SIG Opinions and it's not another KABOOM THREAD!!! LoL!

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USMCDK

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Hey Guys and girls (If there are any one this site???)

I wanted to start a thread about peoples opinion on SIG Sauer and not just any specific weapon system. Don't get me wrong if you feel like expressing yourself about one of the specific weapon systems go right ahead, but I am not trying to limit the thread to a weapon system, you know what I mean???

So let's hear it, what's your opinion about SIG and or one/more of it's weapon systems???

I personnally like some SIG's ideas when it comes to firearms, not to keen on all of them but still there represent something and try to stick by there old slogan "To Hell and Back Reliability."

I have become kinda accustomed to some of their weapon systems, like for instance... The P250 I love the way it feels, but I still need to see how it shoots for me to make a totally honest decision about it. The GSR 1911 series is pretty nice. Fits real nice in the hand, depending on the grips, and I have seen them be fired by really good shooters at ranges local to me. Seems to be a fairly reliable weapon and accurate to. Heck I saw a guy that it was his first time shooting one at the range and he was marvelous at head shooting the heck outta his target at 20yards. I also would like to mention the P220 Match and Super Match. Just like the 1911 it has a really nice feel to it and probably just as good of accuracy (I haven't seen anything yet but hoping to get first hand experience on it)

I think SIG has taken a really good step in the right direction when it comes down to the new P250. Only time will tell where it goes and what is to come. I have heard that the P250 is selling like hot cakes, once again, from a really reliable source(s)

All in all, though SIG is kinda like H&K in price, SIG looks like it going to be a very good firearms dealer, if it's not one of the best already, in the next generation to come.

This is solely my opinion and don't mean to rub anyone the wrong way here.

USMCDK
 
Not even one other view of this thread darn maybe I shouldn't have put the KABOOM in the title. OOPS!!!
 
I don't like SIG's. I've owned three and they were all crap. They rusted easily, the trigger pulls sucked, and they were all unreliable. One, a P229, was so bad I sent it back to the factory. When I got it back, it still didn't work right, total jam-o-matic with any ammo and any magazine. I sent it back again, and it still didn't work right, so I gave up and traded it off. The other two, a P225 and a P220 were also problematic feeders. "To Hell and back Reliability", yeah right, whatever. Not even close in my experience.
If it had been just one out of the three, well I could dismiss that as a lemon, it happens, but three in a row, come on.
 
My P220, 228 and 239 .40 all go boom every time - I shoot these guns better than any others. They just feel like a real gun in my hands. I guess I like heavy guns! A full size P220 has never been know as a bad feeder!

Three bad Sigs in a row, hmmm - guess I'm just lucky - like most other Sig owners!
 
I think it might have just been you *shrugs*. I love my P239 and if I can pull up the cash together, going to be getting either a P226 or a P220 from Correia in his GB. I trust my life on my gun and it's never failed me once. I've had well over 4,000 rounds through my gun and a session where I went through 500 rounds without cleaning and no problems at all. Love the DAK trigger and it's accurate.
 
M1 Shooter, May I ask a question???

I am curious as to how three firearms could all have the same exact problem... The question at hand is, How were you holding the firearm??? Don't get me wrong not trying to accuse you of anything and or harrass you in anyway, but were you holding the firearms grip and trigger with your shooting hand and holding the bottom (i.e. the mag-butt) with your non-dominate/supporting hand??? If so... YOU mighta been jamming/misfeeding the weapon by shifting the mag too high and not letting it sit in the rested/proper position. Now once again I am not acussing you of doing it but more or less inquiring if you were.

Tell us more about you shooting style when you owned these the P-series SIG's I am very curious to be totally honest with you.

For you other shooters on this thread, I am very happy for you that your SIG are a match for you and hope that your future with SIG will be a "To Hell and back" reliable one. For M1 Shooter I am sorry that your SIG's were just "To hell and back" to the store/dealer for you. But at least you have given your honest opinion and that's what counts, yet again please tell us more about your experience with the weapons and give details too. PLEASE?????
 
I've come to the conclusion that SIG's just don't like me. Since everyone else's seem to be wonderful, and apparently I was the unlucky one who got all their bad guns. I don't know, but I do know that other pistols I've owned or own currently do not give me any trouble. They include Colt 1911's, Glocks, and Berettas among a few others.

I also realize I came off a bit harsh in my first post. I guess it's because all the Glock bashing that's been going on around here lately ruffled my feathers a bit, and I let it get to me. Sorry about that.

