Should teachers/staff be allowed to CCW?

[James T Thomas]

The Hard Road

Take courage LkWinniepesaukee and stand tall.
They laugh because they cannot reply with a logical rebuttal.

Next will come the cursing.

Remember, you are not alone.

 

[Geronimo45]

If teachers can pass the guidelines and jump through all the hoops, why the heck not? They're people too.
More cops would be nice - but cops cost a lot of money. A CCW'ing teacher can reduce the load on the cops so they can go out where there's trouble that minute.
Does this mean teachers are going to start on a rampage, shooting their class up? How many middle-aged or older female mass murderers are there?
"You all failed the spelling test - for the THIRD TIME! Okay. That's it. I'm gonna kill all of you!"

 

[TJTay89]

I vote Yes.

I think that anyone who wants to CCW, and can legally get a license should be able to. To me all "gun free zones" do is let the bad guys know that they have a place where they will be free from confrontation until the police get there. Wouldn't it be better if the bad guys never have a place that they know is a soft target, because anyone they encounter could be armed?

 

[kludge]

kludge, not all teachers are wacko socialists.

Sorry, jcoii, quite true, and sorry Larry, it won't happen again. My sister also teaches high school (tho she won't join the teachers' union).

 

[No_Brakes23]

Yes.

No amount of weapon restriction or security will make the classroom safe from violence. Pencils, scissors, rulers, desk edges, books, or just force disparity can all be used to harm someone.

But a trained armed individual may save a life when the unthinkable inevitably happens.

Not a hard decision at all.

 

[Jeff Timm]

Allow teachers the option. Encourage off duty LEOs to hang around schools.

Pay a $1,000,000 bounty on the head of any armed invader.
Totally Tax Free.
Dead only.

Geoff
Who has little respect left for most teachers.

 

[techcowboy]

Should teachers/staff be allowed to ccw


I work in a school .I also have a state issued ccw.
I don 't understand I am not allowed to carry in the
school but anyone can walk in off the street fully loaded and kill me the kids and anyone.I vote YES!
and hopefully before it's too late.
Bersa Thunder .380
Keltec P-11
H&R Model 929
Strong Will To Keep Living

 

[misterpugsly]

I would vote yes, but with caution. Teachers wanting to CCW should have to take a special course above and beyond what is required for regular CCW, perhaps a course at Mr. Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute. They would need special training in weapon retention and other skills, probably similar to the training LEOs receive, but adapted to their particular situation.

I am a teacher with 20 years experience. I have a degree in physics, and another in secondary education. I turned down a government research job at a weapons lab to teach high school. I teach Honors Physics I, Honors Physics II (calculus-based physics), and Astronomy. By the way, I am an expert at wiping, do not drool excessively, and do not hold to the liberal agenda promoted by the NEA. (Many in-the-trench teachers are horrified at the liberal agenda of the NEA and are fleeing it, but the NEA leadership doesn't give a hoot about the opinions of its constituency.)

I'm also a decent shot with my Colt Commander, but I'd surely want some LFI time before I carried at work. Though, to be honest, I think the arguement is moot....hell will freeze over before teachers can carry.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Sorry, jcoii, quite true, and sorry Larry, it won't happen again.

Relax. My comments were made as a member, not as a moderator.

I just think comments such as "All teachers are lazy/stupid/leftist" rank right up there with "All (insert skin color/nationality here) are (lazy/dishonest/etc.)".

I will concede that teachers probably have a higher proportion of socialists/leftists than other professions, but as the father of a dedicated teacher, and a former student of a rural school district, I know that there are some freedom loving teachers out there.

 

[3fgburner]

I voted YES.

I'm currently, Gods help me, an Ed major. The eventual goal is a Masters in History, plus the required Ed credits. That way, about 10 years from now when I get tired of doing IT geeking, I can teach high school.

I've been carrying since '95. I find it truly stupid that as a student, I can't carry on campus. Hell, 20 years ago, I was a staffer at that school, after going there the first time. Had VA been shall-issue then, I couldn't have carried on the job.

Note, here, that the Federal Gun-Free School Zone act exempts CCW holders. I really hope that VA alters their law to allow CCW holders to carry, sometime in the next 10 years.

 

[kludge]

I am a teacher with 20 years experience. I have a degree in physics, and another in secondary education. I turned down a government research job at a weapons lab to teach high school. I teach Honors Physics I, Honors Physics II (calculus-based physics), and Astronomy.

:not worthy:

I wish there were more like you. My best teachers (physics, chemistry, computer science, calculus) from high were the ones that left more lucrative professions to teach, and I owe then a great deal -- they knew I wanted to be an engineer and I breezed though my first year of college.

I wish schools would pay to attract that kind of talent. Now I look back almost 20 years later and wonder if I'll have what it takes to some day make that choice.

 

[GEM]

About training - why is the school different from the mall, the library, the church or the grocery store?

All have crowded venues. If the risk is a bad shot, then idiots will be idiots in any rampage situation and take bad shots.

I would think teachers (except for the basher crowd rants) might be more sensible about risks to their charges than the internet commando.

If they can CCW, they can carry in school. How many CCW folks are training by any standard? Most don't even carry once they get the permit.

 

[profshadow]

Many people new to the teaching profession are ex-military.

Seems like most in that group might be able to handle carrying a pistol.

 

[Macpherson]

Teachers are normal everyday people too, almost all the ones I have known have been intelligent, highly responsible people, but in a school environment, it's like they would become raving lunatics who fire randomly at everything if they were allowed to have guns. Its a great disrespect to all teachers, to imply that they are not responsible enough to defend their own students, when many of them love them like their own children.

