brett30030
Member
Brilliant
Small 9mm Kel-tec vs Kahr
- Thread starter GunLvrNLearner
- Start date
- Status
Brilliant
Kahr verdict still out
My PM9 was the most unreliable gun I've ever purchased. After 386 rounds and about 50 problems I sent it back to Kahr. I wasn't happy about them refusing to cover the shipping ($58.00) but I had no choice. I had it back 5 days later with a new barrel, extractor and rebound spring plus some polishing. That's some fast service but I have yet to fire it. That will happen later this week. I love the size and feel of the PM9 but it will take some doings to build my confidence in it. In the mean time it's my 66 for pd until I get my hands on a pre-lock 60. Hopefully I'm on to what sounds like a nice one and priced fair for the both of us. If you go with a PM9, shoot it a lot before you stake your life on it. If you get a good one or if Kahr makes it good, I think they can be outstanding. If not, it could get you killed.
My PM9 was the most unreliable gun I've ever purchased. After 386 rounds and about 50 problems I sent it back to Kahr. I wasn't happy about them refusing to cover the shipping ($58.00) but I had no choice. I had it back 5 days later with a new barrel, extractor and rebound spring plus some polishing. That's some fast service but I have yet to fire it. That will happen later this week. I love the size and feel of the PM9 but it will take some doings to build my confidence in it. In the mean time it's my 66 for pd until I get my hands on a pre-lock 60. Hopefully I'm on to what sounds like a nice one and priced fair for the both of us. If you go with a PM9, shoot it a lot before you stake your life on it. If you get a good one or if Kahr makes it good, I think they can be outstanding. If not, it could get you killed.
buenhec
Member
That is why I got the MK9, same as the PM but in metal and reliable.
skers69
Member
I have been looking at Kahr myself. They look like a good pocket gun. That being said I kind of like my G26 better than both of your choices.
rbernie
Contributing Member
I have shot a CW9 and a PF9 and a P11. The CW9 was the nicest piece by far, and well worth the extra $$. The P11 had a decent feel but the trigger was bad without work. The PF9 was a literal pain to shoot due to its thin profile, but had a better trigger than the P11. The CW9 was as comfortable to shoot as the P11 with a better out-of-the-box trigger and far better fit-n-finish.
As an aside, I bought a clean used CW9 for the same cost as a new PF9 or P11. Dollar for dollar, it's not even a close debate.
As an aside, I bought a clean used CW9 for the same cost as a new PF9 or P11. Dollar for dollar, it's not even a close debate.
krs
Member
I had a PM9 and liked it fine but sold it because it was excess here and it's grip was too small around for me to hold in a repeatable way.
I've played around with all of the Keltecs and still have a P11, a 3Pat, and a P32. They keep working fine and are a great gun for the money. But they're triggers all bite my finger no matter what I try. The .380 is the worst - that little sucker is downright painful to shoot. I probably need finger surgery or something 'cause my trigger finger gets pinched between the guard and the trigger every time I fire Keltecs. Other than that they are surprisingly accurate and the P11 hasn't missed a beat in over four years - probably more than 500 rounds.
I've played around with all of the Keltecs and still have a P11, a 3Pat, and a P32. They keep working fine and are a great gun for the money. But they're triggers all bite my finger no matter what I try. The .380 is the worst - that little sucker is downright painful to shoot. I probably need finger surgery or something 'cause my trigger finger gets pinched between the guard and the trigger every time I fire Keltecs. Other than that they are surprisingly accurate and the P11 hasn't missed a beat in over four years - probably more than 500 rounds.
M2 Carbine
member
I've had the 9mm/40S&W Kel Tec since they first came out.
Although I don't carry it because I prefer 45ACP (Kimbers) I wouldn't hesitate to carry the P-11.
I've looked at buying a Kahr a number of times, just because, but IMO they are too expensive.
But then I've never seen a Kahr for $329 like the deal usp9 got.
Although I don't carry it because I prefer 45ACP (Kimbers) I wouldn't hesitate to carry the P-11.
I've looked at buying a Kahr a number of times, just because, but IMO they are too expensive.
But then I've never seen a Kahr for $329 like the deal usp9 got.
denfoote
Member
MK9 for me.
My PF9 is on the fritz again and I don't have the ready cash to send it in, so it sits!!
My PF9 is on the fritz again and I don't have the ready cash to send it in, so it sits!!
single stack
Member
Between the Kahrs and the KelTecs it appears that
the Kahrs are in the lead in this poll.
With a little deeper look it also appears that your
selection will be a good choice or a stinker with either.
Love 'em or hate 'em.
SS
the Kahrs are in the lead in this poll.
With a little deeper look it also appears that your
selection will be a good choice or a stinker with either.
Love 'em or hate 'em.
SS
Another vote for the PM9 here. I did have about 3 FTFs early on. No probs lately at 323rds, and its still tight. I had not shot it in about a month, so I ran a couple mags through it Friday afternoon. Im going to take a CCW class in Oct and plan to see how the PM9 will perform. I took a tactical class a couple weeks ago, but only used the XD and CZ. So I think it will benefit me to use the gun that I actually carry. I do carry the XD some.
Im getting ready to change the PM sights for Big Dots and pickup a couple extra mags for the class and an IWB holster.
Im getting ready to change the PM sights for Big Dots and pickup a couple extra mags for the class and an IWB holster.
Browns Fan
Member
On saturday, we had a BUG side match after our IDPA match. A friend let me borrow his PF9, I'll have to say, it's now on my short list. Shot very well, recoil was manageable.
