Shooting an armed home invader in the back?

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Sunbear,
I'm sure you forgot to add the little emoticon to show you were kidding. :scrutiny:

It's never a good idea to lie about anything in these circumstances. You need to be able to be sure of your actions without any help from creative wriiting on a statement or deposition.

Your idea about a countersuit is a good one. Might have to fund it yourself though. Most burglars don't have the assets to interest a lawyer on contingency. Tam's situation might though. Her threat sounds like he has some assets.

Jeff
 
Can you still get a restraining order, without witnesses to the threats ? If so, I would think (with no legal expertise whatsoever) that that might constitute further evidence of an intruder's intent: he had a court order to stay away, and yet he still broke into your house.

But I really don't know; maybe someone here with legal skills can chime in on this point.
 
If you ever had the intention, your post killed it. If this is brought up in court.....intention? bad intention?
 
The only thing a restraining order is good for is to establish a history of violence by the goblin. This afternoon here in Nashville, a man who was under a restraining order broke into the worskplace of his former girlfriend and killed an employee and later ,himself. There were 19 other employees in the building and none had the means to stop this monster, because undoubtedly no firearms were allowed in the building. Only armed men are free.
 
I guess I'll have to spell it out. Restraining orders are useless as a defense against maniacs. Helpful only after you have dispatched the monster.
 
Thank you for spelling it out, but that's what I was referring to. You have two monsters to dispatch: first, the physical threat; second, the legal and civil threats from the court. Nobody is claiming that having the injunction will prevent an intruder from entering your home.
 
I see both points of view... much like the other posters are saying. a restraining order is not worth the paper it is printed on in the real world....but in the legal world it will go a long way to show that you or who ever it may be had a legal and verifiable (sp??) paper trail and will show that that person took the legal way to try to stop someone. If the BG doesn't stop and that BG ends up dead..it will be easy to show in court the extent you took to resoulve the issue.
 
Actually, I don't think there are two points of view being expressed here. Just one, and one misunderstanding. I hope it's cleared up now.
 
No--the guy has no assets whatsoever. I saw where and how he lived, and he was evicted three times when I knew him. He mooched off of me. He made a big deal out of how he was "judgment proof" (less than $60,000 in assets), and from looking at his car, clothes, and other belongings, I could believe it. That made things very difficult for the people he antagonized, which was most everyone.

I will be more circumspect on what I post in public forums as far as situations like this. I see your point.
 
Tam,

Regardless of whether or not you can succeed in getting a restraining order you should still try. Even with an application there is a paper trail that could come in handy. The jury will not perceive the attempt to get a restraining order any differently than an actual restraining order.

Jeff
 
OK, Jeff, I'll take that under advisement.
Do you have any idea how much it might cost to get one of those orders (in Texas?) Money is tight right now. Also, would they take me seriously if the threats were made 3 years ago (although I *think* I saw him about 6 months ago?) or would they just say, "Ma'am, why're you just now bringing this up?"

The other thing is, I heard from an old neighbor that he got evicted from yet another place, so I have no idea where he lives. He is known to live under false names, and when I had to sue him he managed to evade being served the papers for a solid month, which made the Travis County Counstables furious. This guy is very good at not being found if he doesn't want to be. Don't you have to serve someone papers to put the restraining order into effect?

OH, wait--you or someone else said that even making the attempt would be enough. OK, maybe.
 
Hmmm. I think a case could be made (by an anti DA, perhaps?) that the threat was made 3 years ago, and you "think" you saw him six months ago, and you just asked for a restraining order, WHICH WAS DENIED BECAUSE IT WAS SILLY, and now you've shot him.

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this is at the very least an unresonable action, and I submit to you that her attempt to get a restraining order 3 YEARS AFTER THE ALLEDGED THREAT WHICH NOBODY ESLE WITNESSED, was nothing more than camoflage for her intent to murder this man and claim she acted in fear for her life."


Well, it's your decision, but I would keep my eyes open, my mouth (and keyboard) shut, and if I had any unfriendly contact with him in any form, get that restraining order.

Then continue to keep eyes open, etc.
 
There are very knowledgeable self-defense firearms trainers in Austin at www.krtraining.com. I don't know if you train butI've seen them recommended on several lists. Why not contact them and see if they know a good local self-defense oriented lawyer.