 

[Eyesac]

Put me down for a YES!

I don't think the constitution gives schools autonomy to deprive teachers of their 2nd amendment rights. Also, as far as I'm concerned, it would give these crazy Murder/Suicide monsters one more thing to worry about.

Yes all the way.

 

[misterpugsly]

Many people new to the teaching profession are ex-military.

I knew a social studies teacher who was an ex-ranger. He was one incredibly tough son of a gun - muscles like knotted ropes to the day he retired. Kept a length of steel pipe sitting on his desk, and if a kid started to fall asleep, he would toss it onto the floor.

 

[Guns_and_Labs]

I would say, "yes", except perhaps in Kindergarten, where I would hope the teacher is rolling around on the floor with the kids (I would), and should secure the firearm in a locker. Of course, the K-classrooms should probably then have additional security.

 

[kengrubb]

About training - why is the school different from the mall, the library, the church or the grocery store?

All have crowded venues. If the risk is a bad shot, then idiots will be idiots in any rampage situation and take bad shots.

As with all things, it depends.

At a school, during class, the teacher is usually standing and the kids are usually sitting. That in and of itself reduces the risk to innocents in that an attacker would likely be the only other one with a high profile. At a mall, most everyone is standing.

Paxton Quigley's excellent book "Armed and Female" has a number of anecdotal accounts of minimally trained and even completely untrained shooters using guns, whether actually discharging a round or not, to protect themselves and others.

If they can CCW, they can carry in school. How many CCW folks are training by any standard?

From 1987 to the present, 30 states have gone Right To Carry. Pennsylvania and Alaska are the only two I know of among those 30 states that have no training requirement at all.

Of the ten "Old Wave" states, I believe most have no training requirement.

However, even for those states with a training requirement, whether the standard is too high, too low or just right is probably all in the eyes of the beholder.

Relative to what COULD be the standard, the standard is very low. I happen to think a low standard, or even no training requirement, is perfectly fine, just and constitutional.

I look to the automobile and drivers licensing for comparison. Relative to what one will encounter on the highway, the "driving test" of most states is quite laughable. I don't know what the experience of others has been, but in 1984 the Maryland driving test was on a "driving range" at DMV, I never got above 15 mph, there were no other vehicles on the driving range with me, a 3 point turn, parallel parking, a stop sign, and that was about it. Upon leaving the DMV with a Learner's Permit, one merges into traffic, encounters speed limits up to 75 mph (depending upon the state in question), many other vehicles, many other types of road signs and road hazards, weather, you name it.

Most don't even carry once they get the permit.

That all depends. During the workday, yeah, most folks will likely be prohibited from carrying by their employer. Out and about, that's gonna depend. Certainly not everyone with a license to carry does carry all the time they are legally allowed to carry.

 

[mcooper]

It is wrong to prohibit the carrying of arms by citizens. These most tragic recent evcents prove that quite clearly. When a coward wouldbe school/college shooter realizes that he or she is quite likely to face an armed citizen the the comission, will most likely deter him or her. And if not....BANG!

 

[kengrubb]

I knew a social studies teacher who was an ex-ranger. ... Kept a length of steel pipe sitting on his desk, and if a kid started to fall asleep, he would toss it onto the floor.

Had a sixth grade teacher who started with throwing chalk at those who were talking when they should not be, sleeping, etc. He'd first toss it underhand, softball style, and was deadly accurate in landing it smack in the middle of your desk. If one persisted, he'd next throw the chalk overhand and peg the kid COM. Then came the erasers.

One day he had to resort to the coffee can of rulers (maybe 50 or 60 of them). Even for most of us who were attentive, it caused a ruckus. Thought the kid talking was gonna need a change of drawers.

Oh, and you always had to pick up that which was thrown and bring it back to him.

 

[Juna]

As I have said over and over again, banning CCW in schools is like banning fire extinguishers and spinklers in response to a school fire.

That's a great analogy, and I couldn't agree more. Well said.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

LOL!

Of course they should.

O why? Because, just because...

 

[Colt]

Myrick is as much of a hero as the law would allow. He was only seconds away from the shootings, yet the law had him far away from his gun.

If you really think about this, it's a false statement. The law basically says "No guns in school." It doesn't say "No guns in school, unless a psychotic individual is killing students, then it's okay."

The law didn't allow Myrick to be a hero at all. In fact, Myrick broke the law to be a hero.

So the real question is why does the public accept a law that they expect/want to be broken "when necessary"?

 

[kludge]

kengrubb wrote:

Paxton Quigley's excellent book "Armed and Female" has a number of anecdotal accounts of minimally trained and even completely untrained shooters using guns, whether actually discharging a round or not, to protect themselves and others.

That gave me another though... not that I'm a 'profiler' or anything...

Those who are doing these school shooting, going where they know their victims will be/tend to be young or female, show themselves to be very cowardly, so the presence of a firearm could be enough in many cases.

Those who are bent on suicide, or suicide by cop, may act differently/more recklessly, but an Newton said... every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Unless you meet force with force there is no way you'll win.

 

[smince]

The law didn't allow Myrick to be a hero at all. In fact, Myrick broke the law to be a hero.

I'm not an expert on Mississippi laws, but:

He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun

Near the end of the article, it states:

Joel Myrick had a gun, legally in his truck. Myrick and his gun saved lives, but they could have saved more.

Was it legal the way he carried it? According to this article, it was.