So what rifles are being used in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[Joseph85]

I serve active duty in the USAF as an aircraft maintainer. I've only seen the M16A2 and M4 in use.

I've been researching online and I've run across pictures of a great number of rifles that are in use in Iraq and Afghanistan. These include:

M16A2, M16A4, and the M4.

A 5.56mm Designated Marksman Rifle and 77 gr. ammunition to go with it.

A 7.62mm M14. There seem to be a lot of variations of this rifle in use with either a walnut stock, synthetic stock, or Frankenstein looking adjustable stock. From what I can tell it's being used as a designated marksman rifle. There seem to be just as many different scope mounts as there are stocks for it.

A 7.62mm M110 SASS. This rifle looks like a beefed up M16 that fires the 7.62mm NATO. From what I've read it's designed to be a Semiautomatic Sniper Rifle, hence the acronym SASS, and will replace the M14 and all of it's variations that are in use.

7.62mm Bolt Action Rifles such as the Army's M24.

What rifles have you seen in use in Iraq and Afghanistan?

 

[dmftoy1]

Welcome to the board!

(and thanks for your service)

I can't answer your question but I'm sure there are a few guys on here who will. (My dad was USAF for 22 years so I've seen my share of airbases. )

Have a good one,
Dave

 

[TheDisturbed1]

As far as I know...

I'm dumbfounded on the M110 "SASS" but, I'm aware of the SR-25 and M-25 / M-21.

I believe the M40A1 is still in use by the USMC.

M14, A choice of few... I too have seen these in photos and a correspondant for Military.Com in Iraq wrote an article about his experiences with it over there.

You've forgotten the M82A1A

I've seen these in the early stages of the Iraq Invasion... I also saw a photo of a headshot.... I'd hate to be the cleaning crew for that.

I'm sure the list goes on, and even deeper in specifics. But that's my 2 cents..

 

[H2O MAN]

Joseph85

A 7.62mm M14.

A 7.62mm M110.

Yeah, from what I can dig up on these two, the M110 and it's variants have been problematic
and the modernized M14s are running without issue in the SASS, DMR and the new Counter IED role.

 

[El Tejon]

Welcome to THR.

the M110 and it's variants have been problematic

Did we not have a recent thread here on THR from an Army veteran who had used the M110 extensively in Iraq? IIRC, he had no issues and enjoyed the weapon.

 

[H2O MAN]

It's common knowledge that the .308 / 7.62mm AR system has never been a reliable package, not even the KAC offerings, it has
always been a hit and miss and the ability to keep ticking after it is dirty are a lot less desirable then the smaller 5.56 brother.

 

[BrianB]

I'm told that AK's are regularly used "unofficially" as well.

 

[trbon8r]

I bet there are probably a few HK416s and SCARs kicking around over there among the special forces types as well.

 

[Vaarok]

AK-47, AK-74, SKS-45, Long Lee, SMLE No. 1 Mk. III*, Enfield No. 4, Mosin (all varieties), Martini-Henry, Martini-Enfield, Peabody-Martini, Lebel, Berthier, MAS (all varieties) Turkish/German/Chinese/Czech/Iranian/Greek/Serbian/Bulgarian Mausers, FN-49, FN-FAL, Gew88, and probably some VZ-52s.

 

[Auburn1992]

MP-5s are if you count that as a rifle. As well as the M24

 

[Joseph85]

I meant in use by US servicemen and servicewomen.

What makes the M110 less reliable than the M16 or M4?

 

[kcmarine]

The only thing I can think of off of the top of my head that would make the M110 less reliable than the M16 and M4 series of weapons is that the demonstration video I watched showed the M110 fitted with a suppressor. I'm no expert on the subject, but it has been mentioned on this board before that direct impingement gas systems have been known to have issues when the rifle they operate is fitted with a suppressor. Another thing might be that they lack a forward assist (correct me if I'm wrong about this). The ammunition that the military issues might also be a bit outside of what the rifle likes.

Then again, it is a new weapon, and while the DoD probably thought it passed with flying colors during testing, all of that data goes out the window when the weapon is put into the combat environment. Another thing is that the rifles it replaces (M-21/M-25 and M24) were all a bit less maintenance- intensive than the M16 is, so maybe it's a learning curve. My guess is that the flaws will be worked out as the weapon is revised and improved, just like with the M16. Fortunately, it's not the standard- issue rifle that has problems this time, and fewer soldiers will be impacted by the reported problems of the weapon.

These are all just guesses aimed at explaining the idea that the weapon has problems, which another poster brought up. I have no experience with the rifle, so it could work fine. Again, all guesses aimed at explaining something another poster said.

 

[C-D-P]

As far as I know...

I'm dumbfounded on the M110 "SASS" but, I'm aware of the SR-25 and M-25 / M-21.

I believe the M40A1 is still in use by the USMC.

M14, A choice of few... I too have seen these in photos and a correspondant for Military.Com in Iraq wrote an article about his experiences with it over there.

You've forgotten the M82A1A

I've seen these in the early stages of the Iraq Invasion... I also saw a photo of a headshot.... I'd hate to be the cleaning crew for that.

I'm sure the list goes on, and even deeper in specifics. But that's my 2 cents..

A majority of the STA guys have swapped over to the M40A3, but every now and again you will run into an A1.

There may be a few SOF guys over there with SCARs as part of the trials, but the platform is suffering major problems right now. USASOC and AFSOC tested em and loved em. MARSOC tested em and took major issue, then NAVSPECWARCOM tested em and had a lot of the same problems.