However, it is absolutely true that the three SIG's I had gave me a lot of trouble. After three tries, I gave up and swore I would never buy another. I don't usually go around bashing SIG's, in fact I've never really tried to even talk anyone out of buying one, as I'm sure the vast majority of their pistols are great, and I just got unlucky, three times.
I can give you the details of the problems I had if you want, just let me know.

I should also point out that SIG's are not the only pistols to ever give me trouble, but I won't go into that here since I'm already straying off topic enough.

Bottom line, buy what YOU like, whatever works for YOU, no matter what anyone else says, because the vast majority of the pistols made today are all really pretty good, be they SIG's, Glocks, HK's, Colts, S&W's, CZ's, Berettas, Walthers, Springfields, and whatever else that's a major brand that I forgot to mention.(No offence intended if I left out your favorite make.)
 
Yep, I like Sigs.

Sigs are well-built guns; but that's not the main reason I like them.
Sigs are also very accurate; but that's not the main reason I like them.
Sigs fit my hand like a glove; but that's not the main reason I like them.
TDA Sigs have frame-mounted decockers... and I have never found a slide-mounted decocker that worked well for me.

Luckily for me, Sig's frame-mounted decockers come on well-built, accurate guns that fit my hand like a glove. :)
 
Sig and HK are like the BMW and Mercedes of the gun world. And I mean that in both good and bad ways.

They've both proven themselves much more than capable in all military tests and tens of thousands of people who's lives depends on 99.9% reliability use them with complete confidence.

Pretty much any handgun from the major makers like Glock, FN, Springfield, SW, etc are most likely going to be more than reliable enough for just about everyone.

3 bad guns in a row sounds like someone bought some severely abused and not well maintained guns.
 
Were the DA triggers just too heavy in your opinion, M1?

As for reliability - all autos get testy with bad magazines. I had a P226 choke on me with the old 10-shot Clinton mags.
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Well, I guess I'll elaborate on my experiences, just to clear things up a bit. I grew up shooting DA revolvers and 1911's, so that was my previous experience before I actually started buying and trying out as many different handguns as I could.

Anyway, here we go.

1. P229 .40 S&W - This was my first SIG, and I had feed problems with it from day one. I was told it just needed to "break in", so I kept shooting it until I had fired close to 1000 rounds through it with no improvement in reliability. It would jam at least once every 50 rounds with any ammo I tried, all factory ammo BTW. That may not sound like a lot, but it sure didn't inspire confidence. So I sent it back to SIG. They said they polished the feed ramp and sent it back. It would still jam even after they polished it, so it went back again. This time they said they had to replace the barrel because the feed ramp was not to spec. When I got it back the second time, it would still jam just as often as before! These jams were all failures to feed. I just gave up and traded it off. I did disclose that I had problems with it when I traded it, but I don't think the dealer really believed me.

2. P225 9mm - I really liked this one when I bought it since it's single stack grip fit my hand much better than the double stack P229 I had before. This one worked fine with ball ammo at first, but I could not find any hollow points that it would feed reliably. Then inexplicably, it started having lots of failures to feed even with ball ammo. I thought, "Oh great, here we go again!" This time instead of sending it to SIG, I had a local gunsmith who was a SIG factory trained armorer take a look at it. He said there was nothing wrong with it, and that I was probably "limp wristing" it. At that time I had been shooting pistols for about 10 years, I know how to shoot a dang pistol properly, I was not limp wristing it. Again I gave up in frustrastion, and traded it off.

3. P220 .45 ACP - This gun worked fine with ball ammo, but like the P225 before it, I could not find any hollow points that it would feed reliably. Of course, I only tried 3 different types of JHP's in it because that's all I could find locally. There might have been a load that it would've worked with, but I didn't have it long enough to find out. I wound up selling it only a couple months after I bought it because of some financial difficulties.

As far as the triggers go. I just never could get used to them. The DA pulls seemed overly long and heavy, especially compared to the well worn S&W revolvers I was used to. The SA pulls all felt like they had too much slack, or "take up" in them, but they were decent when they'd finally break.

I also had rust issues with the 220 and 225, but not the 229 because of it's stainless steel slide. With the 220 and 225 though, after every time I carried it, especially in the summertime, it would have a coat of rust all over the slide. It would wipe right off with an oily rag, but it didn't take much of that for the finish to start looking like crap in a very short time of use. IMO, the finish was just too cheap for what these guns cost.
I have carried other guns with blued finishes and have never seen this happen with them. Maybe it's just the type of steel SIG uses combined with what I believe to be a cheap finish, but I don't know.

Anyway, I hope this answers your questions about the problems I had with SIG's.
 
