So, no difference between the Democrats and Republicans?
- Thread starter Monkeyleg
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Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
And in the process put the Dems into power. Thanks again for AWBII. And III.
Thin Black Line
Member
+1. And both parties are hard at work removing my other rights, most notably
the 4thA. Though it would seem the R's have been taking the lead more
recently on that one.
MrDig
Member
Speaking as an individual who is tired of Rep. v Dem. bickering and wrangling for Power, I see it as a logical and Patiotic Duty to throw the bums out. All of them. Start fresh. This is of course shouted down, all Candidates who are not republican or Democrat get no press, no respect and are dismissed as "Crackpots" by the media and the voters. There were Viable Political Candidtates who were neither and got nowhere, much to my dismay.People complain that they are of the same stripe and yet you continue to vote the idiots into office.
STOP!!! Insanity is defined by doing the same thing over and over yet expecting different results.
STOP!!! Insanity is defined by doing the same thing over and over yet expecting different results.
Titan6
member
TBL has it right
I have only been on this forum a very short time but only a fool would not notice that this is about way more than the 2A. This is about a long term trend of big government growing out of control and taking rights away from people in the process. It began with Wilson, picked up speed with FDR, really started going down hill with Reagen and now with the way things currently are; is going over the cliff.
1-Compare the percentage of GDP of the Government in the economy to say 1945, when the economy was on a war time footing with huge amounts of production going to the war and we had 10,000,000 men under arms to today and you will likely be shocked. We are much higher today at almost 24%.
2- Look at the National Debt, really expanded with Regan, grew enourmously due to repubs recently, with no end in sight, unless you count the election year number "projections".
3- The freedom grabbing Patriot Act- repubs
I won't even go in to all the other calls for bans on liberty and freedom coming from the far religous right from burning books, CDs and general craziness but it is there. Where does it stop? For me right here right now with my vote and support going elsewhere. Do what you like but don't expect people who love freedom to jump aboard the "compromise it all away slowly instead of all at once train".
I have only been on this forum a very short time but only a fool would not notice that this is about way more than the 2A. This is about a long term trend of big government growing out of control and taking rights away from people in the process. It began with Wilson, picked up speed with FDR, really started going down hill with Reagen and now with the way things currently are; is going over the cliff.
1-Compare the percentage of GDP of the Government in the economy to say 1945, when the economy was on a war time footing with huge amounts of production going to the war and we had 10,000,000 men under arms to today and you will likely be shocked. We are much higher today at almost 24%.
2- Look at the National Debt, really expanded with Regan, grew enourmously due to repubs recently, with no end in sight, unless you count the election year number "projections".
3- The freedom grabbing Patriot Act- repubs
I won't even go in to all the other calls for bans on liberty and freedom coming from the far religous right from burning books, CDs and general craziness but it is there. Where does it stop? For me right here right now with my vote and support going elsewhere. Do what you like but don't expect people who love freedom to jump aboard the "compromise it all away slowly instead of all at once train".
Steve 48
Member
That's what the people get for voting the Democrats in. Like a skunk, they can't change their stripes either. Steve48
Lonestar49
Member
...
I think every middle-class-citizen and anyone that does not think either party has our/their "interest" at heart, should see the Movie: ~ Man of the Year ~ starring Robin Williams. It's in the video stores now.
Then start looking for the real "peoples-candidate" and with our power in numbers, elect "a President" that will lead, not follow.
A must see movie IMO.
Actually, Hollywood got this one right for once. It would make a great must-see in Political Science classrooms to rid the many family cows that vote straight tickets, along with Parents-party, kids-party, traditions.
Enjoy,
LS
I think every middle-class-citizen and anyone that does not think either party has our/their "interest" at heart, should see the Movie: ~ Man of the Year ~ starring Robin Williams. It's in the video stores now.
Then start looking for the real "peoples-candidate" and with our power in numbers, elect "a President" that will lead, not follow.
A must see movie IMO.
Actually, Hollywood got this one right for once. It would make a great must-see in Political Science classrooms to rid the many family cows that vote straight tickets, along with Parents-party, kids-party, traditions.
Enjoy,
LS
Last edited:
Augustwest
Member
I find it laughable that there are so many people here who blame power shifts on the folks who vote their consciences, and not the candidates, National Committees and Administrations who have sold us out, time and time again.
People blame Perot and his supporters for 8 years of Bill Clinton. There was a reason that Perot had the support he did, and it had very little to do with him. A message was sent. The fact that we continue to have this discussion shows me that it wasn't received.
