Shocked By CCH Holders Yesterday
- Thread starter MikeNice
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Webbj0219
Member
Ok first off, im on the side of Responsible drinking. I work for the state of NH liquor commission. And I live in New England, where your pretty much shunned if you refuse a drink. Lol, well maybe not that bad, not as much as it used to be. So if your opposed to drinking in anyway, your probably gonna disagree with what Im saying.
Anyway, I have a few drinks every weekend with my friends. Plus several beers here and there through out the weekend. I wouldnt want to go unprotected on the weekends becuase Im consuming alchohol. I never get drunk. Well not since I was 21 and imature, Back when drinking was a new thing to me and I wanted to out do my friends. Since then the novalty has worn off and Id rather not make myself sick to stoke my ego. I drink every weekend and Im good to drive at anypoint, never more than a beer an hour. So Im in good enough order to carry. I can see the point of not carrying if your drunk, that would be a bad idea. Doing just about anything while drunk is a bad idea, with the exception of going to bed and sleeping it off. I actually think its safer at a bar than it would be carrying at home, because at a bar they will cut you off before you get drunk. Or they should anyway, At home you dont have that precaution. The weekends are the time I figure Id need to carry the most. Thats when Im out and about. During the week, the only place I go is to work. So it doesnt make sense to me to go uprotected during the times Im at the greatest risk because alcohol is present.
Anyway, I have a few drinks every weekend with my friends. Plus several beers here and there through out the weekend. I wouldnt want to go unprotected on the weekends becuase Im consuming alchohol. I never get drunk. Well not since I was 21 and imature, Back when drinking was a new thing to me and I wanted to out do my friends. Since then the novalty has worn off and Id rather not make myself sick to stoke my ego. I drink every weekend and Im good to drive at anypoint, never more than a beer an hour. So Im in good enough order to carry. I can see the point of not carrying if your drunk, that would be a bad idea. Doing just about anything while drunk is a bad idea, with the exception of going to bed and sleeping it off. I actually think its safer at a bar than it would be carrying at home, because at a bar they will cut you off before you get drunk. Or they should anyway, At home you dont have that precaution. The weekends are the time I figure Id need to carry the most. Thats when Im out and about. During the week, the only place I go is to work. So it doesnt make sense to me to go uprotected during the times Im at the greatest risk because alcohol is present.
matrem
Member
Was going to say just about the same thing.
That .45 parked safely in your holster isn't any more likely to create havoc than an F150 parked safely in your driveway.
Webbj0219
Member
Just wanted to add another thing. Demonizing alcohol is never a good thing. Or demonizing anything, for that matter. It always leads to extremes. You either become an alcoholic or you totally abstain. Most ppl I know that were raised with alcohol being demonized become alcoholics themselves or staunch teetotalers. And they can usually relate their reason of a close family member that was a drunk for their abstaining or drinking. And the cycle just perpetuates itself. Can alcohol be abused? Absolutely. Thats bad for business for me. Because it breeds more fear and more abstention. The more its abused the less we sell. Ok so how this relates to guns (this is a gun forum) If your responsible I see no reason guns and alcohol cant mix. And if you demonize alcohol, then its better for you to not mix them. Or if your not responsible with how you drink then you should leave the gun at home. Each one of us is the best judge of that, you know if you plan to get drunk. It all comes down to responsibility in the end.
If you are impared having a gun on you is a bad idea. If you are not impaired, or not drinking at all there is no problem.
I dont usually drink (maybe 5-6 times a year and I never impair myself, I have been drunk twice in my life and it was in high school), so if I wanted to carry a gun in a sports bar with friends that do drink, I damn sure should be within my rights to do so.
I dont usually drink (maybe 5-6 times a year and I never impair myself, I have been drunk twice in my life and it was in high school), so if I wanted to carry a gun in a sports bar with friends that do drink, I damn sure should be within my rights to do so.
Coolbreeze8804
Member
+1 for Webbj0219.
It's all a matter of behaving like a responsible adult. I stopped needing somebody to tell me or legislate that behavior a while back... except for the well intentioned supervision my wife provides me of course.
It's all a matter of behaving like a responsible adult. I stopped needing somebody to tell me or legislate that behavior a while back... except for the well intentioned supervision my wife provides me of course.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Drinking while carrying a gun, or being around drunks while carrying a gun, is a bad idea; however, "Guns in bars" is actually code for being able to enter a restaurant that sells alcohol even if you (or most of the people dining) do not drink, and also (last time I checked) barred me from staying in a hotel that had a bar under the same roof as the room that I would be sleeping in. You carry for defense against robbers, muggers, carjackers, etc., while out of the home or traveling; but you cannot make the gun disappear just because you may have to eat at a restaurant that sells alcohol with meals, or stop at a hotel or motel with a bar under the same roof.