I have a couple Sigs, and their ok, not my favorites right now, but they work just fine and get the job done upon demand.
I use my German P220 alot more than any of the others, it gets great groups, but just even rounds makes me have to reload the mag pretty often. :)
 
Okay, can understand the long slack between the SA shots.

On the DA pull, did you hand lower the hammer, or did you let the decocker drop it to the "mostly uncocked" shelf?

Because the "mostly uncocked" shelf gives a good DA pull, in my opinion.

As for the feed problems - yeah. I can see where unreliability was kicking you. The guy at the counter with the bum magazine said I was limp wristing the P226. Which was... unusual.
 
On the DA pull, did you hand lower the hammer, or did you let the decocker drop it to the "mostly uncocked" shelf?

Because the "mostly uncocked" shelf gives a good DA pull, in my opinion.
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I always used the decocking lever since that is what SIG said to do in the owner's manual.

I still felt the triggers were too long and heavy in DA, but like I said I was used to well worn/tuned S&W revolvers as far as DA shooting goes. By too long, I don't just mean the distance you have to pull the trigger to discharge the pistol either. I am also referring to the trigger reach. The trigger reach on all of the SIG's I owned was just a bit too far for me for complete comfort and control when they were in DA mode. I'm sure that didn't help with my perception of the trigger pull either. I have large hands, but relatively short fingers. For example, I wear large size gloves, but there is still a good half inch or more of extra space in the fingers. For this reason, I have trouble shooting most DA autos in the DA mode(but I'm still a Beretta 92 fan, go figure). So now I tend to stick with handguns that have an easier trigger reach for me, like 1911's, Glocks, medium frame revolvers, and small frame revolvers.
 
I shot a p226 Elite 9mm at a side match during a competition. LOVED IT!

Rented a p226 in .40 and LOVED IT! Best recoiling .40 I've shot.

Almost bought a p220 Carry SAO about a month ago, but ended up getting another 1911 instead.

One day I will own a Sig... Not sure what I will get when that time comes - prolly a p226 in .40.
 
I just bought my first Sig, a P229R. Absolutely the most accurate, out of the box firearm I've ever owned. It is very easy to shoot very well. I think I'm hooked.
 
I was a die hard 1911 fan until I shot my first P220. Sold off all but three of my 1911's and started buying SIG's. Its been a decision I've never regretted.

I'm on SIG #15 now and have never had a problem with any of them, new or used, including the Mosquito.

I've owned most all of the major makers guns over the years. So far, the only ones to be 100% have been HK, SIG and for the most part, Colt. S&W has been pretty good too, but I've had to send a couple back. Colt, HK and SIG are the only ones I've never had to send back to the factory.

As far as the rust issue. That is probably more an issue of the wrong holster than anything else. I can make a gun rust by looking at it, and have had problems with handguns rusting my whole life. Never had the issue with my SIG's, but by then, I had been using kydex holsters for about 10 years and it was never an issue. With the right holster and proper maintenance, rust wont be much of an issue.

I've always found SIG's DA triggers, and their SA triggers for that matter, to be very good. I'd compare them to my S&W revolvers without hesitation. SIG does offer a "short" trigger for those who have issues with reach. An easy fix, even by yourself.

M1 Shooter, it sounds like maybe the SIG's just arent for you. We all run into them sooner or later. I went through it with Glock, Springfield, Kimber, and a few others. I guess its just karma or streaks of bad luck or a little of both. If you find the one what works for you, all you can do is run with it until it dont anymore. For me, right now, I'm keeping my eye out for #16. :)
 
As far as the rust issue. That is probably more an issue of the wrong holster than anything else. I can make a gun rust by looking at it, and have had problems with handguns rusting my whole life. Never had the issue with my SIG's, but by then, I had been using kydex holsters for about 10 years and it was never an issue. With the right holster and proper maintenance, rust wont be much of an issue.
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That could be a contributing factor. I was using leather holsters with all of them. I carried the 225 IWB in a Summer Special, the other two were carried in Kramer belt scabbards.
However, I have carried blued S&W revolvers, and my blued Colt Commander in leather holsters, and even "Mexican" carried them with no rust issues, so that's what led me to believe that SIG's finish was not the best.


I've always found SIG's DA triggers, and their SA triggers for that matter, to be very good. I'd compare them to my S&W revolvers without hesitation. SIG does offer a "short" trigger for those who have issues with reach. An easy fix, even by yourself.
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The way a trigger feels to someone is very subjective. I think everyone has a different perspective. For example, I had a tuned S&W M19 that to me felt smooth as silk, but a friend of mine didn't like the way the DA pull felt. He described it as too heavy. Of course, he is primarily a 1911 shooter. That is almost all he owns and shoots.