People blame Perot and his supporters for 8 years of Bill Clinton. There was a reason that Perot had the support he did, and it had very little to do with him. A message was sent. The fact that we continue to have this discussion shows me that it wasn't received.
saltydog
Member
This is a very good thread!
A few other movies to raise your political consciousness:
Dave, with Kevin Kline and Sigourney Weaver
The Distinguished Gentleman, with Eddie Murphy
Last, but not least...
Bulworth, with Warren Beatty, and Halle Berry. My personal favorite of the three... just 'cause Halle Berry makes me salivate...
Dave, with Kevin Kline and Sigourney Weaver
The Distinguished Gentleman, with Eddie Murphy
Last, but not least...
Bulworth, with Warren Beatty, and Halle Berry. My personal favorite of the three... just 'cause Halle Berry makes me salivate...
Dravur
Member
Dose of reality.
Welcome to reality 101.....
This is a two party country...... Simple as that. The Libertarian, Green, Spaceman Spiff party has absolutely no chance of winning in a national election. Therefore, you should work with these on the local level, where a small, dedicated group can make a difference.
As to the Rep vs Dem debate.... For the most part, the Republicans are conservative and the Dems are liberal. There are varying degrees within each party. There are some Republicans who are wishy washy on some topics and some demos that are not spaced out leftists. Now, here is where it gets tricky......
You have to pick your coalition.... Which one represents you the best? If you are a proponent for Labor Unions and larger government, then you are prolly a Democrat. If you are for a smaller government and capitalism and the generation of wealth, then you are more likely a Republican.
Do either of the parties work perfectly? nope. I see the republicans spending like drunken sailors, but I also realize the other option is worse. When Bush got through the medicaire prescription plan, the gripe from Teddie K was that it didnt spend enough.
I dont agree with Bush on everything. He did, however, try and privatise SS and did cut taxes, both admirable tasks. But, even though we don't see eye-to-eye on everything, I still voted for him, as the alternative was far worse.
Oh, and here is a hint..... You will NEVER find a poli that you will agree 100% with.
Are there mistakes and deceptions from both parties, yep. Get used to it. That is politics. Work within your primaries to get the candidates you want. Make your voice heard. But, it always better to have your coalition in power rather than the alternative.
When people bring up the relatively small number of Republicans who support gun control, they conveniently neglect to mention the almost slavish support on the demo side, where even "Pro-gun" demos are kept in line by the anti leadership.
So... color me a conservative republican and working within my coalition to get local, national and state leaders who reflect my beliefs and ideals.
Welcome to reality 101.....
This is a two party country...... Simple as that. The Libertarian, Green, Spaceman Spiff party has absolutely no chance of winning in a national election. Therefore, you should work with these on the local level, where a small, dedicated group can make a difference.
As to the Rep vs Dem debate.... For the most part, the Republicans are conservative and the Dems are liberal. There are varying degrees within each party. There are some Republicans who are wishy washy on some topics and some demos that are not spaced out leftists. Now, here is where it gets tricky......
You have to pick your coalition.... Which one represents you the best? If you are a proponent for Labor Unions and larger government, then you are prolly a Democrat. If you are for a smaller government and capitalism and the generation of wealth, then you are more likely a Republican.
Do either of the parties work perfectly? nope. I see the republicans spending like drunken sailors, but I also realize the other option is worse. When Bush got through the medicaire prescription plan, the gripe from Teddie K was that it didnt spend enough.
I dont agree with Bush on everything. He did, however, try and privatise SS and did cut taxes, both admirable tasks. But, even though we don't see eye-to-eye on everything, I still voted for him, as the alternative was far worse.
Oh, and here is a hint..... You will NEVER find a poli that you will agree 100% with.
Are there mistakes and deceptions from both parties, yep. Get used to it. That is politics. Work within your primaries to get the candidates you want. Make your voice heard. But, it always better to have your coalition in power rather than the alternative.
When people bring up the relatively small number of Republicans who support gun control, they conveniently neglect to mention the almost slavish support on the demo side, where even "Pro-gun" demos are kept in line by the anti leadership.
So... color me a conservative republican and working within my coalition to get local, national and state leaders who reflect my beliefs and ideals.
Titan6
member
Dose of Reality
Welcome to Reality 102
These Colonies belong to the British, they have for almost 300 years so get used to it. You will pay your taxes and put that tea back on the boat or else.
Welcome to Reality 107
Slavery has always exisited in this country and therefore will always be, so go back in the field and pick that cotton and get used to it. Democrats will always be Democrats and republicans will always be republicans, nothing will ever change.