The deal with the M110 was bad guys were targeting our STA guys when they were attached to patrols and what not, so they come up with this POS to make everyone look alike.

 

[Joseph85]

Has the Army and Marine Corps thrown the 5.56mm Designated Marksman Rifle idea out the window? Looks as if the focus is on a 7.62mm DMR either a modernized M14 or the M110.

 

[C-D-P]

No they have not thrown it out the window.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I'm told that AK's are regularly used "unofficially" as well.

From whom?

 

[C-D-P]

Some FID guys will, but normally only while training guys.

But there is nothing unofficial about it.

 

[Zoogster]

The deal with the M110 was bad guys were targeting our STA guys when they were attached to patrols and what not, so they come up with this POS to make everyone look alike.

A problem not normaly considered when discussing the merits of various weapon platforms.

Look like you're special and you get treated like you're special.

The modernized M14 weapon platform is still superior. However if using an overgrown less reliable M16 variant keeps you from always being targeted so you can actualy return accurate fire when someone else is targeted then the decision makes sense.

 

[C-D-P]

A problem not normaly considered when discussing the merits of various weapon platforms.

Look like you're special and you get treated like you're special.

The modernized M14 weapon platform is still superior. However if using an overgrown less reliable M16 variant keeps you from always being targeted so you can actualy return accurate fire when someone else is targeted then the decision makes sense.

Yup, you never want to be the guy carrying the radio or the guy standing next to him.

Whatever works.

 

[Joseph85]

What's the deal with the 5.56mm Designated Marksman Rifle?

We have the M4 and M16A4 filling the role of combat weapons and the M110 and modernized M14 filling the role of designated marksman rifles.

Why have a 5.56mm DMR when you can use the M110, modernized M14, or even the M16A4 with a scope?

 

[icebones]

why use a m249 when you have a m-60 or m240?

im military personel, and i still dont understand the brass's logic...

id' LOVE to have an accurized m-14 over a m-16/m4. but i can make due.

somehow, the higher ups seem to think that the m14 cant compete with m16/m4 rifles then again a shotgun beats the hell out of a m4 in close quarters anyway... sigh...

a m14 isnt as good as the m4 in cqb, but im a non-combatant anyway. still, im required to have a weapon/s with me at all times if i ever get deployed over-seas.

i would prefer a m-14 over a m-40/m-24 especially in urban combat anyway. if the SHTF, an m14 can hold its own, a bolt action cant compete with an AK, as far as firepower goes.

also, i grow tired of hearing about unreliable m16/m4's. as long as you clean the thing once-every-blue-moon. they shoot. and they shoot rings around AK's 'nuff said. the m16 was designed with a dust cover, its meant to be used, not forgotten about.:banghead:

 

[C-D-P]

"What's the deal with the 5.56mm Designated Marksman Rifle?

We have the M4 and M16A4 filling the role of combat weapons and the M110 and modernized M14 filling the role of designated marksman rifles.

Why have a 5.56mm DMR when you can use the M110, modernized M14, or even the M16A4 with a scope?"


SAM-R 5.56. Employed at the squad level. Kind of helps out that your DM can get rounds from anyone in the squad if he runs out in a firefight.


"why use a m249 when you have a m-60 or m240?

im military personel, and i still dont understand the brass's logic..."

SAW is smaller, lighter, and easier for the SQUAD LEVEL. The Golf attached in direct or indirect support.

SAW high volume of fire, portable, able to be employed by a single person, and if need be can get rounds from anyone in the squad (yeah I know. The SAW does not like to fire mags).

240, heavier, still a large volume of fire, employed by three people, not as maneuverable.

 

[Onmilo]

The only 5.56 Designated Marksman Rifle I know of that is called as such is the Marine Corps M16A4 with a Tijicon ACOG scope.
These are loaded with 62 grain M855 ammunition.
The Army is still issuing M14 rifles for Designated Marksman use.
These are loaded with 168 grain or 173 grain match grade full metal jacket 7.62 NATO.

Are you guys confusing the Mk12 M-0 Navy use and Mk12 Mod-1 everybody else use Special Operation Group rifles?
These are the only rifles I know of that are specifically designed to be used with the 77 grain ammunition.

 

[MCgunner]

My son-in-law just got home from Iraq from his second tour, Texas National Guard. He was issued an M4 with aimpoint over there.

 

[C-D-P]

"The only 5.56 Designated Marksman Rifle I know of that is called as such is the Marine Corps M16A4 with a Tijicon ACOG scope.
These are loaded with 62 grain M855 ammunition.
The Army is still issuing M14 rifles for Designated Marksman use.
These are loaded with 168 grain or 173 grain match grade full metal jacket 7.62 NATO.

Are you guys confusing the Mk12 M-0 Navy use and Mk12 Mod-1 everybody else use Special Operation Group rifles?
These are the only rifles I know of that are specifically designed to be used with the 77 grain ammunition."

All of the DM rifles in 5.56 were designed to use the MK 262.

Additionally you are supposed to use it in the M4 because it fragments at a lower velocity than the M855, so with the M4s shorter barrel, you do not loose lethality.

The SAM-R is used by the Corps. It is essentially an M16 A4 but they are built where the A4 is not.

The same with the Army's version (SDM-R). It is almost exactly the same as the SAM-R.

The MK12 is essentially the same as the above, but has an M4 lower, different hand guards, and some other modifications.