Smart Carry and One In The Pipe Poll Thread

[AK103K]

I never understood carrying an unloaded gun either, but hey, what ever floats your boat I guess.

Its not an issue or worry for me.

 

[Phydeaux642]

I cannot answer the question because I would never have need for such a ridiculous holster.

Wow! Just wow.

I have a Smartcarry strapped on at this very moment. I am wearing it a bit differently, though. I happen to be riding my bicycle today and I have the holster part of the Smartcarry on my strong side with a 642 in it, fully loaded by the way.

I have worn it as designed with no problems whatsoever. And, If your "junk" is in the way, you're a better man than me.

 

[crew]

If you need to draw and fire so quickly that you must have "one in the pipe".......then maybe you should be using a carry method other than SmartCarry. ????just a thought

 

[AK103K]

The biggest problem I have with not having a round in the chamber is, what if you need the other hand at the moment you need to load the gun? I keep hearing that it only takes a split second (assuming your well practiced at it) to get the gun loaded, but thats using "two" hands. What happens if you need that other hand to deal with the threat?

I use my Smart Carry as a back up, so its not as critical an issue if it were my only gun. I also have a "loaded" full sized handgun in a IWB holster on my belt. Even so, I can still access my Seecamp with no troubles using one hand, and its not all that slow to draw that way either.

 

[PandaBearBG]

For me, full magazine empty chamber. I know alot of people say you may need it for a quick shot, but I do not live in a war zone, or high risk area. Besides I used to have a rowdy temper back in the days of my youth and even though I am done with those days, I would rather not do anything rash that could lead to regret. In the civilian world, proper threat identification and 100% absolute conviction that you are going to take a man's life will take at the very minimum the same amount of time to chamber and fire. To identify, assess and make that decision is pretty paramount and for me at least not to be taken to lightly. I've done my duty overseas and even then it was difficult with all the media and constantly changing rules of engagement.

Now for home defense then no hesitation there, someone rattling the doorknob, lock and load. Walking up the driveway, lock and load. That's a different situation. But for me, verbal judo first, then warning, another warning, then draw/rack if the situation requires it. Even if it is a thug with a knife in the middle of the nite, I will give him multiple chances to back down and he will know it and he will know he will run out of options.

Maybe I would keep one loaded if I was running in the park in the middle of the night, but I don't run and the park has lights and always filled with people.

All this pertains to my lifestyle, my enviroment, and my personal choices.

 

[easyg]

Sure.

But I carry a revolver.

 

[eJack]

Sure.

But I carry a revolver.

I'll never understand why a revolver is good to go, but yet people think a semi auto needs manual safeties and or no round chambered to be safe.

 

[AK103K]

Lack of proficiency and training.

 

[eJack]

Lack of proficiency and training.

Which is odd IMO. Seems like the anti gun movement has pushed gun owners to historically unprecedented levels of civilian firearms training.

Also from your previous post, you can rack a slide one handed, but then again who wants to deal with that when you are seconds from death?

 

[AK103K]

Well, maybe sort of. There are also a lot of people who just ran out and bought a gun and got a permit or not, and really have no idea whats going on.

Then you also have the "one platform" people, who only have experience with one type and all others are scary.

 

[eJack]

Well, maybe sort of. There are also a lot of people who just ran out and bought a gun and got a permit or not, and really have no idea whats going on.

Then you also have the "one platform" people, who only have experience with one type and all others are scary.

True, but I would say that for the most part, fear buyers go out buy a gun, maybe shoot it a few times at a range, and then put it in their night stand or kitchen drawer. People who carry outside of an occupational necessity however tend to be the same people who get as much training as they can get their hands on. That is why I have always been opposed to ccw license requirements. The inclination to carry a gun is either criminal (in which case the law is irrelevant), or defensive (and face it, I have never heard of anybody that carries a gun by choice on a consistent basis just because they are concerned for their safety - they enjoy shooting and figure they might as well have their gun should they ever need it).