Welcome to Reality 110
No way no how are wimmin gettin the right to vote, I don't care what you say it ain't happening
Welcome to Reality 201
Joe Liberman will not get elected, no way no how, is some third party politician gonna get elected....
Life is all about change. It is how we make happen, react to and deal with those changes that defines who we are. If you want to go with the herd go for it. But I have a little thing called morals won't let me do that.
Welcome to Reality 102
These Colonies belong to the British, they have for almost 300 years so get used to it. You will pay your taxes and put that tea back on the boat or else.
Welcome to Reality 107
Slavery has always exisited in this country and therefore will always be, so go back in the field and pick that cotton and get used to it. Democrats will always be Democrats and republicans will always be republicans, nothing will ever change.
Welcome to Reality 110
No way no how are wimmin gettin the right to vote, I don't care what you say it ain't happening
Welcome to Reality 201
Joe Liberman will not get elected, no way no how, is some third party politician gonna get elected....
Life is all about change. It is how we make happen, react to and deal with those changes that defines who we are. If you want to go with the herd go for it. But I have a little thing called morals won't let me do that.
xd9fan
Member
I saw the movie and I'm not sure a agree with you.
The movie proved that all national politics is....IS the cult of personality....look at Obama and that cult
(I must say I like how Obama anwsers back to some stuff. I like his anwser to the Aussie president........but hell would freeze over before I EVER voted Dem....I just like a guy with attitude throwing crap right back at them....wish more would do that)
QuestionEverything
Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2006
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Remember that Gingrich had the chance to kill the original AWB in conference committee. He didn't bother. He, Allard and the other Repubs present were more interested in arguing over the crime control bill's funding increases for police departments than the RKBA.
And AWBII has zero cosponsors and has never been brought up as a Dem legislative priority. This thing is no different from the draft bill Charles Rangel floats every year. Odds of its quiet death in committee are 50 to 1. It's probably a good thing that McCarthy keeps proposing this, because I suspect the other reps are getting tired of her crowing about assault weapon bans every year.
And AWBII has zero cosponsors and has never been brought up as a Dem legislative priority. This thing is no different from the draft bill Charles Rangel floats every year. Odds of its quiet death in committee are 50 to 1. It's probably a good thing that McCarthy keeps proposing this, because I suspect the other reps are getting tired of her crowing about assault weapon bans every year.
griz
Member
If it were true that the republicans are for smaller government I suspect I would still be voting for them. Tax cuts are not meaningful if the gov spends the money anyway.
You're welcome, and thanks for the bigger government you voted for.
odysseus
Member
gunsmith said:
LOL... well I did say a "little" difference. Thanks for posting that - makes for a good laugh.
If you think there is a difference, watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JYUObmLR2c
P5 Guy
Member
The ruling class rule at the point of a gun. The unwashed masses being armed in kind is a threat to the ruling class and they cannot abide that.
Always the ruling class says the enforcers are out gunned by the criminals and that is why the lawabiding must disarm.
Always the ruling class says the enforcers are out gunned by the criminals and that is why the lawabiding must disarm.
Monkeyleg
Member.
I'm really sorry that I even started this thread.
Why? Because it's so easy for someone to point to a Zell Miller or a Mitt Romney and say that they (or others) disprove what I've said.
But I didn't say that there are anti-2A Republicans, or pro-2A Democrats.
What I was trying to point out is that it's the leadership---Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy, Hillary, Schumer, Feinstein, etc--who set the agenda. Not the individual legislator.
The individual legislator can buck leadership, but will be punished. He/she will not advance, not get a chair on a committee, and not have any of his/her bills be given a floor vote. This is the way both parties work: toe the line, or you're a second-stringer with no clout.
If that particular legislator becomes more vocal in his opposition to the leadership's position, then he/she will be punished even worse. Come re-election time, there just may not be enough money from the DNC or the RNC to help that legislator. But maybe those committees somehow magically found enough money to fund primary challengers for the legislators who crossed leadership.
If you accept the above premise, which I have found to be true on both the state and federal levels, then please consider the following.
Each party holds hostage groups with strongly held views on particular issues. The Democrats lay claim to the Black vote, the pro-abortion vote, and a whole host of other issues. They also by default own the anti-gun crowd like the Brady Bunch.
The Republicans hold the anti-abortion movement, the conservative Christians, and other groups. Including the NRA.
Yes, the NRA supports certain Democrats. But you won't find those Democrats in positions of power in the current Congress.
The Brady Bunch probably supported certain Republicans. But those Republicans are not going to be the co-chairs of committees like the House Judiciary.
