RCampb6131
Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2015
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- 35
Yes, all three are .45 cal.
Single Shots
- Thread starter Panzerschwein
- Start date
- Status
Yes, all three are .45 cal.
Mike OTDP
Member
The materials are next to nothing. It's the precision of manufacture that makes the difference. There's a vast difference between a plinker-grade firearm made to a price point and a match-grade gun designed to shoot a World Championship score.
midland man
Member
cool deal I love 45c rifles and pistols as I did a finished kit last year by traditions Kentucky rifle flintlock in 45c and I love shooting this rifle!
I had to do a quick check on Dixie as I thought there was virtually nothing outside of Lyman and Traditions that made a single shot muzzleloader under $400 and was surprised to see the Harper's Ferry at a reasonable price. However the Philadelphia derringer isn't one of the reasonably priced ones, nor is it a match grade pistol. And thought the Howdah has two barrels and locks it's also not a match gun.
OP
OP
Panzerschwein
member
They make good stuff. They're not cheap, but it's the price you have to pay. Some people appreciate them, therefore they do sell. If you're looking for a cheap plinker look for a Jukar or used GPP.
Oh, I don't mind spending some money, and I certainly prefer new, especially with BP arms as you can't know how they've been treated.
If I were competitive I'd pay the price for match grade. I just hunt and punch paper so the price for a match grade muzzleloader just isn't justifiable for me. Not to mention it would certainly eat up far too much of my hobby funding. I don't buy high dollar cigars either ($10 seems plenty to me), nor do I buy overly expensive craft beers, wines, or whiskeys/scotch. Some of it is on principle though.
If I were competitive I'd pay the price for match grade. I just hunt and punch paper so the price for a match grade muzzleloader just isn't justifiable for me. Not to mention it would certainly eat up far too much of my hobby funding. I don't buy high dollar cigars either ($10 seems plenty to me), nor do I buy overly expensive craft beers, wines, or whiskeys/scotch. Some of it is on principle though.
OP
OP
Panzerschwein
member
I've had more fun with the singles than I have the revolvers. I understand this is rarely the case for others, but for me they are worth the cost. Pride of ownership is one thing, and they are so fun.
No doubt I'd have plenty of fun with a single shot pistol as I do with my rifle. I'm not so sure spending twice as much would increase the fun for me though. I think I'd be a bit more happy spending that money on a Lyman Plains Pistol and getting an additional barrel made into a 28 ga, and maybe even enough for another barrel in the other caliber.
I have interested one friend who much prefers my rifle to either of my revolvers. I like them all for different reasons and typically take them all when I go to the range.
I have interested one friend who much prefers my rifle to either of my revolvers. I like them all for different reasons and typically take them all when I go to the range.
JN01
Member
How about one of these?- http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?ProductID=121&do=detail&Cat2Option=yes
Stony
Member
JN01...The Gun Works are the ones that built my .40 pistol I have used for competition for years ( pic posted above). Good stuff....
just out of curiosity, why is it that these single shots are more expensive than a BP revolver is it just volume sold or is it the intricacy of the lock works? Seems these should be cheaper to build and less complicated to me, but when I look I find that I can buy an 1858 or 1851 cheaper than I can find a single shot or build myself kit. I have thought many times about building one, but then ended up buying a different revolver.
Am I looking the wrong places?
Am I looking the wrong places?
aarondhgraham
Member
Thanks JN01.
That was a nice hour perusing their offerings.
Aarond
.
That was a nice hour perusing their offerings.
Aarond
.
As Mike pointed out many of them are match grade firearms. Not all of them, though, which is still questionable to me.
Comparing a match grade revolver to a match grade single shot brings us back to the question of why.
JN01
Member
I thought that might be the case. That is a beautifully figured stock on yours, is it a special ordered fancy grade? I have been tempted to buy a flintlock version, the price seems very reasonable for a semi-custom gun.
Mike OTDP
Member
A real match-grade revolver will cost more than a single-shot of equal quality.
Stony
Member
I did get an upgrade on the wood on my pistol. They make their own barrels and use quality components throughout the pistol. I got mine 15 or 20 years ago probably, and it's still shooting just fine.
A lot of people seem to question the purchase of a single shot vs. a revolver....in my experience, I have never seen a guy shoot a revolver on the line in competition that could compete with the single shots. Even the ROA's, which are fine revolvers just don't seem capable of the same accuracy possible with the single shots. TGW uses a great single set trigger that is a nice plus for accuracy and combined with the fact that you are not using a different chamber for every shot as in a revolver...they dominate the competition lines.
