Since when did Kimber quaility go down the tubes?

[Katana8869]

The company simply produces an unacceptable number of defective pistols, and further, Dennis fails to assure that they are fixed right the first time.

That is exactly what my biggest fear is here. I have seen plenty of post where Kimbers were returned to the custom shop, then came back not fixed. I do NOT want to get into that kind of circle.

I think I know what to do with it for the most part. I ordered an improved XP recoil spring from Wolff, I know that I could either file or replace the slide stop, and even though the tension on the extractor seems okay, I could either try to tune it or just replace it with one of the Bullet Proof models from Wilson.

My main reason for sending it back is that I am hoping that Kimber will go ahead and polish the feed ramp and perhaps work the chamber a little bit. But like we said above, I shouldn't have to deal with this at all.

When I spend over $800.00 for a gun, I should be out shooting it, not dealing with trying to fix the damn thing 1 week after I bought it.

 

[Geno]

As promised, I am posting 14 pictures of a defective Pro Raptor. This is "Custom" shop quality?!

Pitted bore:

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Gouged receiver:


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Firing pin block w/spur that gouged receiver:

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Pitted receiver rail:

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Failures to go into battery 7 or 8 out of 10 shots, even after 750 rounds:

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[orionengnr]

Wow, that is discouraging. I have owned four so far and have had no problems whatsoever. Mine were/are a mix of pre-Series II (one each) and Series II (three), External extractor (one) and Internal (three). All were/are alloy framed, one 4" and three 3". Each was bought used.

What did the letter to the VP result in?

 

[Hawk]

The team comprised of my (former) dealer and Kimber provided some of the most entertaining attempts at deflecting blame for FTRTBs from the weapon to the user that I've ever heard.

Limp-wrist (boring, everybody uses that one).

It doesn't like that ammo (Federal Red Box, some Fed EFMJ and assorted Cor-Bon). One wonders what it will like.

Insufficient break-in.

Poor maintenance. (It's unclear how something is, at once, both insufficiently broken in and over-used).

You must've dropped it. (in response to the safety that shattered while [trying to] shoot).

But the best example of weasel talk that I have ever had to endure has to be this one: It has a 3" barrel; everybody knows those have problems, you should buy a 4" or 5"... from us.... I could see a manufacturer claim such a thing if they didn't catalog one, but if you put in your book and / or in your display case you have forfeited all right to whine about short barrels being impossible to execute correctly. I believe my (ex) dealer gets all the credit for this one - can't blame Kimber.

History will record that removal of the type II parts cured my limp-wrist, removed the firearm's finicky nature with ammo, resolved all break-in and maintenance issues and evidently caused the barrel to grow in some parallel universe. It did not magically restore the shattered safety but there are limits to everything.

It runs like a champ now, but I'll have to electro-pencil the "Type II" markings off someday. 'Course I can't sell it or carry it but I don't view that as much of a loss.

 

[Jubjub]

I just talked to someone who was very pleased with a new Ultra Carry. I assume it's a II, though he didn't say specifically. It was a raffle prize at an NRA banquet, so I would think it would be a new new gun.

He said that it functioned great, and was surprisingly accurate for such a little gun. His only complaint was that disassembly was a bit perplexing, and the manual was useless.

 

[Kevinch]

Kimber's big problems began about 2 to 3 years back. They went full-blown at the time of the notorious external extractor!

Doc2005 - am I to understand that it is your belief that most of these problems came to be on the guns with the external extractor?

 

[10-Ring]

I had a Custom II for a while & it was okay. I bought it used so I'm not sure when it was produced, but from my experience, the II's can be nice guns. But I've read negative expiences about new guns from almost everyone....hopefully, you're that one in a million & it comes back in good working order.

 

[Sodbuster]

Not to worry Kimber's president moved on to SIG

You got that right, cslinger. You're probably aware of the discussions at Sig forum lamenting the new breed of Sigs, both the P-series and the Revolutions. And more than laments, actual... problems.

I was super surprised to see Kimbers lining the walls

I think Kimber makes a dealer purchase a minimum quantity of pistols in order for that dealer to provide Master Dealer pricing. The minimum is quite a few. A dealer can't compete in pricing if he buys only a few.

The only Kimber I ever owned was a non-Series II (the original) Ultra Carry. For all the badmouthing you hear about Officer-size 1911s, that pistol functioned flawlessly. Literally. My only concern was with the lower velocity necessitating lighter bullets.