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Dulvarian
Member
Here's a more relevant question, really, so slight derail, but I kind of want some opinion on it.
Everyone is talking about alcohol, and bars.
I take Lortab, Valium, and Skellaxin (several times a day). I'm post-back surgical, about 6 months now. Believe it or not, I can consume quantities of narcotics that far exceed the realm of believability and still function normally. In fact, I can't function not taking it. Most people would fall over taking what I take with my morning coffee and cigarette. In fact, if I didn't tell you, you would have no idea that I take it.
Does that mean that I can't make rational, split-second judgments or fire a handgun with reasonable precision? (For the record, my aim is more affected by my still healing shoulder than the drugs. My first mag is about a 2-3" group at 7 yards, but drops to 5-6 by my fifth or sixth.) YMWV with each person and alkeehol based on sex, weight, metabolism, and tolerance. But it is real tough to write legislation based on the previous sentence.
Legally, there are probably a lot of things that I shouldn't do while I take those. I still drive to work, I still use power tools, I still shoot. I do not carry right now, but that is only because my permit is lapsed. Would I carry when I get my new permit soon? I don't know. I'll really have to think about it. I have so much in my system, that you can't actually prove that I had taken any if I was, for some ridiculous reason I was checked, while carrying.
This really is about the stupid legal definition of what a bar is. But what it should be about is a) changing the law to allow for consenting adults to make reasonable decisions. (Not just this one, pretty much all of them, because there is too much legalese. No offense to any lawyers in the room.) b) Making sure that gun owners, especially those that choose to carry one, prove that they are reasonable enough to co-exist with the rest of the populace enjoying their personal freedoms with a reasonable expectation of liberty and various pursuits of happiness. That they are intelligent enough to work within the system, and that there are enough of us to get something done about it.
Here's a question: How many people does it take to get something like prayer taken out of public schools? How many people does it take to get anything with a gun within five miles of it to relax restrictions?
Everyone is talking about alcohol, and bars.
I take Lortab, Valium, and Skellaxin (several times a day). I'm post-back surgical, about 6 months now. Believe it or not, I can consume quantities of narcotics that far exceed the realm of believability and still function normally. In fact, I can't function not taking it. Most people would fall over taking what I take with my morning coffee and cigarette. In fact, if I didn't tell you, you would have no idea that I take it.
Does that mean that I can't make rational, split-second judgments or fire a handgun with reasonable precision? (For the record, my aim is more affected by my still healing shoulder than the drugs. My first mag is about a 2-3" group at 7 yards, but drops to 5-6 by my fifth or sixth.) YMWV with each person and alkeehol based on sex, weight, metabolism, and tolerance. But it is real tough to write legislation based on the previous sentence.
Legally, there are probably a lot of things that I shouldn't do while I take those. I still drive to work, I still use power tools, I still shoot. I do not carry right now, but that is only because my permit is lapsed. Would I carry when I get my new permit soon? I don't know. I'll really have to think about it. I have so much in my system, that you can't actually prove that I had taken any if I was, for some ridiculous reason I was checked, while carrying.
This really is about the stupid legal definition of what a bar is. But what it should be about is a) changing the law to allow for consenting adults to make reasonable decisions. (Not just this one, pretty much all of them, because there is too much legalese. No offense to any lawyers in the room.) b) Making sure that gun owners, especially those that choose to carry one, prove that they are reasonable enough to co-exist with the rest of the populace enjoying their personal freedoms with a reasonable expectation of liberty and various pursuits of happiness. That they are intelligent enough to work within the system, and that there are enough of us to get something done about it.
Here's a question: How many people does it take to get something like prayer taken out of public schools? How many people does it take to get anything with a gun within five miles of it to relax restrictions?
Um, guys,
aren't we, the pro-gun crowd, supposed to be calm, cool, collective, and use logic to debate what rights we have? I'm sorry, but some of the posts on this thread are not what I would expect to see on The High Road. The Brady Campaign has been doing an excellent job with using emotions as the basis for their statements, maybe we should let them continue with that monopoly.
That being said, theres more than one discussion going on in this thread:
1) Carrying in areas where alcohol is served.
Some places have a greater probability of trouble occurring than others. Some places make you feel less safe than others. We could avoid these places. Sometimes we can't. Personally, I feel that just because there MAY be trouble someplace is not a good reason to refuse going there. If there is a safer option, that should be considered, but theres a difference between an increase in probability ( going to a bar), and just being stupid (walking into a gang bar wearing the clothing of a rival gang). As quite a few people have said, theres no reason why a designated driver should be banned from carrying in a bar, or a parent should be banned from carrying in a Pizza Hut. YMMV.
2) Drinking while carrying.
