Slingshot or slide release when reloading a 1911?

[1911Tuner]

Those who say that have never been there - total bollocks.

If you shoot to slidelock, you've screwed up. Slidelocked/empty is essentially a stoppage. That it's an engineered stoppage doesn't change that. A stoppage is not what you want to happen, because it takes time to recognize that the gun has stopped. Time to find out why, and formulate a plan to eliminate it. Time to eliminate it...and time is a luxury that you can't really afford.

Better for you to decide when to reload than for the gun to decide for you.

 

[Ltlabner]

You do not live at the whim of a primal defense mechanism. Mastering your own actions and responses is what seperates us from the apes. Personally, I have higher aspirations than dragging my knuckles and licking ants off a stick.

I think you understood my post perfectly, you've just not seen the other side of the argument.

You are confusing two issues; Training and phisological responces. Sure, if you train and train to always go right to the slide release chances are it woln't be a problem for you when the poopie hits the fan (unless, of corse, it's wet, dark, you're injured, the slide release lever breaks off, etc This woln't prevent you from activating the slide release, but will certinally make it more difficult).

As you said the training conditions you to deal with the phisological responce. Sadly, however, the vast majority of gun owners don't train. They buy a gun, shoot a few rounds (25 to 100) every once in a great while and never take a class, dryfire, do walk-throughs, or anything. They've purchased their magic shield and they are safe...

For those folks, the chances of them finding that little slide release when the crap starts to fly are slim and none (assuming they even make it that far into the fight).

And none of this adresses that with my hand, I can't reach the slide release without shifting the grip on the gun. In the middle of a gunfight the last thing I want to do is be looking down at the weapon and shifting it around in my hand. With the slingshot I can keep a eye on the target, rack the slide and require the target.

That's just what works for me. If someone honestly trains and shoots enough rounds that they can instinivley find the slide release every time without looking then it's not a problem either. But your whole point hinges on people training enough to deal with the phisological responces when the facts show that most people don't actually do that.

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

I use the slide release on my XD, it just feels natural, the thumb goes right to it.

 

[1911 guy]

Quote:
And none of this adresses that with my hand, I can't reach the slide release without shifting the grip on the gun.

The left thumb should operate the slide stop during the reload so the right hand never breaks firing grip. Again, a training issue.

Quote:
As you said the training conditions you to deal with the phisological responce. Sadly, however, the vast majority of gun owners don't train.

That's not my problem. Sorry to sound crass and unfeeling, but knowing that training will solve a potential problem, yet ignoring the solution, is just plain silly. Let me be clear I'm not directing the adjective at you personally, you seem to grasp the issue well enough to discuss it. Just as I know that buying a really nice set of wrenches doesn't make me the certified Master Mechanic my father was (he "retired" and became a preacher), buying a firearm doesn't make you proficient in it's use or capable of dealing with life and death situatioins. That's a training issue.

 

[dalepres]

You do not live at the whim of a primal defense mechanism. Mastering your own actions and responses is what seperates us from the apes. Personally, I have higher aspirations than dragging my knuckles and licking ants off a stick.

Have you ever tried licking ants of a stick? It might be better than you think. I can't say, I've never tried it either.

I'm left handed. Sweeping the slide release with the off hand is not possible for me. But then, I get the advantage of a longer-reaching index finger for the slide release. It works pretty well with practice.

I've never shot a Glock and had no idea that any semi-auto did not have a slide release. Requiring a two handed operation to release the slide sounds very dangerous to me. I hope those who use them never lose the use of one hand in any defensive situation. I'm crossing all the Glocks or other semi-autos without slide releases off my wish list.

 

[Ltlabner]

The left thumb should operate the slide stop during the reload so the right hand never breaks firing grip. Again, a training issue.

*Should* but my thumb doesn't reach the release catch without shifting my grip, as I said in my last post. Train all day long, it aint going to make my thumb longer.

That's not my problem. Sorry to sound crass and unfeeling, but knowing that training will solve a potential problem, yet ignoring the solution, is just plain silly.

Of corse it's silly. But doesn't change the fact that lots of people woln't do it (train). If they aren't going to train then they might as well take the more approach that has the greater chance of working under-stress.

 

[AndyC]

If you shoot to slidelock, you've screwed up.