Each party is beholden to its base, and my guess is that the anti-gunners have kept quiet while helping Pelosi and Co., and are now demanding their payback.
How else to explain a flurry of anti-gun bills in just a matter of weeks?
Please don't tell me that GW promised to sign a renewal of the AW ban. It was a wink and a nod, and the understanding was that the AW ban renewal would never hit his desk.
Give the guy credit for something.
It doesn't matter how pro-2A a particular Democrat may be. All that matters is that, when Pelosi, Schumer, Kennedy, Reid or others in leadership say "jump," that particular Democrat asks "how high?"
Why? Because it's so easy for someone to point to a Zell Miller or a Mitt Romney and say that they (or others) disprove what I've said.
But I didn't say that there are anti-2A Republicans, or pro-2A Democrats.
What I was trying to point out is that it's the leadership---Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy, Hillary, Schumer, Feinstein, etc--who set the agenda. Not the individual legislator.
The individual legislator can buck leadership, but will be punished. He/she will not advance, not get a chair on a committee, and not have any of his/her bills be given a floor vote. This is the way both parties work: toe the line, or you're a second-stringer with no clout.
If that particular legislator becomes more vocal in his opposition to the leadership's position, then he/she will be punished even worse. Come re-election time, there just may not be enough money from the DNC or the RNC to help that legislator. But maybe those committees somehow magically found enough money to fund primary challengers for the legislators who crossed leadership.
If you accept the above premise, which I have found to be true on both the state and federal levels, then please consider the following.
Each party holds hostage groups with strongly held views on particular issues. The Democrats lay claim to the Black vote, the pro-abortion vote, and a whole host of other issues. They also by default own the anti-gun crowd like the Brady Bunch.
The Republicans hold the anti-abortion movement, the conservative Christians, and other groups. Including the NRA.
Yes, the NRA supports certain Democrats. But you won't find those Democrats in positions of power in the current Congress.
The Brady Bunch probably supported certain Republicans. But those Republicans are not going to be the co-chairs of committees like the House Judiciary.
Each party is beholden to its base, and my guess is that the anti-gunners have kept quiet while helping Pelosi and Co., and are now demanding their payback.
How else to explain a flurry of anti-gun bills in just a matter of weeks?
Please don't tell me that GW promised to sign a renewal of the AW ban. It was a wink and a nod, and the understanding was that the AW ban renewal would never hit his desk.
Give the guy credit for something.
It doesn't matter how pro-2A a particular Democrat may be. All that matters is that, when Pelosi, Schumer, Kennedy, Reid or others in leadership say "jump," that particular Democrat asks "how high?"
telomerase
Member
But you have the satisfaction of knowing that Ohio became the third-highest-tax state under a "free-enterprise Republican" instead of a "socialist Democrat"
No, voting Democrat won't solve anything either. Not very many people here claim that it would. The point is that blindly sending money to high-level Republican politicians is not supporting the Second Amendment (or any Amendment). Put your efforts where they might do some good: local or state guys that you KNOW are pro-gun, GOA, NRA, etc.
Or just take someone shooting. Probably the most efficient long-term solution.
Autolycus
Member
Here in IL our Republican governor, Ryan, did not sign the CCW bill that was presented to him. His opponent would have and IL would be a shall issue CCW state.
Bloomberg, Guiliani, and George W. Bush (said he would sign the AWB back into law if presented) are not necessarily our friends.
Or our VP shooting a man in the face... that does not help our cause.
Bloomberg, Guiliani, and George W. Bush (said he would sign the AWB back into law if presented) are not necessarily our friends.
Or our VP shooting a man in the face... that does not help our cause.
Regardless of R or D, they both are for large, powerful, greedy governments. Generally speaking, R tends to be more pro-gun (with aforementioned exceptions listed above). Nonetheless, Libertarians trump them both, IMO. Smaller government. Lower taxes. More freedoms. Less government intervention into our lives.
Monkeyleg
Member.
Now I'm doubly sorry about starting this thread.
During the 1990's, we were under constant attack.
For the last six years we've enjoyed a relative peace.
In the last six weeks, we've been bombarded with anti-gun bills that may well have a chance of passing.
Naw, no coincidence here. Nothing to look at. Move on.
During the 1990's, we were under constant attack.
For the last six years we've enjoyed a relative peace.
In the last six weeks, we've been bombarded with anti-gun bills that may well have a chance of passing.
Naw, no coincidence here. Nothing to look at. Move on.
Autolycus
Member
I myself will be voting for the Pro-gun party...
the Libertarians.
the Libertarians.
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