Something to think ABOUT!

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dersequim

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My Armorer and I were discussing Ballistics and Penetration Factors. He is in AZ, I'm from WA.

At the time I was looking for a HandGun Caliber Rifle, mostly 357 or 40! We discussed Kel-Tec SUB 2000's because of the ability of using the same Mags from my 40 in that weapon. Also the fact that I could also find HC Mags for it!

He offhandedly asked me, "Do you pack HP's in that 40 or your 9 UP THERE?"
"YEA"
"In the Winter also?"
"YES"
"ARE You sure the 9 will penetrate HEAVY CLOTHING prior to EXPANSION?"
"DUH! WHAT?"
WE went on to discuss other Cal's like 380 and 25 etc!

JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT!

BTW: That discussion led to me NOW having a HG and Rifle in the SAME Rifle
Caliber!;)
 
There is a wealth of information on this subject on the Internet, and a few threads include people who actually know something about the subject. But you often find it in the Strategies and Tactics section. See if a Search helps you.
 
Well, Im not quite sure how I should respond given that the original post is somewhat, umm..convoluted. But, Ill give it a shot anyway.

In a "nutshell"-

I prefer a 12ga. SG loaded with 00 Buckshot, so.....

If this does not work, I have the .45 ACP on "standby."

Body armor? Well, seeing as how I do not plan on SWAT or ATF breaking down my door, I think the previously mentioned alternatives will do just fine given my particular needs.
 
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If someone in heavy clothing came to my door, I'd only have to wait a while for the heat to kill em itself =)

God bless Texas!

(Either that, or use the flamethrower.)
 
I also now have a pistol (actually 2) and a rifle in the same caliber. I just picked up a Cx4 in .40:) Now I am happy and can stop searching for a .357 rifle of my liking. I'm still looking for one, just going to be WAY more picky about it.
 
BTW: That discussion led to me NOW having a HG and Rifle in the SAME Rifle Caliber!
Click to expand...

Not to be a donkey, but I wanted to clarify something about this statement. A .40 s&w is not a rifle caliber. The correct term would be a rifle (likely carbine) in a handgun caliber. Do not get me wrong, handgun caliber carbines have a definite place in SD, and the .40 would be the best choice for it, I think. You gain some muzzle velocity, significant accuracy, and more control of the weapon.

However, a handgun caliber carbine will never perform to the potential of a rifle in a full rifle caliber in velocity, accuracy, penetration, and stopping power. While it can offer definite advantages over a handgun in the afore mentioned, it will not substitute for a rifle when a rifle is needed. Just my $0.02.

PS: I want a Beretta Storm Carbine in .40 and only shoot .40 in my handguns
 
My load of 180gr LRNFP in my 1894C Marlin will do just about anything from contact to 150 yds. 180 gr full loads from a 20" barrel is in 30-30 territory.
 
I think this whole discussion fell somewhat off the tracks. I know the first posting was worded a little odd, but I think it was expressing a concern about hollow points getting clogged with clothing before hitting flesh and not being able to expand as designed. That is a real concern with some people and I wonder about it myself.
You realize this is marketing hype from the ammo maker, right? There are some tests out there which would give one pause in using PowR'Ball ammo.

http://www.thegunzone.com/powrball.html
Click to expand...

Short of only carrying FMJ in the winter what other option is there for a hand gun if HPs do have a problem with winter clothing. We're all learning here, well at least some of us.
 
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The Intent!

Was 'Tounge in Cheek' to express an EYE opening discussion!

THANK YOU W L for getting the message BACK on track.

As long as I've been a gun owner, a 22 Pump Winchester at 9-60 years ago, NO ONE has ever discussed the afore mentioned concern regarding the impact of Hollowpoints and HEAVY clothing!

Since coming back in May, to Wa from Az, I have discussed this subject with fellow Gunners and a couple of LEO's. Their reaction ran along the same lines as my posted conversation.

It leads me to believe that 'shot load' SD loads, we know what FMJ DO, would be more effective than HP's.

Maybe I should of approached the subject along those lines from the beginning! He did later suggest those loads to me. I have them in my HD
weapons here. When I return to Az, I will decide, after more discussion, weather to load with HP's again, except for the 223.

For: Colorado Handgunner, The HG and Rifle are BOTH 223!

Thanks to those who posted the AMMO links! Very informitive.

BTW: I passed the 22 on to my Son about a year ago, he shot it as a child. It was also my Father's first gun. My Son intends to give it to his son in about 4 years.
 
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It's still a metal projectile traveling at high speed, and it's still gonna ruin the day of the receiver. FMJ - does not expand. JHP - may expand, but if it doesn't you're back to something very closely resembling square one. IMO, JHP might not help, but it certainly can't hurt. Might as well go for a possible advantage.
 
One point that seems to be missed here IS!

He questioned the 9! Not the 40, then I guess I should of brought up what psy.... just eluded to. Either way 'It's going to HURT!

But at my age I want 'stop' not hurt! I tried my sons friend's 44 Mag. My wrist won't take that. Actually his 45 was comfortable, but that gets me back to the 40.

But I have to reveal that I still prefer my 357's. The 40 is actually my back-up.

My Daughter even continued to carry her Ruger 357, before she left, when her dept went to Glock 9's. BTW: She had the HIGHEST score in her Academy Class so the Chief backed her when she didn't want to change.


A funny side bar is my Son went to the range one day with the 9. He forgot that it had the Shot shells in it. WE had a long talk about that! He fired the first shot, SOMETHING sounded different! DUH! The target had 3 holes in it! WHOOPS!
 
He questioned the 9! Not the 40,
Click to expand...

Any caliber JHP is subject to the same variables. Any JHP can be plugged by clothing. That is not a 9mm thing, it is not a .40 cal thing, it is not a .45 thing...
 
I can't conceal a pistol in a rifle caliber.

I see no point with a rifle in a pistol caliber. I can either get the power of a true rifle cartridge in the same size weapon (e.g. M4gery) or I can get the same power in a much smaller and concealable weapon (handgun).

There might be some benefit if you're pairing a revolver and levergun in .357 or .44 Magnum so you can interchange the ammo while getting some of the benefits of each, but in the autoloader calibers, I see no benefit.
 
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