Sierra Bullets take on the .22 LR shortage.

[Skylerbone]

That's just it, prices at most retail outlets hasn't risen with demand. During the shortage I bought bulk packs numerous times from Walmart, Bass Pro, Cabelas and Midway without seeing an increase in price. Those last 3 aren't necessarily known for their stellar bargains but $24.50 for Federal Champion at a $2 premium over Walmart prices just wasn't worth quibbling about (to me) at the time. Hard to predict where prices will go in the near future but it does not appear that producers or distributors are seeing an increased profit per unit. Scalpers and some retailers appear hell bent to maximize return and as pointed out, that's just fine.

 

[ilbob]

I thought it would work itself out in time. I am now beginning to wonder if there is a longer term increase in demand that can only be dealt with by an increase in supply.

 

[pretzelxx]

Well, I like those answers from the article. I bought a little 22 pistol for the wife cause it was a good price. Didn't find any ammo for it at a realistic price, so I let it sit there in packing grease for about a year. Bought a box from cabelas online and spent almost twice what I wanted to, but better than 5 times. Shot about a hundred rounds thru it and the wife loves it! Glad I bought it. Can't wait till it's cheaper again to have her shoot a little more. In the mean time, I'm casting and reloading 9mm for her subcompact fun gun.

 

[larryh1108]

What we don't seem to get is the new shooters to the game. In the last 18 months, there has been a lot of new shooters to the sport who never paid $15 for a brick of .22 ammo at Walmart. They don't miss what they never had. To them, $50 for 500 rounds may look like a bargain to them and they pick it up and enjoy it. They don't know they are overpaying and they keep going back for that $50 brick when they run out. They are enoying it and it's cheap fun, to them, for their new toys.

If the LGS can sell every brick he gets for $50, why in the world would he sell it for $25? If he can only get 50 bricks a month, he needs to get as much profit he can for each brick because he can't sell from an empty shelf.

We keep saying that to get the supply back we need to stop buying it to curb the demand. While that may be true, if they can sell every brick they make for $50, I don't see the price getting back to $25 any time soon. Accept the new $.10 a round or sell off your .22s because it may be a while longer before we see $.05 .22 ammo again, if ever unless you find it on sale or stumble on a box at the Wally Worlds of the world.

Me? I reload and can shoot centerfire ammo for the same $.10 or $.12 a round or so. I haven't shot .22 ammo in over a year. I still have my 1000 rounds I had when this started but I am in no hurry to shoot it because it would cost too much to replace it. What's the point? If it comes back to $.05 a round I'll buy it again but until then I really don't care. Let the new shooters have all the fun with their .22s while ours sit, idle, because we are too stubborn to pay that much for .22 ammo. Who are we hurting? The ammo makers? The LGS? The distributors? No, they are all doing fine. They don't care, they sell every round they make or get their hands on.

 

[itsa pain]

Auctions are the purest example of the free market at work.

Having the Chinese dump billions of rounds and many guns here a month is the purest form of capitalism. Ammo and gun makers plotting with the govt to ban competition is not. "Competition is a sin" John D Rockefeller. One day after this post I read from Neal Knox that the BATF has banned Russian 7N6 5.45x39 ammo this is exactly what I mean a day after I said it. Maybe now an American company will come out with 5.45 ammo for $25 for 20 rounds now

 

[22-rimfire]

I know this type of reasoning is out there but it doesn't make any sense to me at all. Allowing prices to float to meet changes in demand has absolutely nothing to do with taking advantage of people.

I want you to do me a favor. I want you to never buy an item on sale.

I'm afraid that I don't understand your favor or never buying an item on sale relative to my previous statement about knowingly taking advantage of people on a price or cost basis when they often have no reference point to make a judgement on pricing.

I don't in general have a problem with allowing prices to float with demand. With promotional 22 ammo in particular, it really boils down to Walmart pricing as compared to your local gun shop pricing. I assume that Walmart can buy their promotional grade 22 ammo at prices below what a gun shop can buy it and it seems fitting that the gun shop would mark their price up accordingly. If the price is too high at the gun shop for my demand interest, I don't buy. It is as simple as that. But if I really need or want the ammunition or product, I will purchase at the gunshop price. I expect gunshop pricing to be a little higher than Walmart on the same products, but I don't expect them to be double.

I basically just wait for the price I am comfortable with. I wait because I can. If I won't wait, then I pay the asking price at the gun shop. It is really pretty simple. But there is a difference between paying $24 at Walmart and $50 at the local gun shop. I might add that all gun shops don't price 22 ammo this way.

Now, whether or not the asking price at the higher priced establishment is fair. That is a market based decision. You make your decisions based on your "need" and go from there. For me, I won't pay $10 for a box of 50 rounds of Thunderbolt 22LR ammunition. But many might.