 

[Geno]

Kevinch:

No, I am merely stating an observation. I simply know that it was in that time frame that I purchased my defective Kimbers. Of the 14 or 15 Kimbers that I have owned, all were outstanding quality in terms of their fit and function…save for 5 purchased in that 6 month period. My current Warrior is a series I style pistol (no firing pin block), and internal extractor. It functions flawlessly.

I have heard many shootists make the assertion that the problem was the external extractor. That is one problem. The external extractor would not and could not be causal to all of the problems that Kimber is facing, i.e. note the pitted barrel bore?! Ah, no relationship. The failures to go into battery? Doubtful, but it could contribute…perhaps. Whatever Kimber's problems, they need some very serious introspection. They are losing customers who historically have been fanatically loyal.

For my part, I will not take my business back to Kimber for whatever duration of time the current management runs the "Custom" shop. So long as that mismanagement persists, the causal contributors to the pistols' failures make no difference in ultimate customer satisfaction. In the end, it is the "Custom" shop that fails to make timely, and professional corrective repairs.

Doc2005

 

[another okie]

I have no inside information about Kimber, but I suspect some gun manufacturers have figured that a lot of the people buying guns, and maybe especially 1911s, fire about five rounds through them, are happy, and put them away.

People who fire lots and lots of rounds are the ones who find the problems. People like the members of THR, who are a minority.

So maybe some manufacturers have decided it's cheaper to use the high round count folks as their beta testers and fix those few guns that come back, than to get them all right the first time. All those 1911s out there with five rounds fired through them may have the same problems, but the owners will likely never know.

 

[Geno]

another okie:
I think you just nailed it Re: customers' expectations. Some people simply want a pretty face regardless of performance. If it goes "boom" they're happy. They take it home and feel content that if a badguy comes into their house that the Kimber will be there. For me, I CCW. My pistol, regardless of how pretty or how ugly must perform.

Hawk:
Oh my word! I've heard every single one of those lame excuses! Between Kimber and the sales person, they had all the bases covered! It wasn't until they stood to lose my business that they gave a dang. Well, in the end they lost my business....both Kimber and the gun store lost my business. I plan to sell my last Kimber (and I will have to sell it with a full-function assurance or free return to me), or it will never sell...after all, it is a Kimber.

Doc2005

 

[BADUNAME13]

So Doc, since it's a POS... how cheap ya gonna go?

Let me know.

 

[Gary Frost]

I have several Kimbers in several calibers,Berettas, cz and other manuf. The first thing I do is take them to my pistol smith and have them warmed up. Being an avid USPSA shooter I rarely see a pistol out of the box run at high speed wo any trouble. Also very important, HAVE YOUR MAGS TUNED TO THE GUN.
I have standing orders at my pistol smith, if a series 80 or series II be sure to inspect the bottom of the rear sight. If anything falls out when the sight is removed don't put it back.

 

[Geno]

Nomad, 2nd:

That's good! I posted it at $1,000.00. I took the post down because it said MI (only). I will repost it for all states as soon as I get new pictures to post. My Warrior is fine. It functions flawlessly. I'm just turned off on Kimber from my experiences.

In all seriousness, I refuse to sell a firearm that will not function flawlessly. I had a Kimber Ultra Eclipse that was defective that cost me $999.00; I sold it for $375.00 because it remained defective even after being "repaired" by Kimber. The Warrior is not in that boat. It's tight, accurate and reliable.

In fact, it is my home defense (night stand) pistol. That fact does not change the past experiences with Kimber, right?

Doc2005

 

[SiG Lady]

Chalk up another lucky one..

I had a Stainless Target in .45ACP for about three years and it was flawlessly reliable and never showed unusual wear (or hardly any wear at all) the whole time. Comfortable and accurate. It was (reluctantly) sold to finance a Kimber Grand Raptor II (nearly-NIB) that was purchased a few short months ago. It's been great. Barrel bushing a little tight, but that'll ease up, I'm sure, as it's more a matter of the textured finish on its surface than a poor fit. Damn gun was all-but-new when it arrived, and it seems quite accurate. Not as tight as a Les Baer, but reminiscently close.

Even took it to the range for a little workout yesterday and was reminded how nice it was. It 'feels' a little different than the Stainless Target, but no two guns are ever exactly the same. The older Kimber felt like a pair of comfortable broken-in shoes; the Raptor is the new pair of shoes, still breaking in.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

I have the Kimber Warrior which has the series I internals. I was told there might be a break-in period to smooth up the roughness when I purchased it.