 

[AK103K]

I would think if they were the latter, then carrying the gun loaded would not be an issue. The gun and its mode of carry would be familiar and thought out.

Then again, I suppose not everyone is always thinking.

Hey, if you want to carry your gun empty, its your choice, whos to say your wrong. Me, if theres going to be an "Oh Scheiße" moment, I'd prefer to keep it simple, and keep it down to one per instance.

 

[Evela]

I do not, will not carry chambered for these reasons:

1. The Israeil draw/method is just as fast, with the rack occuring during the forward movement of the gun. Even new practitioners can draw-rack-fire, 3 shots, in about 1.5 seconds.

2. Because I am not a LE or SWAT professional I am not trained in hand-to-hand combat. If the BG is close enough to me to prevent me from using both hands, then I would not be inclined to draw (and then be obligated fight to retain my gun and prevent it from being used against me). I would be inclined to use all other means to escape or get clear, so that I could draw.

3. I find the Glock to be the perfect weapon for this proven method, reliable and ready to fire upon chambering. No safeties to fumble with.

4. I wish to avoid or greatly reduce the very real - much more likely - risk of an AD/ND that might well hurt or kill a loved one, or myself. I find that I can draw with much greater confidence knowing that my Glock cannot fire until I really want to.

It should be recognized that the Israeli method continues to be used, and is making a resurgence in the United States and among law professionals.

 

[eJack]

Not saying you're wrong for the reasons you gave, but...

I do not, will not carry chambered for these reasons:

1. The Israeil draw/method is just as fast, with the rack occuring during the forward movement of the gun. Even new practitioners can draw-rack-fire, 3 shots, in about 1.5 seconds.

While slower, yes Israeli carry is almost as fast when you have both hands free. That is an unfortunate if in a lot of cases.

2. Because I am not a LE or SWAT professional I am not trained in hand-to-hand combat. If the BG is close enough to me to prevent me from using both hands, then I would not be inclined to draw (and then be obligated fight to retain my gun and prevent it from being used against me). I would be inclined to use all other means to escape or get clear, so that I could draw.

I was unaware that LE or SWAT credentials were needed to be trained in hand to hand techniques. I guess I cheated. Seriously though, if you like to shoot, I'd bet you would love learning hand to hand to handgun transition and retention techniques. If you carry for self defense you might as well.

3. I find the Glock to be the perfect weapon for this proven method, reliable and ready to fire upon chambering. No safeties to fumble with.

As do many. A chambered glock is no different than a revolver in terms of how you shoot it. I've never seen a revolver with a safety and not chambering a glock is like leaving a cylinder empty so that the first trigger pull does nothing. (although even then you would do it one handed)

4. I wish to avoid or greatly reduce the very real - much more likely - risk of an AD/ND that might well hurt or kill a loved one, or myself. I find that I can draw with much greater confidence knowing that my Glock cannot fire until I really want to.

When drawing there is only one thing that can make a gun discharge, and that is a finger pulling the trigger. If that is an issue, then like #2, you have a great opportunity to have fun training. Chambered or not, want to or not, trigger pulls are the only way a glock is going to fire.

It should be recognized that the Israeli method continues to be used, and is making a resurgence in the United States and among law professionals.

I am unaware of any US law agency encouraging Israeli carry. If you know of any specific examples, I wouldn't mind hearing one. US use of Israeli carry seems to be more popular among open carry advocates in states that mandate it for open carry (such as Utah).

 

[Hokkmike]

I don't want to sound ignorant, but I guess I am; what is "smart carry" please?

 

[AK103K]

http://www.smartcarry.com/

 

[eJack]

I don't want to sound ignorant, but I guess I am; what is "smart carry" please?

When you are lost on what a term means, you will often find an answer quicker by typing it in the search engine of your choice, and paying close attention to the first couple results. Doesn't always work, but in this case it does.

 

[Boba Fett]

Evela.

Stop posting this Israelite Method, Israeli Draw, Israeli Rack CRAP as a way to carry unchambered! You've already had three threads closed where you started this crap, a number of your posts deleted and you persist in providing disinformation about a technique that is dangerous.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=471707
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=401589
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=90753

Massad Ayoob has even voiced his opinion against your nutty idea. He has affirmed that the Israeli Method is not a method for carrying unchambered.

You've had admins tell you to go somewhere else to post your crap yet you persist in posting it here where it is unwanted, unwelcome, and unaccepted.

If you insist on posting it, then I will continue to post the evidence of your BS and that you are nothing but a MALL NINJA.

Beware the Mall Ninja Evela: Closer of Threads. Your thread could be next!

 

[Phydeaux642]

Beware the Mall Ninja

"I am a Sergeant of a three-man Rapid Tactical Force at one of America’s largest indoor retail shopping areas."

 

[kanook]

I have lived, shot, and served in Israel for many years, and I am very familiar with the “Israeli Carry”. It is certainly not the fastest way to get into action, but it is the safest for barely-trained civilian carry in the usual crowded Israeli civilian environments (schools, busses, streets, malls, etc). A dropped gun will not fire, and a lost or misplaced gun found in cond 3 is safer than in cond 1. It had its roots in the early days of Israel with the many polyglot arms available–all with their own particular safety systems and Manual of Arms. Visualize an odd hodge-podge of worn-out BHPs, 1911s, Lugers, P-38s, PPKs, Steyrs, Webley autos, Rubys, etc, and you get the idea. The only fast and safe way of training and carry for those non-gun folks was cond 3 and rack on the draw. This out-moded cond 3 carry has carried over till this day–even tho there are much better and faster methods now available–I certainly do not use it and rely on cond 1 in all of my EDC guns–dmd

got this from someone who knows.

 

[easyg]

Quote:
Originally Posted by easyg
Sure.

But I carry a revolver.

I'll never understand why a revolver is good to go, but yet people think a semi auto needs manual safeties and or no round chambered to be safe.

You really don't understand????

How about this...

My revolver has a 13 lbs. trigger, and an approx. 1" travel.

My Glock has a 5.5 lbs. trigger, and approx. .5" travel.

Which do you think is more forgiving of human error?

 

[eJack]

You really don't understand????

How about this...

My revolver has a 13 lbs. trigger, and an approx. 1" travel.

My Glock has a 5.5 lbs. trigger, and approx. .5" travel.

Which do you think is more forgiving of human error?

Yes, YOUR revolver has a 12lb trigger and YOUR Glock has a 5.5lb trigger. I've seen a lot of revolvers in the 5-6lb range and Glocks are available with 12lb triggers. Not that it matters since none of those will be forgiving of a goof with their finger where it doesn't belong.

 

[Chris Plitt]

I've seen those before, another company came out with them first... Thunderwear I think it was called. I remember a training class I did... one of the instructors was italian... and... he didn't have much space for it... another was irish... he said it was quite comfortable... I'll leave that up to you to interpret.

 

[Chris Plitt]

I'm sorry, but this Israeli carry stuff is total BS. In a firefight .3 seconds is a LIFETIME. I am 100% confident that I can draw my Sig with no safeties and a round in the chamber and engage my target .25 seconds quicker than anyone doing an extended .3 israeli draw could. If you are in a close up situation, lets reach out and hand the person the gun, because, I've tried this several times... this draw takes a little bit of room. I can understand the safety aspect, but if you have a quality holster then there should be no worry about things getting snagged on triggers, and whatever scenario you can come up with. Less is more... Simple is Good... and an Israeli draw complicates things, and forget it if you have wet hands on a Glock and are in a hurry. I've tried this and my hand had completely slipped off the slide before a round can be chambered. I think I'll take my chances with a quality firearm and see how I do...

 

[metallic]

I carry a cocked and locked 1911 outside of work, then during work I carry a da/sa pistol with the safety off and the hammer at half cock in a pocket holster. If I don't trust the pistol to be safe, I simply don't carry it.