MCgunner
Member
I've snot my P11 a couple of times at IDPA shoots and did rather well with it. It was a little slower to acquire sights on, they're so short in radius, but it's very accurate. I impressed a few shooters with it who would normally call such a gun (or any polymer non-1911) plastic junk. Don't like it, fine, but I'm well armed with mine.
My choice, my gun. If you think the Kahr is any better, you delude yourself.
krs
Member
The little polymer Kahr with non dovetailed sights, CW9 or CM9 or something like that is sold for under $400. It's the same gun as a PM9 but lacks features. My PM9 was the black slided night sighted version and Kahr charges pretty high prices for black and for NS.
So don't judge them by price until you're familiar with their pricing because it ranges pretty far between models and versions of models at MSRP, and the sellers don't get MSRP for them.
So don't judge them by price until you're familiar with their pricing because it ranges pretty far between models and versions of models at MSRP, and the sellers don't get MSRP for them.
45crittergitter
Member
Having had both, I like both, but would probably pick the Kahr if it fit the particular pockets I was gonna carry in.
dairycreek
Member
What is your purpose for choosing the gun? I have owned both and shot both and, for me, both were dead bang reliable. Accuracy for a small gun was acceptable for both. The Kahr did, in fact, cost about 4-5 times that of the Kel-Tec. If you want a gun for carrying. Both are good choices. If cost is an issue then the Kel-Tec wins hands down. Your choice
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,712
Having owned four Kel-Tecs (note the use of the past tense) and one PM9 (my every day carry for 9 months of the year for the last three years and thousands of rounds) it's a pretty simple choice for me.
Yes, my PM9 was within the suspect s/n range and suffered from the dreaded barrel peening. I talked it over with Dottie and sent back the slide, barrel, recoil spring via USPS Priority Mail for about $5 (since I did not send the frame, this is legal). Kahr sent back all new parts within a week and it's been great ever since.
Around here, K-T PF9 or P-11 is $275-300. My Kahr PM9 was less than $600. My PM9 is worth more than all four of the K-Ts that I sold, simply because it works...
Yes, my PM9 was within the suspect s/n range and suffered from the dreaded barrel peening. I talked it over with Dottie and sent back the slide, barrel, recoil spring via USPS Priority Mail for about $5 (since I did not send the frame, this is legal). Kahr sent back all new parts within a week and it's been great ever since.
Guess I don't shop where you do...or one of us is bad at math.
Around here, K-T PF9 or P-11 is $275-300. My Kahr PM9 was less than $600. My PM9 is worth more than all four of the K-Ts that I sold, simply because it works...
Last edited:
Realistic street prices for Kahr is only 2-3 times the KT, not 3-5 as stated. Still the Kahr is WAY more gun than the KT and would be my choice. Although I carry a P3AT and have a PF-9. I'm waiting for the Kahr P380, or may switch to a PM-9 later. The P3AT is just so easy to carry though! I also have the steel framed Kahr MK40 which is also a dream. Too heavy for pocket carry, but goes nice in a holster.
Both are good guns. I had the PM 9 and like others had to go to the MK series. They are good guns, but can be pricey unless you fall into the right deal. I also own the KelTec PF9. I carry it every day. It is light, and mine has about 400 error free rounds through it. WWB, Hydra's, Pow'r ball, it eats them all, and is surprisingly accurate. I shot my Keltec and my father-in-laws CW9 side by side, and I prefer the Keltec. It was more controllable, and more accurate- for me. You really need to set up a time to do the same thing yourself, shoot them side by side. Both companies have problems from time to time, so it's luck of the draw with the guns. I am one of the lucky ones that got a great Keltec. I would and have take(n) it anywhere. I highly recommend the Pow'r ball round when you do choose either one. GREAT round.
Charles S
Member
I have own both Keltec's and Kahrs both are good guns and have their place. If you are comparing the polymer framed version of both guns I do think the Kahrs are a little nicer and are worth the extra money.
When you step up to the steel framed Kahrs I think you are in a different realm. The steel framed Kahrs (for me) require a holster for carry because of their weight, not their size. They are very durable and very user friendly for a small gun. I have shot a couple of classes where I put about 1000 rounds through a K9 in a 2 day class. One just cannot do that (I cannot) in a small polymer framed gun. My hand was pretty sore with a steel framed gun.
I lean toward the polymer framed Kahr for pocket carry, although I probably carry my P32 more than any other gun when I am just running up to the grocery store.
When you step up to the steel framed Kahrs I think you are in a different realm. The steel framed Kahrs (for me) require a holster for carry because of their weight, not their size. They are very durable and very user friendly for a small gun. I have shot a couple of classes where I put about 1000 rounds through a K9 in a 2 day class. One just cannot do that (I cannot) in a small polymer framed gun. My hand was pretty sore with a steel framed gun.
I lean toward the polymer framed Kahr for pocket carry, although I probably carry my P32 more than any other gun when I am just running up to the grocery store.
rbernie
Contributing Member
And a CW9 is $400 NIB and $300 used.
Today I ran another box o' ammo thru my CW9. I bought it for the princely sum of $325, and it has been 100% since I picked it up.
The trigger on my CW9 is far better (smoother, lighter) than any fluffed-n-buffed PF9 or P11. That's not delusion; it's a fact. Does that make a KT a POS? Of course not. But I pick up a CW9 and a P11 and I see more than a $100 worth of better in the CW. YMMV.
I'd go Kel tec. I shot my brothers 9mm kahr and that thing was both inaccurate and failed to slide lock after the last shot twice in the same shooting session.
I think Kahr is a decent company but if you happen to get one of these lemons, Kahr is not known for their great customer service like Kel tec is.
I think Kahr is a decent company but if you happen to get one of these lemons, Kahr is not known for their great customer service like Kel tec is.
- Status
