SKS and AK-47 development

[greyhound]

OK, I know nothing about the development of the two rifles except what I read here, so it seems to me that that maybe the two were adopted by the Soviets at about the same time and widely exported, but that over time obviously the AK won out.

Am I totally off base about this? I've been wondering for some time about the relationship between these two rifles.

Maybe it was like our M1/M14/M16 transition where the SKS was briefly between the Mosin Nagant and the AK?

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The SKS was developed during WWII and became standard issue for the USSR military in 1945. The AK-47 was created in 1947. It went through several upgrades and didn't become the official USSR issue until 1961. During the 50s, the AKs slowly displaced the SKS. By around 1955, the USSR stopped making the SKS. At that time, they did allow the other communist countries to start making them.

You might find these interesting:

History of the AK-47
History of the SKS

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Hkmp5sd got it in a nutshell.

Simonov based his SKS on his earlier PTRS semiauto antitank rifle chambered for the Russian 14.5mm round. Even the magazine is very similar.

If you look at the internals of an AK, you'll see that the trigger mechanism looks remarkably like that on an M1 Garand. IIRC, Kalashnikov has acknowledged his debt to Garand in this respect.

 

[DMK]

Maybe it was like our M1/M14/M16 transition where the SKS was briefly between the Mosin Nagant and the AK?

That's a good analogy, I never thought about it that way. You'll even still see some SKS rifles used by honor guards, a lot like you may see the M-14 used the same way here.

 

[max popenker]

Simonov based his SKS on his earlier PTRS semiauto antitank rifle chambered for the Russian 14.5mm round. Even the magazine is very similar.

Actually, SKS was based on Simonov's experimental self-loading rifle in 7.62x54R (circa 1942, IIRC). By the end of WW2 Simonov also developed several bolt-action carbines in 7.62x39 (apparently, for 2nd line troops etc) but these never went past prototype stages. Kalashnikov AK was standartized in 1949. By the late 1980s there still were some SKS in non-infantry units of Soviet Army (coastal navy units, Air defence etc); In the late 1990s there still were some 7.62mm AKM in non-infantry units (while 5.45 was declared standard in 1974)

first practical assult rifle in 7.62x39 (it was the 7.62x41 then) was developed by mid-1944 by Sudaev; but his severe illness and untimely death in 1946 (he was only 33) resulted in demise of this promising design.

 

[MicroBalrog]

Dear Mr. Popenker, what about the Fedorov Assault Rifle (Avtomat Fedorova)?

 

[mattd]

If we had 6 fingers total would the sks still hold 10 rounds or 6?

 

[max popenker]

what about the Fedorov Assault Rifle (Avtomat Fedorova)?

well, the Fedorov Automat is usually claimed as a world's first assult rifle, but this isn't exactly so. Circa 1913 Col. Fedorov of Russian Artillery Comitee proposed a new, rimless cartridge of reduced caliber (6.5mm / .260), with improved ballistics; the proposed case lenght was about 2 inches, and ballistic was close to 6.5mm Arisaka; with the start of WW1, Fedorov redesigned his automatic rifle (designated as Avtomat since early 1920s) for readily available 6.5x50SR Arisaka ammunition; its tactical role was of general purpose infantry rifle, like modern "assult" rifles, but its ballistics and properties were most typical for so called "battle rifles"; the 6.5x50 was still not an intermediate cartridge.

Interestingly, Fedorov was promoter of 6.5mm/.260 caliber for all his life; now US plans to adopt the 6.8x42 Rem SPC, which is damn carbon copy of early post-WW2 Fedorov ideas good ideas never die, but "there's no prophet in own land" :banghead: