For Freedom
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What does the M110 do that an M14 modified by SEI can't do?
So what rifles are being used in Iraq and Afghanistan?
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Titan6
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I am currently home on leave from Iraq (not exactly home I'm at the beach). All of the above are correct to a degree.
I have been gosh darn lucky enough to have spent time in just about every part of Iraq except for the North (and maybe we go there next). All of the above weapons are in use and I even saw one (1) M1 Garand in BIAP carried by a soldier.
Every version of the M16/ 4 is represented as well as the M14 110 .50 and a few others. Shotguns from Mossies to Remingtons and even Berrettas.
Commanders of units have been given great leeway to proscute the war as they see best in their area so one unit may have more long range marksmen and another might have a bunch of less lethal type weapons and shotguns.
I have used the AK on a number of occasions to train Iraqi Army (as well as a bunch of other old soviet style stuff) but US troops simply do not carry them. They are by and large junk (cover your ears AK lovers) when compared to the M4 and other US weapons. Even if a soldier wanted to carry an AK any commander would likely be crucified for allowing his soldiers to carry them as they are not authorized, don't work as well, are not zeroed, don't have a good logisitical tail and so on and so forth for a number of other good reasons.
The great majority of Iraqi soldiers know that the AK are junk and are thrilled by a rebuilt M16A2. Units that are issued AR style weapons are often new units and go through a few extra days of training as well.
We do from time to time give AKs to our terps when the circumstances and permissions merit. But in most cases this is simply a bad idea as the terps are not well trained and don't like to get involved in the shooting anyway. Army terps wear ACUs and may look remarkably like soldiers (you would too if you knew you were a high payoff target). Marine terps often wear flight suits and therefore resemble the majority of Marines on the ground. Terps don't normally carry extra ammo so they are really just keeping their heads down and trying not to get in the way.
Nearly every rifle in Iraq has an optic of some kind on it as well as a flip up sight. These vary greatly from aimpoints to high dollar Trijicon scopes. Although only certain scopes are authorized if the war is actually going on in an area (as opposed to sitting around the FOB and going on occasional patrol) the rules are seldom enforced.
Civilian security contractors carry a literal plethora of firearms based upon the company and mission. They don't wear US uniforms though so are easy to spot.
I have been gosh darn lucky enough to have spent time in just about every part of Iraq except for the North (and maybe we go there next). All of the above weapons are in use and I even saw one (1) M1 Garand in BIAP carried by a soldier.
Every version of the M16/ 4 is represented as well as the M14 110 .50 and a few others. Shotguns from Mossies to Remingtons and even Berrettas.
Commanders of units have been given great leeway to proscute the war as they see best in their area so one unit may have more long range marksmen and another might have a bunch of less lethal type weapons and shotguns.
I have used the AK on a number of occasions to train Iraqi Army (as well as a bunch of other old soviet style stuff) but US troops simply do not carry them. They are by and large junk (cover your ears AK lovers) when compared to the M4 and other US weapons. Even if a soldier wanted to carry an AK any commander would likely be crucified for allowing his soldiers to carry them as they are not authorized, don't work as well, are not zeroed, don't have a good logisitical tail and so on and so forth for a number of other good reasons.
The great majority of Iraqi soldiers know that the AK are junk and are thrilled by a rebuilt M16A2. Units that are issued AR style weapons are often new units and go through a few extra days of training as well.
We do from time to time give AKs to our terps when the circumstances and permissions merit. But in most cases this is simply a bad idea as the terps are not well trained and don't like to get involved in the shooting anyway. Army terps wear ACUs and may look remarkably like soldiers (you would too if you knew you were a high payoff target). Marine terps often wear flight suits and therefore resemble the majority of Marines on the ground. Terps don't normally carry extra ammo so they are really just keeping their heads down and trying not to get in the way.
Nearly every rifle in Iraq has an optic of some kind on it as well as a flip up sight. These vary greatly from aimpoints to high dollar Trijicon scopes. Although only certain scopes are authorized if the war is actually going on in an area (as opposed to sitting around the FOB and going on occasional patrol) the rules are seldom enforced.
Civilian security contractors carry a literal plethora of firearms based upon the company and mission. They don't wear US uniforms though so are easy to spot.
steveracer
Member
THE DIRTY ONES
I'm using an M-16A2, and so are all of my men. Our sister unit (in the 101st) all have M-4s and most have optics. Sadly, every third or fourth rifle I see seems to be terribly neglected, and really very, very dusty. So, to answer your question, "what rifle's are being used in Iraq" the answer is, "The dirty ones."
I've taken to inspecting my unit's weapons every day, and kicking ass for dirty ones. This doesn't seem to effect other guys. I look around in disgust every day at the DFAC at the nasty conditions of the weapons here.
I'm using an M-16A2, and so are all of my men. Our sister unit (in the 101st) all have M-4s and most have optics. Sadly, every third or fourth rifle I see seems to be terribly neglected, and really very, very dusty. So, to answer your question, "what rifle's are being used in Iraq" the answer is, "The dirty ones."
I've taken to inspecting my unit's weapons every day, and kicking ass for dirty ones. This doesn't seem to effect other guys. I look around in disgust every day at the DFAC at the nasty conditions of the weapons here.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Because the 249 is MUCH easier to carry around and use in house to house fighting.
Thin Black Line
Member
I prefer my house-to-house upper-floor fighting to be pre-breached in
advance by the Air Force.
Dang...I'm standing around bored with my mossberg again...
advance by the Air Force.
Dang...I'm standing around bored with my mossberg again...
steveracer
Member
TBL,
I couldn't agree more. I LOVE being bored here. It's a wonderful thing indeed.
I couldn't agree more. I LOVE being bored here. It's a wonderful thing indeed.
Thin Black Line
Member
I remember a lot of pre-breached buildings in Baghdad. Really big holes.
Get a tour of Saddam's bunker while you're there.
Get a tour of Saddam's bunker while you're there.
jeffsenpai
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titan6: thanks for you post, but what is a "terp"? and also what is BIAP. Sorry but these are unfamiliar to me
steveracer
Member
BIAP Baghdad International AirPort.
Jeremy2171
Member
Are interpreters...
"LN's" Local Nationals
"TCN's" Third Country Nationals
There are a whole slew of acronyms that I could on and on about...
doc2rn
Member
I have seen Marines carry M-998, AK-47, PPPSH, A2, A3, M4, 249, 240G, and a slew of others but I cant name them all, and that is just in the pics on this board.
MatthewVanitas
Member
Dangit, not this argument again...
This one's been rehashed a bunch of times (not to hassle doc2rn personally), but to summarize:
-I've heard rumors that some rear-echelon units during the 2003 entry picked up AKs for their "TO M9 only" personnel, who didn't feel warm and fuzzy just carrying an M9. Never saw such a thing personally. I've not heard of even rumors of front-line troops ditching their M16s in favor of an AK.
-In 2004, I saw a grand total of fewer than a dozen servicemen who carried non-standard arms. One USMC captain carry a FAMAS that he got from "somewhere", and a SeaBee petty officer who carried a folder AK. The others were all on one EOD team with a very, very accommodating gunny. The GySgt was M9 only, so carried a collapsing-stock Iranian G3 in his Humvee for emergencies, one of his LCpl drivers had a Sterling in the vehicle as a "to break contact, drive with one hand and stick other out window with subgun", and one kid mounted a PK-C onto a ring-mount since they were short on crew-serveds. I don't know if they actually used those individual items, but they used them to fill in gaps in their TO gear (and for bravado). That was literally all the divergence I saw on that matter.
-If you've seen lots of cool pics of servicemen carrying Iraqi weapons, it's likely that 90% or better were staged for the camera. I still regret that I never got around to my plan: go EOD, borrow their Shpagin (PPSh), and get one of their kids to photograph me pretending to clear a ladderwell in the EOD office.
Example:
(Not sure to thumbnail, so I'll just link to my example pic)
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=46787&d=1161581634
Looks awesome, but I got to hold it for all of two minutes, so be wary of assumptions based on photographs.
Oh, regarding the M14. In six months on a very, very large base in Afghanistan, I've seen all of three M14s. Two were in rather beat wooden stocks, and one was in an all-tricked-out modern stock (I don't know the brand or nomenclature). I'm still baffled by the wishful insistence that the US military is on the very verge of full-reissue of the M14 and M1911A1. I've seen one single .45 pistol in three deployments.
Just my 2c.
So Matt, I take it you've only seen the M16A2, M16A4, and M4.
I didn't mention machine guns or pistols as the topic is "What rifles are being used in Iraq and Afghanistan?"
Seeing how you're a Marine, I suppose y'all don't use the M4. From what I've heard and read, y'all use the M16A4 rather than the M4.
See any of the 5.56mm designated marksman rifles? How about the M110?
I didn't mention machine guns or pistols as the topic is "What rifles are being used in Iraq and Afghanistan?"
Seeing how you're a Marine, I suppose y'all don't use the M4. From what I've heard and read, y'all use the M16A4 rather than the M4.
See any of the 5.56mm designated marksman rifles? How about the M110?
MatthewVanitas
Member
My Iraq info is rather out of date (2003, 2004), but in Afghanistan I'm seeing primarily M4s (joint-service environment, so not seeing as many Marine A4s). Marines had very few M4s in Iraq in '04 (in '03 the only ones I saw were for LAR crewmen and the like), but the proportion is increasing these days as there is some issue of M4s to O/SNCOs, vehicle crewmen, etc., though the A4 still predominates. A2s are becoming somewhat of a lower-echelon type weapon, something that you give to troops that don't generally leave the FOB (forward operating base).
I saw a handful of M16A1s in Iraq in '04, all carried by SeaBees. Haven't seen it since, though also haven't been working with SeaBees since that time.
So far as DMRs, I have not seen a specific DMR rifle in use, but the Marines were tending to simply pick good shooters, give them some extra courses of instruction and an ACOG for their A4, and refer to them as "designated marksmen", so there's some crossover of terminlogy. Other Marines update me if I'm behind the times (was off active for a couple years), but "DM" is more of a billet than a shooting system, last I checked.
Not familiar with the M110.
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steveracer
Member
I saw an M-14 yesterday at the DFAC at Camp Victory. Very dark wood stock. The soldier carrying it was nice and friendly, but no cameras in the DFAC, so I have no pic for you. He told me that his commander insisted that one man in each squad (in his unit) carries an M-14. They have to de-link M240B ammo to load mags.
I've seen plenty of Marines with M-4s, and some EOD cats with Mk-18s. Once in a blue moon you see an MP-5, but most prefer the MK-18, as mags are more plentiful and easier to make reliable. (This directly from an EOD Lieutenant Commander)
The M-16 A2 is here in only slightly fewer numbers that M-4s, and the M-16A4 isn't limited to the Marines. There are many of them in the hands of the Army here as well.
You didn;t ask about pistols, but the Aussies, and the Brits carry the HiPower pretty much exclusively. They have Steyr AUGs and the SA-58s for long arms.
The Taiwanese carry a sidearm I'm not familiar with. Looks, holstered, like a really big Makarov. Not sure what that is.
Their long arm is what looks like a 5.56 version of the Cetme. Again, not sure about it.
The Tonga Marines (palace guards) carry M-4/203s and M-11 (Sig 228) pistols.
The Ugandan guys (who are the friendliest and most professional bunch here) are carrying Smith and Wesson M&P-15s and Glock 19s.
I've seen plenty of Marines with M-4s, and some EOD cats with Mk-18s. Once in a blue moon you see an MP-5, but most prefer the MK-18, as mags are more plentiful and easier to make reliable. (This directly from an EOD Lieutenant Commander)
The M-16 A2 is here in only slightly fewer numbers that M-4s, and the M-16A4 isn't limited to the Marines. There are many of them in the hands of the Army here as well.
You didn;t ask about pistols, but the Aussies, and the Brits carry the HiPower pretty much exclusively. They have Steyr AUGs and the SA-58s for long arms.
The Taiwanese carry a sidearm I'm not familiar with. Looks, holstered, like a really big Makarov. Not sure what that is.
Their long arm is what looks like a 5.56 version of the Cetme. Again, not sure about it.
The Tonga Marines (palace guards) carry M-4/203s and M-11 (Sig 228) pistols.
The Ugandan guys (who are the friendliest and most professional bunch here) are carrying Smith and Wesson M&P-15s and Glock 19s.
The Poms (Brits) carry the SA-80. As stated in steveracer's reply, Aussies carry an Australian made variant of the Steyr AUG called the F88 Austeyr. AI AW rifles are used by both the Poms and Aussies, or at least the Aussies, in 7.62Nato, .338 Lapua and .50BMG.
Cheers, have a good one.
Cheers, have a good one.
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