The "short trigger" I didn't even know existed until after I got rid of all my SIG's and decided I'd never purchase another. Oh well, I'm guessing it wouldn't have helped the reliability problems I was having anyway.


M1 Shooter, it sounds like maybe the SIG's just arent for you. We all run into them sooner or later. I went through it with Glock, Springfield, Kimber, and a few others. I guess its just karma or streaks of bad luck or a little of both. If you find the one what works for you, all you can do is run with it until it dont anymore. For me, right now, I'm keeping my eye out for #16.
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Yeah, you're right, and I totally agree, SIG's just aren't for me, and I can accept that. I also had my share of problems with Kimber and Springfield, but every Glock I've had has run great. I also agree with just run whatever works well for you.

And, good luck with finding your 16th SIG. I hope you don't get one of the ones I had trouble with.;)
 
The accuracy and reliability of the older German-made P-series is outstanding, and I would expect the same from the currently produced ones based on this design. (This does not apply to the 1911s.) Unfortunately, none of those I've tried fit my hands well and I've never shot very well with them. This is a personal observation and may not apply to you.
 
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I have guns that shoot and function as well as my Sigs, but none shoot/function better. I'm sure there are bad Sigs out there, I've just never had one, or known anyone who did.
 
If ya'll have paid attention to my posts thus far, you'll have discovered my obsessive love for SIGs.

It started back in the day (circa 1999) in my youth when I owned a Hi-power and a G19. I had the opportunity to shoot a Sig P228. I had liked my hi-power far more than the G19 because of how it pointed (FOR ME, obviously each hand and gun and person's preferences are different, so I'm not glock bashing here, i do like glocks and want me a g29). The 228 felt amazing in my hand, and the effort and training I had earned with my hi-power seemed to work for the SIG.

So I sold the G19 to my little sister and bought a NIB W.German P228. It was love in its purest inanimate-object form!!!

My next sig several months later was a P232sl. It is still one of my more favorite guns to shoot though I don't CC it as often as I did for six years becuase of the 380 issues I have. I just heart the 9mm, I guess.

Fast foward a few years as I'm going through undergraduate and expanding my firearm collection (not buying sigs because I was so satisfied with my 228, I couldn't think of a SD handgun I could want more) I met a girl.

So we fell in love, did the whole "let's get married thing" and ended up Mr. and Mrs. after college graduation.

I would feel hesitant to marry a girl that didn't like guns. She was raised in a family where shotguns and rifles were common place, and shooting skeet at the farm on Saturday was a bi-monthly event (father-in-law likes that I'm reasonably competent with my 870).

She hadn't shot handguns, so we went to the range and got her familarized with them. Her favorite range gun is the .22lr buckmark, but she loves the P228 more than all my guns. I was very excited when she asked if she could keep it in her nightstand for her use as a SD firearm. She knows where the 18" 6+1 870 with buckshot is, and would go to that first because of its effectiveness, but a handgun for room-to-room mobility or purse transport seemed logical to her.

So I saw the time for another SIG. I needed to do some research, so I got me on that internet thing...

Yeah, the downhill part of the story starts here! I found that the internet had gun forums. *gasp!* I could talk with other people about guns and not be thought of as a crazy gun-toting killer. *sigh* too many people would think that.

So I spent some rewarding time here and on sigforum and decided I wanted to get a SIG that had the same size grip. I didn't know if I wanted only a 9mm gun, since I had two of those already, so settled on a 229 in 40/357. I handeled a few, including a stainless model, and after holding the stainless, I knew what I wanted!

My wife was fine with the purchase given that it allowed the "adverse" possession of the 228 to take place. I purchased a P229 ST Elite in .40 with a 9mm conversion barrel (because I have piles of 228 and 226 9mm mags). The ST model softens the .40 up real nice, and makes the 9mm seem anorexic. The 357sig barrel is on its way.

The 228 has always been a paper-punching, can-smacking, bottle-killing machine that I have worked to develop muscle memory with and have total confidence using it to defend my life. The first range trip with the 229 blew me away. I felt like I had owned this gun as long as the 228 for how it shot. The SA pull was lighter and as crisp as the 228, and the DA was a little heavier than the 228, though its supposedly 2 pounds lighter (this changed after a few hundred rounds as everything got smoothed out).

The forums have led me to believe that I'll have to get many more sigs in most models and configurations.

I have many thousand rounds through my 228 and close to 800 through the 229 so far. I know I found the weapon type that I want to use for the purposes that I have.

I can only hope that people out there will be as pleased with SIG or any other brand because this level of customer satisfaction is unreal.
 
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