I ran into the sales price versus MSRP of a 3" S&W M63 revolver. I wanted one, but really hadn't searched for one. When I ran into one priced above retail, I wouldn't buy it and it definitely impacted my attitude toward a gunshop that I have been doing business with for years. I wanted one, but really don't particularly need one at all. I have a lot of 22 revolvers. I might add that this shop had Walmart bulk packs priced at more than 2x the Walmart price as well as other previously common 22LR ammunition priced well above normal prices.... simply because they "could" during this shortage. They were essentially the only shop that I was aware of that had a lot of ammunition on the shelf then. But it was simply because of what I call extremely high prices.

One could say that if they sell this ammunition at these prices, that's precisely why it is priced that way and market forces had taken over. The other side of the coin was they simply weren't selling any ammo or the ocasional box at their high prices. Guess it was their choice. My choice as a customer was to say no and I seldom even go in there any more because I assume I will see the same kinds of pricing. If they changed their approach tomorrow, it would take years to change my attitude of them. They lost my trust. That's important. I have come to the conclusion that they don't care what I like, so I shop accordingly.

 

[lxd55]

Q? does this mean .22 caliber rifles have come down in cost? seems they would. time to buy?

 

[larryh1108]

Q? does this mean .22 caliber rifles have come down in cost? seems they would. time to buy?

I'm thinking the same thing if this goes on another 6 months or so. Many shooters will get frustrated and give them away. That will be the time to buy, IMO.

 

[Agsalaska]

I'm afraid that I don't understand your favor or never buying an item on sale relative to my previous statement about knowingly taking advantage of people on a price or cost basis when they often have no reference point to make a judgement on pricing.

I don't in general have a problem with allowing prices to float with demand. With promotional 22 ammo in particular, it really boils down to Walmart pricing as compared to your local gun shop pricing. I assume that Walmart can buy their promotional grade 22 ammo at prices below what a gun shop can buy it and it seems fitting that the gun shop would mark their price up accordingly. If the price is too high at the gun shop for my demand interest, I don't buy. It is as simple as that. But if I really need or want the ammunition or product, I will purchase at the gunshop price. I expect gunshop pricing to be a little higher than Walmart on the same products, but I don't expect them to be double.

I basically just wait for the price I am comfortable with. I wait because I can. If I won't wait, then I pay the asking price at the gun shop. It is really pretty simple. But there is a difference between paying $24 at Walmart and $50 at the local gun shop. I might add that all gun shops don't price 22 ammo this way.

Now, whether or not the asking price at the higher priced establishment is fair. That is a market based decision. You make your decisions based on your "need" and go from there. For me, I won't pay $10 for a box of 50 rounds of Thunderbolt 22LR ammunition. But many might.

I ran into the sales price versus MSRP of a 3" S&W M63 revolver. I wanted one, but really hadn't searched for one. When I ran into one priced above retail, I wouldn't buy it and it definitely impacted my attitude toward a gunshop that I have been doing business with for years. I wanted one, but really don't particularly need one at all. I have a lot of 22 revolvers. I might add that this shop had Walmart bulk packs priced at more than 2x the Walmart price as well as other previously common 22LR ammunition priced well above normal prices.... simply because they "could" during this shortage. They were essentially the only shop that I was aware of that had a lot of ammunition on the shelf then. But it was simply because of what I call extremely high prices.

One could say that if they sell this ammunition at these prices, that's precisely why it is priced that way and market forces had taken over. The other side of the coin was they simply weren't selling any ammo or the ocasional box at their high prices. Guess it was their choice. My choice as a customer was to say no and I seldom even go in there any more because I assume I will see the same kinds of pricing. If they changed their approach tomorrow, it would take years to change my attitude of them. They lost my trust. That's important. I have come to the conclusion that they don't care what I like, so I shop accordingly.

OK. So you don't have a problem with prices adjusting to demand. Yet when a LGS actually does it you lose your 'trust' in them? That doesn't make any sense.

My point about not buying anything on sale was that market demand goes both ways for the businesses. If you are so aghast at shops that mark things up when demand is high then don't you take advantage of them when they have to drop margin and sell items because of lack of demand.

 

[Sam1911]

Well, a lot of folks have an ephemeral concept of "acceptable" and "excessive" when it comes to how much money someone else should make.

A little bit is grudgingly ok, but anything outside of what they've come to expect is "wrong." Maybe even evil. And quite often, "hurting the cause" or "taking it away from the kids/new shooters."

Ahhh, price. One price is ok, another is not.

She: What kind of woman do you think I am?
He: We’ve already established that. Now we’re just haggling over the price.

 

[Midwest]

and ive been seeing photos and accounts that while americans had a shortage, canadian stores were flooded with 22lr. I dont mean the tiny 50 round boxes, i mean the big 500 and 1000 round bulk boxes.

