shooting from the hip?

[hso]

i can only hit out to 3 yards but i hope to improve

Point shooting isn't an alternative to full sight picture shooting at all distances, just close/quick where practical defensive fight stopping hits can be made consistently vs. the need for more precision at greater distance. 0-45ft is about the point shooting range. It is a tool in a minimally equipped defensive "tool box". At a slightly greater distance you should be going to a front sight picture and then a full front/rear sight picture beyond that.

 

[susieqz]

k, that makes sense. i'll use the same gun i use every day.

 

[Archie]

This is not a new idea.

There is a rather meaningful difference between 'hip shooting', or even 'half-hip shooting', and shooting at the 'point shoulder' position.

The meaningful difference is from the lower positions, the gun is not in the direct line of sight - only the peripheral vision area at best. Point shoulder has the gun in the line of sight, even without using the sights.

Literal 'hip shooting' from belt level gives the poorest accuracy. The sidearm is fired by 'feel' of the shooting hand(s) only. With a good deal of practice, one can hit large targets up fairly close. Some of us refer to this technique as 'panic shooting' and is useful only for self-defense at grappling distance. Or in the movies, of course.

The 'half-hip' position is somewhat better, as it possible to have some idea of where the sidearm is pointing in terms of side to side orientation. However, one has little to no ability to adjust for elevation. Which, Suzie, probably accounts for your lack of hits on the first shot.

The 'point shoulder' position - arms fully extended in front of the shooter - allows looking 'down' the barrel or slide with a fair degree of horizontal and vertical orientation. Depending on practice time, one can get reasonable hits on a human target out to about fifteen yards. (For a fuller explanation, read Shooting to Live by Fairbairn & Sykes, republished by Paladin Press.)

There is no reason to shoot multiple shots from the 'hip' position. As one shoots, one can easily move the firearm up into line of sight simultaneously. This will make later shots more accurate. If one is operating the slide between clearing the holster and firing, one should be able to elevate the firearm at the same time.

For those with a chambered round (or a double action revolver) there is NO reason to not shoot from a 'point shoulder' position more than once, possibly twice. The time to fire a shot using a rough sight picture is not significantly longer than a shot from the waist level; and far more effective.

Shooting at a snake (head shot is best) at danger range - about the length of the snake for a rattler - is more effective from the 'point shoulder' position.

However, this is America and one can do - practice - as one feels best. However, there has been more than one study done on the subject. Fairbairn & Sykes reported their work. Jeff Cooper reported his use of the 'flash sight picture' in various places.

 

[susieqz]

thanks for the explanation, arch.
thing is, snakes are faster than me n i already know the gun will make up it's own mind as to when to fire. when i killed that snake i was just watching. the gun did it by itself. i made no decisions. true story.
i'll practice all 3 positions. just to help the gun do what it wants.

 

[The_ohmman]

I think the people who are really good at point shooting are pretty much born that way. We can get better but I don't think we can all become Bob Munden.

 

[susieqz]

as long as the gun shoots what we want, when we want, everything is good.
i'll just practice til i know that will happen.
most of my practice is long range precision because it's fun.. i have been slacking off on defensive stuff.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

As far as I am concerned the true goal of point/threat focused shooting is to place a burst of bullets on the exact spot that one's eyes are focused upon.
Regardless of which position---hip, half hip, 3/4 hip or full extension--that one is using.
This will provide--and without a great deal of effort/practice/ammo--uncanny accuracy and at surpringsly long distances.

Almost as if the gun is firing itself with the shooter being a mere spectator.
Sounds to me as if you are well on your way to self mastery.

 

[susieqz]

matt, thanks ever so much for posting your course. i've pretty much memorized it.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Thank you.
Ignore those who tell you what cannot be accomplished and test your limits.

 

[Old Fuff]

I agree...

I'm always amused by those who tell us that something can't be done when it already has been. Two excellent examples are instinctive shooting, and aimed long-range shooting with ordinary handguns.

The only real reason these things are impossible is because some have been brainwashed into not trying. :banghead:

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Right on, Old Fuff
Right on.

 

[susieqz]

i've added point shooting to my daily training.
i wanna see how far off i can hit a 4'' target.
since evil bunnies are my enemies i train for them.
i doubt i'll ever need to shoot a BG, but i'm sure i'll need to shoot rabbits n snakes.
i figure BGs will be hurting from bunny practice, if necessary.
takes a ton of ammo to get good tho. it takes me thousands of rounds to improve.

 

[Archie]

thanks for the explanation, arch.

My pleasure.

thing is, snakes are faster than me...

Correctamundo! Therefore, one must practice 'situational awareness'. 'Situational awareness' is a fancy term for staying alert and working on keeping one or two seconds ahead of the threat. The exact technique varies, but the idea is the same whether the threat is a thug with a weapon, a cactus that hangs too close to the path, a snake, or some obliviot who changes lanes without signaling. Keep watching and think in advance.

... n i already know the gun will make up it's own mind as to when to fire. when i killed that snake i was just watching. the gun did it by itself. i made no decisions. true story.

Sounds a little 'zen', but I do understand. I have a target 22 that will do that in rapid fire and an old .45 Awfulmatic that does that when I get my ego out of the way.

i'll practice all 3 positions. just to help the gun do what it wants.

Excellent. You can also practice 'in your head'; run through the process without moving, at home or when you are undisturbed. One could call it 'meditating', but that term is so over used and pompous.

 

[susieqz]

i'm glad to hear that zen thing happens to others.
i was sure i was gonna die so things got strange. i felt no heat, no cold, no fear, nothing as time slowed down. i watched the gun come up n fire as soon as it bore on the snake.
of course, i now love this gun with a mind of its own more than any other possession i own or will own.
being a modern person, i will not claim there is a spirit residing in my fav gun. i will not claim it is more than an inanimate object.
i will not claim anything of the sort.
in public.

 

[grter]

First of all, separate "hip shooting" from "quick draw."

Those that combine live ammunition with quick drawing sometimes manage to pull the trigger before the muzzle is safely pointed down range.

Shooting is necessary of course, but you can learn a lot about the pointing part with an ordinary flashlight with a focused beam.

And you can learn a lot at no expense by using this forum's search feature and the key terms "point shooting," and " Matthew Temkin"

And so far as revolvers are concerned, consider a plain, old Smith & Wesson .38 Military & Police (AKA "Model 10") with a 4" barrel. Cowboy/Gunfighters etc. fast draw is 99% Hollywood myth. On the other hand the old Colt's (and copies thereof) are great fun to shoot in a conventional manner.

I liked playing around with a regular laser pointer I brought at home depot. Point it at something you want to hit. Then push the button to see how close you are. You can get pretty good at eyeballing where the laser is going to shine after a while.

You can also hold the laser beam on an object/target while you run around it or up and down or what ever doing your best to keep the dot on target while you move. I think it's fun.

Remember to eyeball the whole pointer while pretending it's a gun barrel. I would think this would help you develope some cracking peripheral vision aim.

After you do the some pop tests by keeping the laser light off and then at some point freezing and pushing the button to see if it's pointing where you think.

 

[susieqz]

i'm looking for a laser pointer i can rubber band to the gun, but so far, they need a button continually pushed to keep the beam on. i need somethin i can attach to the barrel n have the light stay on without me touching it.

 

[grter]

You can make a precise fitting sleeve out of rolled paper taped. You slide the sleeve over the button. It's sort of makeshift but it works.

 

[susieqz]

thanks, grt. makeshift is fine for a temporary training aid.