As far as restraining orders, the odds of being hurt go up after getting one. However, this is for folks who have taken no active precautions for self defense and wait for the slaughter but hope they won't be found.
 
Quartus,

I'll go out on a line to guess that Tam's good charachter will be readily supported by many people in court as opposed to potential BG' charachter.

Sometimes BGs don't show up until much later down the road, such as chance encounters or perhaps BG was doing a stretch in jail for an unrelated crime?

It NEVER hurts to get as much documentation beforehand regarding potential problems. This means much to judge and jury. After the fact claims means nothing more than "he said-she said."
 
Quartus and Silver Bullet.....no disrespect intended. In Tennessee there is no charge for a restraining order unti it is violated and then the violator must pay all costs. Very fair, I must say.
 
None perceived, SunBear. No problem. It's real easy to misunderstand a point when communicating with that ornery breed known as homo sapiens, especially on a web forum.
 
You might verify this, but I believe that in Texas, you may consider an intruder in your home as a lethal threat and threat the intruder accordingly. The same parameters do not pertain to meeting a person on the street, just inside one's abode. If the intruder is in your home, then you are in a very dangerous situation.

Give up on the stupid, spagetti western, wild west honor code that shooting another individual in the back is somehow improper, chicken, or unfair. As far as I know, especially in Texas & Florida but more than likely in every other state, there are NO laws prohibiting shooting a person in the back as a means of self defense. Either you have legal justification for using lethal force or you do not. If you do, then the weapon used and the location of your damage on the intruder is not a legal element. FYI, a couple of years ago, an Austin CHL holder shot a suspect in the back, twice, and was aquitted. The shots to the back were suggested to indicate that the CHL holder was not being threatened, but the suspect moved like he was going for a weapon. It was really stupid for the CHL holder to follow this guy and push the confrontation, but not illegal. In Florida, a cop named Alvarez had a suspect at gun point that he shot in the back. The suspect died. The argument was made that the suspect made a furtive movement. The officer was aquitted of the manslaughter charges.

If you find somebody in your home as an intruder and feel that they pose a threat to you or your family and if the intruder has made the gravely tactical error of not being aware of his environment such that you were able to approach him from behind, then it sucks to be the intruder, no? e won't be making that mistake again, will he?

Remember, just because the intruder is doing something stupid does not mean you need to do something stupid as well. In Texas, you are not obligated by law to retreat, give verbal warning, or only approach an intruder from the front. If you feel the person in your home is a threat, then it would be extremely stupid not to take care of the threat when you had the chance.

If there is going to be a shooting (as opposed to a gun fight), using ambush tactics on an intruder is one of the bettter means by which to assure a successful outcome with minimal risk to yourself. Even if the intruder survives, if he doesn't know where you were when you shot him, he will have a tough time turning on you and mounting an effective counter strike.

When it comes to situations where you have to discharge a gun, the first shot is the most critical shot as you may never get another chance. Ideally, you would like the first shot of the confrontation to result in being the last shot of the confrontation...meaning you have been successful in neutralizing the threat.
 
At this point I wouldn't recommend a restraining order; this guy has no shortage of enemies, and you don't need to push yourself back up to the top of his list.
If he's in your house, you can make a good case for shooting him. If he's armed in your house, you can make a great case. I wouldn't wait until I had a perfect case before I shot him in my house.
If you are in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
 
If you are in a fair fight, your tactics suck.


A profound statement. Deserves to be mounted on a plaque.


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I recommend renting the movie "El Diablo". One of the most realistic gunfight scenes in any wild west movie.

Anyway, one shot to the back of the head shouldn't get you in trouble in Texas if he had what was obviously a shotgun and had no excuse for being in your house.
 
TamThompson,

Reread your postings and realized we have taken your specific questions regarding your personal situation and turned it into a general discussion.

Sorry about that.

Realizing now that you have no idea where he lives and, he probably didn't even see you. It would be best to 'remain under radar' and leave him alone. For a bum like this, in the three years since you've last dealt with him, he's probably put many new 'enemies' on his list.

He probably hates so many people that he's hopefully forgotten about you.

Reminding him with a restraining order would only move you back to the top of his 'list'.
 
A profound statement. Deserves to be mounted on a plaque.
That's true. I wish I could remember where I heard it.
I think I heard it from Greg Hamilton, of InSights Training Center. It certainly sounds like something he'd say, but I'm not sure he was the source. If he was the source, I'm not sure it was original with him.
 
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