Don't get me wrong, I like revolvers as well and am in no way trying to criticize them...they are just a different animal that is more suited to other uses than trying to compete with single shots for accuracy.
Mike OTDP
Member
As it happens, I ran the statistics for this in preparation for the 2016 Worlds. The difference between the average gold medal score between percussion pistol ("Kuchenreuter" match) and revolver ("Colt" match) was 1 point.
Dog Soldier
member
A match grade Flint lock pistol by a recognized gun builder is most expensive. These single shot pistols are carefully carved and fitted one at a time. It takes a Master craftsman days to finish one. The prices can easily exceed $2,000 dollars.
The match revolvers are primarily produced on an assembly line and tuned on a technician's bench. They usually cost around $$1,300 dollars.
The match revolvers are primarily produced on an assembly line and tuned on a technician's bench. They usually cost around $$1,300 dollars.
midland man
Member
and I been wanting to do a kit in a Kentucky flintlock 45c pistol to match my Kentucky flintlock rifle in 45c of course!
goldpelican
Member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2015
- Messages
- 259
I've been interested in getting a flintlock for a while - something like a Harpers Ferry, but I would want it to be historically accurate, and the Pedersoli is the wrong caliber and is rifled. Are there any options out there under a grand?
OP
OP
Panzerschwein
member
Well the Pedersoli French military pistols are pretty authentic, the proper caliber and smoothbore etc. Check out their An IX:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=9952
I do have an ASM charleville 1777 in .69 smoothbore, flintlock.
In Germany, used ones are pretty cheap due to the fact this pistol has no sights. Therefor this pistol is of no use in competition.
The 1777 has in Germany a recomended load (see edit2) of 48 grains of blackpowder. I load 53 grains of czech pb 2Fg (explosia, vesuvit), because thats the load i use in the colt walker (uberti). A round ball .675 and a patch soaked wet (and 40 grains of filler) .. everybody knows I am at the shooting range. Instead of priming powder i use the same 2Fg in the pan.
Edit1:
Btw ... i was able to compare the asm replica to an orivinal 1777. The replica has a better fitting. The flintlock is sligtly different from the original due to modern production methods. To me, both looked and felt alike. Others were pointing at the differences and kept saying "dont you see?". No, i don't.
Edit2:
The load of 48 grains is well above the manufacturers recomendation. Therefore, all US users, due to liability uses, stay within the limits of the manufacturers recommendation. Explanation: Germany is a member of C.I.P., a gun barrel (and ammonition) proof house system. For example, a .45 rifled lePage pistol is proofed by use of a 10gram (154 grains) blackpowder load. If it passes, it gets a proofing mark. Afterwards, you have no legal issue using a load up to 6 gram (92 grains) in any CIP country. The US are NOT a member of CIP. The CIP proof marks on a replica have no meaning within the US. All you have is a manufacturers recommendation. Stick to it.
In Germany, used ones are pretty cheap due to the fact this pistol has no sights. Therefor this pistol is of no use in competition.
The 1777 has in Germany a recomended load (see edit2) of 48 grains of blackpowder. I load 53 grains of czech pb 2Fg (explosia, vesuvit), because thats the load i use in the colt walker (uberti). A round ball .675 and a patch soaked wet (and 40 grains of filler) .. everybody knows I am at the shooting range. Instead of priming powder i use the same 2Fg in the pan.
Edit1:
Btw ... i was able to compare the asm replica to an orivinal 1777. The replica has a better fitting. The flintlock is sligtly different from the original due to modern production methods. To me, both looked and felt alike. Others were pointing at the differences and kept saying "dont you see?". No, i don't.
Edit2:
The load of 48 grains is well above the manufacturers recomendation. Therefore, all US users, due to liability uses, stay within the limits of the manufacturers recommendation. Explanation: Germany is a member of C.I.P., a gun barrel (and ammonition) proof house system. For example, a .45 rifled lePage pistol is proofed by use of a 10gram (154 grains) blackpowder load. If it passes, it gets a proofing mark. Afterwards, you have no legal issue using a load up to 6 gram (92 grains) in any CIP country. The US are NOT a member of CIP. The CIP proof marks on a replica have no meaning within the US. All you have is a manufacturers recommendation. Stick to it.
Last edited:
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I like the reat Plains better than the Trapper that I built. I think the materials used and the workmanship when it came to making the materials are superior to that of the Trapper. The Trapper was problematic (had to redrill the ram rod hole, file down the drum so it would time with the lockplate, the brass trigger was magneticable (there had to be iron in it). The Great Plains was simpler and just better.
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