First, are we talking about having a beer, maybe two, or we talking about deliberately getting black out drunk? I think most people are capable of having a one or two drinks, and being safe. I am making the assumption that the gun is staying in its holster. If you have just one beer, do you give up you're car keys? How about your pocket knife? Have you ever told somebody to watch your folding knife because you were drunk?
3) Drinking while shooting.
IMO, this is not the same as drinking and carrying. When you're carrying, the gun stays in its holster, your hand stays away from the holster, and there probably isn't going to be a problem. If you're shooting though, well, thats when IMHO sobriety is a very good thing.
I forget whose Sig line it is, but "Freedom is not certified safe." We can not expect that laws must be written to lowest common denominator in society. I don't think the ideas behind our constitution had to do with limiting freedom because something MIGHT happen, or that an entire community should be penalized for a few individuals.
This just my opinion, your mileage my vary.
aren't we, the pro-gun crowd, supposed to be calm, cool, collective, and use logic to debate what rights we have? I'm sorry, but some of the posts on this thread are not what I would expect to see on The High Road. The Brady Campaign has been doing an excellent job with using emotions as the basis for their statements, maybe we should let them continue with that monopoly.
That being said, theres more than one discussion going on in this thread:
1) Carrying in areas where alcohol is served.
Some places have a greater probability of trouble occurring than others. Some places make you feel less safe than others. We could avoid these places. Sometimes we can't. Personally, I feel that just because there MAY be trouble someplace is not a good reason to refuse going there. If there is a safer option, that should be considered, but theres a difference between an increase in probability ( going to a bar), and just being stupid (walking into a gang bar wearing the clothing of a rival gang). As quite a few people have said, theres no reason why a designated driver should be banned from carrying in a bar, or a parent should be banned from carrying in a Pizza Hut. YMMV.
2) Drinking while carrying.
First, are we talking about having a beer, maybe two, or we talking about deliberately getting black out drunk? I think most people are capable of having a one or two drinks, and being safe. I am making the assumption that the gun is staying in its holster. If you have just one beer, do you give up you're car keys? How about your pocket knife? Have you ever told somebody to watch your folding knife because you were drunk?
3) Drinking while shooting.
IMO, this is not the same as drinking and carrying. When you're carrying, the gun stays in its holster, your hand stays away from the holster, and there probably isn't going to be a problem. If you're shooting though, well, thats when IMHO sobriety is a very good thing.
I forget whose Sig line it is, but "Freedom is not certified safe." We can not expect that laws must be written to lowest common denominator in society. I don't think the ideas behind our constitution had to do with limiting freedom because something MIGHT happen, or that an entire community should be penalized for a few individuals.
This just my opinion, your mileage my vary.
mljdeckard
Member
This is one way of many in which we as a society have been conditioned. to believe that guns in a place where people drink is likely to cause problems. We as gun owners and permit holde4rs should place the emphasis on education.
In Utah, I have gone into bars while carrying for business reasons many times without drinking. Not illegal, no big deal.
In Utah, I have gone into bars while carrying for business reasons many times without drinking. Not illegal, no big deal.
Ugh.
Drinking while carrying: Stay under 0.08. You can buy a breathalyzer here: http://www.buy.com/prod/personal-breathalyzer-alcohol-tester-keychain-with-parking-meter/q/sellerid/23093153/loc/67984/216024578.html
Drinking while shooting: No.
Carrying into bars, etc: Yes!
lwknight
Member
Carrying a firearm is the same as being on duty whether your in it for yourself or your family and other innocents are covered.
If you are getting snockered , you have no business with a firearm because you are not fit for duty. Same as driving. I hear ya , saying that it stays holstered. What if something does go bad and you feel the need to act? Being intoxicated you will be more like a just add danger to innocents.
If I feel like partying , I will find a safe place where I don't have to watch my 6 and I will not even have a fire arm at hand.
How can anyone say that using common sense where guns and alcohol are related , be in any way anti-gun or pro-gun control?
Going to a known trouble spot just because you feel like it is not prudent. And then adding to that , getting yourself in a compromised position by drinking is even stupid.
A drunk with a gun is no good to himself or anyone else.
I think that one of the major argueing things here is that different states have entirely different bars. There are huge differences between the northern states local area family gathering place where you can get a burger,chip and drink and the southwestern bars where fights are a normal daily routine.
I have traveled 40 states and visited several bars in a good many of them. I have been in bars where I was lucky to get out with my skin in tact. I have been to bars that are really nothing more than a coffee shop that serves beer and nothing exciting ever happens. In West Texas, you would not want anyone to be armed in a bar. If you don't believe that , just go visit a local " do-drop-in" honky tonk and stay awhile and observe.
When they get into a brawl , its everyone for himself and if someone pulls a knife, well , even rednecks would consider him a low life POS excuse of a human being and if he pulls a gun , they might just kill him.