I don't think there are people waiting in line at the LGS in Canada to buy ammo and turn around and resell it for double or triple the price elsewhere. For one thing, Canada requires a PAL to buy ammo. It appears that private sales of ammo is forbidden in Canada.

(tin foil on)...maybe all this ammo hoarding and price gouging is due to government agents buying up all the ammo and selling online for double and triple the cost and creating shortages in order that the pro-gun community asks the government to step in and 'do something about it'. Then they will create new regulations which require ammo purchases only from FFL dealers and prohibit private sales of ammo. Thus 'solving' the problem. (tin foil off)


Now as for Canada.......

http://www.gunownersresource.com/faq/canada-guns-general/#buyammo

"How to buy ammo"

"In order to buy any ammunition anywhere in Canada, you must have a valid Canadian PAL (or POL, if you still have one of those). If you buy any ammo in the province of Ontario, Provincial legislation requires that your PAL number — and address! — are recorded and entered into a log book kept at the store where you bought the ammunition, even if it’s just some powder."

Also http://www.gunsopedia.com/PAL

"A Possession and Acquisition Licence or "PAL" is a licence that allows individuals in Canada to possess and acquire firearms as well as ammunition. Without a PAL, you can't so much as legally buy a brick of .22 anywhere in Canada."

.

 

[buck460XVR]

and ive been seeing photos and accounts that while americans had a shortage, canadian stores were flooded with 22lr. I dont mean the tiny 50 round boxes, i mean the big 500 and 1000 round bulk boxes.

....Sounds like a conspiracy by the Canadian Government to deplete the American stock to deprive Americans the thrill of plinking. Sending Canucks dressed as Rednecks down to our Wal-Marts and Gander Mountains to wait in line for their three box limits, so we Americans can't get any! Then they take them back to Canada and hide them on store shelves!

 

[itsa pain]

....Sounds like a conspiracy by the Canadian Government to deplete the American stock to deprive Americans the thrill of plinking. Sending Canucks dressed as Rednecks down to our Wal-Marts and Gander Mountains to wait in line for their three box limits, so we Americans can't get any! Then they take them back to Canada and hide them on store shelves!

The govt never says one thing and does another right? Everything just happens by chance nothing is planned right? The same people saying gun grabbers in govt will stop at nothing to get guns from people by lying cheating distorting facts passing bad law will call a guy a nut job if he makes a suggestion as to why this shortage exists

 

[22-rimfire]

OK. So you don't have a problem with prices adjusting to demand. Yet when a LGS actually does it you lose your 'trust' in them? That doesn't make any sense.

My point about not buying anything on sale was that market demand goes both ways for the businesses. If you are so aghast at shops that mark things up when demand is high then don't you take advantage of them when they have to drop margin and sell items because of lack of demand.

I think I explained my rationale pretty well in quote of your last post. You mention my use of the word "trust". When I loose trust in a gunshop or any business for that matter in terms of their pricing, I suspect every gun or service is mispriced from my perspective, so there are no impulse buys and without the trust, I probably won't visit the shop even though this particular shop is probably the largest in my area. i really enjoy impulse buys by the way. I get tired of "researching" prices and often go with my gut, right or wrong.

My trust can be explained this way.... if I have a heating and air issue in my home, I generally call one HVAC company to come out because I pretty much trust them. If I didn't I would be calling around for prices every single time I need something done. With firearms, I don't know the pricing on every gun, but if I lack trust in the shop, I won't take their price as being reflective of market conditions at all, it is just their price.

The promotional 22LR pricing example pretty well explained my general leanings. I seldom buy promotional 22 ammo anywhere other than big box stores. I keep a good supply available and don't need to buy at whatever price is posted at a local gunshop. If I want to go shooting, all I have to do is look into my ammo cabinet and I probably have a choice of 10 different brands and general quality level (promotional, semi-target, target, and high end target loads).

I don't see many sales on ammo any more. Pricing that is considered a sale today often is way above the price I paid prior to the shortage and I probably have plenty on hand anyway. But I like any shopper am attracted to "sale" prices. I don't think they are loosing money at the sale price and sometimes question why the sale price isn't their "normal price". I find it tiring to chase sales.

I do understand that nearly everyone is trying to make as much profit on an item as possible. Sales are done for various reasons, often it is the manufacturer that is selling product to them for less, that results in the sale. (Coke or Tide detergent are good examples.) Their margin is the same. Also sales are run to clear out older merchandise, get people to visit the store and "shop", or perhaps it is traditional for the store (like Dicks for example) to sell prior to some holiday at "sale prices". I seldom actually visit a store because of a sale, but if I am there anyway, I will take advantage of the lower pricing if I need the product.