I did the 250 round break-in with no failures of any type using a mixture of WWB and Rrem UMC but that's my personal experience. The only gripe I have is the Kimpro finish seems to wear off if you even stare at it.

A friend has one of the Pro-carry compact Kimbers as well which he purchased around the same time I did. I don't recall getting any failures when I was shooting it during the same break-in range period.

Granted, two pistols is far from the typical representation of Kimber products but I haven't been let down yet. I probably just won't get myself another Kimber since I'm not fond of the series II internals and I believe only their Warrior series use the series I guts.

 

[kentucky_smith]

Have 2 full-size Kimbers, a 96 manufacture and a 2006 manufacture. Both are flawlessly running and very accurate works of art.

 

[lance22]

Mixed Bag

Those photos will be hard for me to forget ... yikes ... I hope a Kimber rep reads sees them.

I bought a Kimber Tactical II (pro size) about 9 months ago as an alt carry piece. I have about 1,200 rounds through it and it's had about 3 ftf's. Not perfect but really, really good. No complaints.

My older brother bought an Ultra Carry two weeks after I bought my Kimber. He's had a lot of feeding problems with it. And, one of my friends dumped his small fleet of Kimbers because the company would not stand behind it's warranty on a faulty Eclipse that he had.

So, I got lucky ... but it's obvious that Kimber's are become pretty hit and miss as far as their quality goes. You might get a lemon, you might get a gem, and you don't know until after you buy.

 

[skynyrd1911]

It is a shame that a new $800 pistol should have to go back to the factory so soon after purchase no matter what brand it is. I guess I'm just lucky with my Kimbers & Springfields. Not so lucky with Colt & Para's.

 

[Pumpkinheaver]

I have a 5" series I Kimber and never had a problem with it. Bought a 4" series II last year and guess what, no problems. Any mass produced item is subject to having a lemon slip by QC once and awhile. I don't care if it is a Ford, Chevy, Springfield or Kimber.

 

[the pistolero]

I think Kimber makes a dealer purchase a minimum quantity of pistols in order for that dealer to provide Master Dealer pricing.

Close -- from what I've heard from several FFLs, to get master dealer pricing & services, a dealer has to purchase either $12,000 or $15,000 worth of Kimbers. And I've just been lucky, I guess. My two Kimbers have been good to me and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another.

 

[mljdeckard]

I have a Custom II that I bought four years ago for $630 from Sportsman's Warehouse, and it has been flawless in every way.

In every game of statistics, there is a measure of inevitability. Even if the odds are 1/1,000,000, someone has to get #1,000,000 sooner or later. I would not be at all concerned if I heard one guy in a shop complaining, because most of the time it's going to be a guy who doesn't follow care and maintenence rules and screws all kinds of things up and blames manufacturers. He's also got a dead transmission and a computer full of viruses.

Now, on the other hand, if Kimber has made it more like 1/100 pistols that are seriously flawed, this is something that they need to fix before word of mouth destroys many years' worth of good reputation. If their head service dept guy has so many complaints that all Kimber owners know him by name and reputation, this also needs to be examined.

What makes me crazy is listening to people who claim that any pistol in this category is unacceptable because it costs less than a Wilson/Les Baer/ Ed Brown etc. Spending 2k on a pistol certainly won't eliminate these problems.

 

[jad0110]

Doc2005,

Jeez, in your photos it looks as if a very tiny person with a very tiny shotgun blasted buckshot all around the inside of the bore.

And I see what you mean about the bent hammer in pic #10. Dropped at the factory perhaps? . I am sorry to hear about all your troubles. I hope everything works out well for you.

I won't be looking at Kimber anytime soon. I'm more interested in a back-to-basics, no frills 1911 anyway. It appears the Springer Mil-Spec is right up my alley.

 

[Geno]

I think some people have missed the reason that I posted the pics of the Pro Raptor. I agree that even the best QC will miss some. But, when they come back, for the pete sake, fix them.

The "Custom" shop director packed it back up, and returned it to me...untouched. After reviewing it, he found NOTHING wrong with my CCW pistol (that Pro Raptor). His answer...it was within spec.

Go back and take a look at that "custom" pistol, then answer me this, if you had been permitted to break it down before buying it, and you observed that damage, would you buy it?!

I will never buy another Kimber for one reason...the principle of the matter.

 

[skynyrd1911]

I understand...........