Give some consideration to the fact that one person has a totally different idea from another of what a bar is.
If you are getting snockered , you have no business with a firearm because you are not fit for duty. Same as driving. I hear ya , saying that it stays holstered. What if something does go bad and you feel the need to act? Being intoxicated you will be more like a just add danger to innocents.
If I feel like partying , I will find a safe place where I don't have to watch my 6 and I will not even have a fire arm at hand.
How can anyone say that using common sense where guns and alcohol are related , be in any way anti-gun or pro-gun control?
Going to a known trouble spot just because you feel like it is not prudent. And then adding to that , getting yourself in a compromised position by drinking is even stupid.
A drunk with a gun is no good to himself or anyone else.
I think that one of the major argueing things here is that different states have entirely different bars. There are huge differences between the northern states local area family gathering place where you can get a burger,chip and drink and the southwestern bars where fights are a normal daily routine.
I have traveled 40 states and visited several bars in a good many of them. I have been in bars where I was lucky to get out with my skin in tact. I have been to bars that are really nothing more than a coffee shop that serves beer and nothing exciting ever happens. In West Texas, you would not want anyone to be armed in a bar. If you don't believe that , just go visit a local " do-drop-in" honky tonk and stay awhile and observe.
When they get into a brawl , its everyone for himself and if someone pulls a knife, well , even rednecks would consider him a low life POS excuse of a human being and if he pulls a gun , they might just kill him.
Give some consideration to the fact that one person has a totally different idea from another of what a bar is.
General Geoff
Member
"Common sense" was the driving force behind every gun law on the books to date.
Common sense ain't so common anymore.
Do you have any proof of this whatsoever? Other than chanting that it's just common sense?
lwknight
Member
Anyone coming in the bar gets frisked. If they don't have a gun , one will be issued.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Except in PA and multiple other states where it is not illegal.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Of course not. Even better, just like CCW OC and other such things, those states that have more permissive environments statistically show no greater issue than those states with more stringent laws.
But it's always touted as 'common sense' that making a law is somehow going to stop bad people from doing Bad Things and keep good people doing Good Things. <sigh>
CoRoMo
Member
This has been covered a few times in this thread alone. If you chose to leave the gun somewhere else, you might get killed. That's what could happen when you are helplessly disarmed.
The Bushmaster
Member
Missouri just relaxed the law on carrying and drinking. Yes we can go into bars and cocktail lounges armed and have a couple of drinks. We, however, can not make a fool of ourselves and do something stupid. We still can't drive and drink which is fine by me.
It does seem that Missouri figures that we are adult enough to know when to stop when carrying a firearm.
It's also nice that we can have a beer or glass of wine with our meal in restraunts again.
ByThe Way...so far no one has left a bar or restraunt with a bloody mess behind them.
At present I have no problem with having a responable beer or two while in public and applaud the change.
If you can't control your drinking habit you probably can't get a gun permit to carry anyway.
It does seem that Missouri figures that we are adult enough to know when to stop when carrying a firearm.
It's also nice that we can have a beer or glass of wine with our meal in restraunts again.
ByThe Way...so far no one has left a bar or restraunt with a bloody mess behind them.
At present I have no problem with having a responable beer or two while in public and applaud the change.
If you can't control your drinking habit you probably can't get a gun permit to carry anyway.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
I believe all gun laws should be based on the actions of the person in question, not on where they happen to be. I would go as far as to say that I do not think there should be any location based gun laws. Even courthouses, government buildings, schools, etc. If a person is doing something wrong or dangerous, prosecute them for that. The location is irrelevant.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Not to threadjack, but have you told anyone in an authority position about this? They day he hits and kills some 17 year old kid coming home from track practice is going to be the day you'll wish you had...
Dnaltrop
Member
Threads like this make me happy to be a CCWing, Teetotaling Designated driver.
So many drunk people, no alcohol to make the karaoke tolerable for me,
However, I'll never have to worry about my judgement being chemically impaired when people start throwing chairs.
So many drunk people, no alcohol to make the karaoke tolerable for me,
However, I'll never have to worry about my judgement being chemically impaired when people start throwing chairs.
Webbj0219
Member
Some people out there cant handle alcohol. I think different ppl have different things that there prone to. Like gambling for instance. When I lived in Nevada I gambled on occasion, I lost some money, then decided there were more interesting things to do out there, like shooting. But there are some people that get addicted to gambling. They cant handle it, they cant do it in moderation. Then they fall behind on there bills and end up on the street if they dont get help. Same thing with alcohol. Some ppl can control themselves and some cant. For me I have no desire to get drunk. If your the type that cant drink in moderation, then you should probably be seeking some proffesional help instead of debating carrying and drinking. People prone to alcoholism should avoid alcohol altogether. The ppl that arent, I dont see a problem carrying as well.
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