers.

 

[Action_Can_Do]

I don't understand the number of members here that seem to resent the fact that Homerboy has given a "heads up" on this guy. I don't know the polish or grips that came factory on every model of gun that exists. I doubt many do. Implying that only the elite gun gurus should be able to get a brand new gun from a dealer who says he's selling a brand new gun is the height of arrogance. This guy is a crook. Plain and simple.

 

[gbw]

I would not buy from him and it seem ok to me that the OP has raised an alarm. The seller is clearly not too ethical, althoug I would not call the postage business theft.

I do have a question though...

This seller has many many autions active.

It seems clear to me that this seller is engaging in the business of buying and selling firearms with the intent of making profits.

To do this legally isn't an FFL required?

 

[Homerboy]

Only if the buyer is knowlegeable enough to know what to ask, and even when you do ask a question, he responds in vague terms or becomes hostile when he realizes the potential buyer asking him a question knows his stuff. he never rersponded to me why the grips aren't factory, or why the gun is shined up like that. When asked if the gun advertised as "new and unfired" has the box and paerwork, he simply says "what i listed in the auction is what the gun comes with" S&W factory finish is a satin stainless, not mirror bright. Shining a gun like he has done removes metal, especially the cylinder face and the cylinder holes. You want metal removed from your cylinder? He's moving dozens of these to people who don't know any better.

 

[Homerboy]

I would not buy from him and it seem ok to me that the OP has raised an alarm. The seller is clearly not too ethical, althoug I would not call the postage business theft.

I do have a question though...

This seller has many many autions active.

It seems clear to me that this seller is engaging in the business of buying and selling firearms with the intent of making profits.

To do this legally isn't an FFL required?

Maybe. He's certainly more than the casual seller. He has dozens of guns listed, and he sure is making a profit on them. Wonder if he's reporting the sales as income. Wouldn't surprise me that such an unscrupulous person isn't.

 

[Magnumite]

The BATFE states in pursuit of the hobby (firearms) no more than 10% of one's gross income can be in firearms buying and sales activity. No mention of unregulated parts. As long as he isn't using this a major source of his income, he is okay. But if he makes $50K a year earned income and he made $6k profit this year on sales, I am sure the BATFE will make a social call, lettered or in person.

 

[gyvel]

Look up this listing on Gunbroker for more of the same: "P38 Baby Fat Barrel 9MM." Ellenton, FL is in the Bradenton, FL area in Manatee County. I wonder if these two guys are "related?"

 

[Homerboy]

That's IF he declares the income, which I would wager he does not. A guy so shady as this guy would probably hide it. There are a million ways.

 

[Guillermo]

He sure does have a lot of positive feedbacks

97%

 

[Homerboy]

Look at the buyers. Most of them have very few transactions. They probably didn't know any better. The guns LOOK nice, but who the hell would pay $1000 for a S&W model 65? Only someone who doesn't know any better. I would like a 3" .357, and I could afford it, but no way would I give some guy a grand for a $500 gun, especially AFTER he tried to hide the flaws and destroy any possible future re-sale value. And many of them he's the buyer. Funny this is that one of the last guns he BOUGHT from someone he returned because the "pistol was mis-represented". Of course, he doesn't give HIS customers the benefit of a return. Guess he expects an honest deal while he screws others. He has a S&W model 64 listed "as new in box". he can't say "new in box" anymore since he's been called out on it. Same mirror bright finish that hides the scratches that NEVER came from S&W. He got lucky to buy the used gun with the box. Just like I keep all my boxes, some other seller did, as well.

 

[Chindo18Z]

Action_Can_Do: This guy is a crook. Plain and simple.

This.

Kudos to Homerboy for calling this clown to everyone's attention.

This is something more serious than a cagey seller gouging less savvy buyers out of a higher market price.

It's simply fraud. He is representing his wares as something they are not.

 

[Walkalong]

It seems clear to me that this seller is engaging in the business of buying and selling firearms with the intent of making profits.

To do this legally isn't an FFL required?

Yes, and the BATF is starting to crack down on that sort of thing.

 

[oldbear]

One of the real down sides to any Internet sales site. There will always be a few dishonest folks out to take advantage of others. My personal guidelines for any Internet purchase are: 1- Must have a brick and mortar store, 2- Must accept American Express credit cards, 3- Must offer a reasonable inspection return time.
I know that I have passed up some deals following these rules and I"m sure I will again. But how many good deals does it take to make up for one $500.00 loss?

 

[RickMD]

My personal guidelines for any Internet purchase are: 1- Must have a brick and mortar store, 2- Must accept American Express credit cards, 3- Must offer a reasonable inspection return time.

I've sold quite a few guns on Auction Arms and Gunbroker. I don't make a living doing so as my screen name probably implies. By the way, it's the same name I use in my auctions if you'd care to check my personal feedback. I sell my guns, sometimes at a loss, to enhance, weed out, or simply goof around with my collection. Usually I'm lucky to break even but that's just the way it goes. The only gun I ever had returned was a pre-64 Model 70 in .375 H&H magnum. I posted in CAPITAL LETTERS and pictures that the stock had a professionally repaired crack around the tang and then the moron who bought it upon receipt complained that, "it's got a crack behind the tang". I had him return the gun, refunded his money and shipping, and sold the rifle for $400 more the next day with the "buy it now" option. The professional guide from Montana who then bought it was delighted.

I recently sold a 28 gauge Wingmaster Light Weight in near mint condition and got $425 for it. It had two boxes of AA's through it... Pretty wood too... Then there was the circa 1974 Model 14 Smith new in the box that I got $375 for 10 months ago. Yes, target hammer, target trigger, Goncolo Alves target grips... get the picture?

I guess the reason for my my rambling is that: 1) not every private seller is a crook, 2) if you gotta pay by credit card you probably can't afford the gun in the first place, 3) every website that I know of requires a 3 day inspection period for ALL sellers, and 4) screwing around with a U. S. Postal Money Order can put you in a world of hurt.

Yes, there are dishonest people in this world. I know one guy that I sold three rifles to in Alabama. He was shocked when he got the third gun prior to his sending me his payment. I knew he was good for the money so why should he have to wait and I have to make another trip to UPS when I was in the neighborhood anyway. His money order arrived three days later. I've just personally found very few folks in the shooting community to be unscrupulous and most of those who are are dealers. The crooks don't stay around very long and I personally believe there is a special hot corner of hell reserved for them. Just keep in mind that you're paying for that "brick and mortar", AMEX fees, and profit margins next time you buy.

 

[clang]

"Kudos to Homerboy for calling this clown to everyone's attention"

+1

This is why we have these forums. They are here to share knowledge. I don't understand how anyone would have a problem with this thread.