I disagree totally. I've had one experience where I had no time to do anything but to shoot empty - I'm quite familiar with the concept and practice of tactical reloads, but there was simply no time to perform this. Saying that it's a screw-up is ignoring the fact that life isn't perfect and bad stuff happens.

 

[1911 guy]

I've never shot a Glock and had no idea that any semi-auto did not have a slide release. Requiring a two handed operation to release the slide sounds very dangerous to me.

Lots of autos have no external slide stop. My wife carries a SIG without one. The only external controls are a trigger and decocker. The Glocks have one, but many people find it hand to use due to its size and shape. And what exactly is dangerous about using two hands? You use two hands to slingshot, don't you?

Have you ever tried licking ants of a stick? It might be better than you think

I've done lots of stuff I won't admit to in public. Oh, wait, this is public. Dang.

 

[Rustynuts]

Do you really think our soldiers manipulate weapons, think strategically and tactically on their feet and under fire and never have "episodes"? What keeps them alive is training, to include stress management (polite term for "crap yourself later, not now) to defeat the immediate stress.

You do not live at the whim of a primal defense mechanism. Mastering your own actions and responses is what seperates us from the apes. Personally, I have higher aspirations than dragging my knuckles and licking ants off a stick.

While this may be true for warriors, what about your average Joe on the street. Not everyone wants to take weeks of training, and continually practice To make this happen automatically. Do you think these same warriors will react identically 30-yrs out of the military? Maybe, but doubtful unless training is maintained. Not everyone can be a Bhuddist monk in controlling emotions.

You analogy of Ms. Assam doesn't hold water either. Scared during? That's fight/flight/adrenaline talking. Breakdown after? That's PTSD or the aftermath of adrenaline. There's still no accounting for what happens once that adrenaline hits the blood.

 

[Rustynuts]

I've never shot a Glock and had no idea that any semi-auto did not have a slide release. Requiring a two handed operation to release the slide sounds very dangerous to me. I hope those who use them never lose the use of one hand in any defensive situation.

Lots of small pocket guns go without these to save space/weight. My P3AT doesn't have one. The other issue with cheap guns like these is they don't always like dry fire and can break! Shot the P3AT to empty, "CLICK", maybe break gun!

I hope those who use them never lose the use of one hand in any defensive situation.

That's why you should have a straight front combat rear site. You rack it on the heel of your shoe. All these carry pistols with smooth ramping fronts on the sights don't make sense. You need non-snag on draw, not necessarily on holstering (at least as important).

 

[AndABeer]

Slingshot does not work with any of the later model Kimbers I have used. Notch is incorrectly placed I suppose.

 

[weisse52]

Slide stop, cause that is how I learned to do it 30+ years ago and it works.

 

[loop]

I was taught and have taught to release with the overhand grip on the slide.

In the event of a failure the first step is to rack the slide. If you do it overhand it will clear a stovepipe automatically. No further action is required.

Most people will not really know why their gun went click in the heat of action. It could be a jam it could be the gun is empty.

They will drop the mag, stick in a fresh one, release the slide and try and fire again. Overhand racking clears one of the possible failures without even checking to see if there was a failure.

It should also be part of the tap, rack bang, failure drill. So if all you practice is slide release or slingshot what happens if you have a stovepipe under fire? Something's wrong, what? Give me a minute. I need to look at my gun?

Slingshotting looks cool, but overhand is why high-end guns have front slide serrations.

Come to think of it, I won't buy a full-size auto that doesn't have front slide serrations. Oh yeah, so do most of my compacts...

I go through about 1,000 rounds a month of .45 in competition, practice, teaching or taking classes. I shoot a variety of guns. I virtually never use the slide release. It's too easy to forget which gun I'm shooting and the one I have at the moment may not even have a slide release.

 

[Hoffy]

Slide release.

 

[Murdock]

Slingshotting looks cool, but overhand is why high-end guns have front slide serrations.

I was with you, Loop, on the overhand reach for clearing stovepipes, etc., until the front serrations came into the picture.

How do front serrations allow the hand to be positioned for the "overhand" method you describe? I can't quite picture it. To reach overhand to use the rear serrations, the left thumb (right-handed shooter) and the side of the left index finger would contact the slide. (Wipe, then rack).

Using the front serrations, do you rack, then wipe?