Sometimes Peaceful Protest Works

[Wheeler44]

America is bad people, Free thought is bad, Capitalism is bad, embrace the great society where the government tells you what you may read and see. Love the masters of the great peoples utopia where we just disappear people who don't toe the party line.

No offense Marcus but I think you should add free speech and the right to assembly to the above

I'll give the Chinese one thing. I love the whole executing criminals and sending their family the bill for the bullet.

since it's Chinese at least it would be cheap.

 

[MarcusWendt]

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

Quiz any American High School student on history and you'll be lucky if they know what a record player is. Quiz a Chinese student on history and they'll tell you what happened that in in 1449.

Obviously that is a gross generalization, but I do believe the Chinese have a much more broad way of thinking politically.

 

[Rachen]

It's not every day you get this much Chinese communist propaganda delivered right to your gun forum.

Rachen, only time will tell what China's true intentions are, but I strongly disagree with you that those protesters should have been killed and imprisoned. I think they were very brave people, people I will admire for their willingness to risk their lives for what they believe.

When I read what you right about stamping our capitalism and then read that you support the republican party I have to wonder if YOU know what you really support.

I know the Chinese are very deep thinking people and think in term of hundreds of years where we Americans tend to think a bit more short term. When I read what you wrote I can't help but wonder if you are some kind of agent of the Chinese government. Not like 007 or CIA or anything, but just one who learns our ways, makes connections, only to turn on us later.

I doubt you love America. I think you are just a great parrot of propaganda.

I never opposed capitalism. However, when capitalism leads to extortion, embezzlement, or other financial wrongdoings, such as destroying the environment with so much pollutants, then, someone has to stand up and say "All right, stop it RIGHT NOW, until you can get your act together again". Governments and economic systems are just like mankind, they need a clear leader to show them the right path, otherwise, chaos and turbulence will reign.

Do you know that the 6-4 protesters were actually protesters in the beginning, but not any more after June 2nd? True, there were students in the square, bu after May 29th, when Zhang Zhiyang stepped out onto the platform and urged the students to stop, and go home, the majority of the students left. However, a different bunch of people came. Rabble rousers, elements of the defeated Gang Of Four who wanted to usurp the CCP during Chairman Mao's reign. They came in with the intentions of wrecking violent vengeance upon those who previously denied them power. And on the night June 2nd, things got really, really nasty, and the thing that led the soldiers of the PLA to open fire, was the brutal murders of 23 PLA soldiers, some of them nailed to the hoods of their APCs with railroad spikes.

You can doubt all about me, but remember that I also work to promote the 2nd Amendment in a place where there is so much hatred against it. If I was a person who would turn upon his friends, I wouldn't have the time to be involved in good deeds, since I was a very young boy in elementary school.

 

[Tyris]

Of course not. We will overlook a long history of oppression as long as they continue to supply us with the cheap imports upon which we unfortunately have become dependent.

I think you're close, let me try to take a swing at it:

Of course not. We will overlook a long history of oppression as long as they continue to buy our government bonds at federal debt auctions upon which we unfortunately have become dependent.

Also helps if they dont dump their massive dollar reserves on the foreign exchange market, sending the value of our currency down the toilet even further.

They own the US these days.

-T

 

[Rachen]

Who determines what is detrimental? Does it have to be established empirically and scientifically as detrimental or is it simply that someone, somewhere thinks it might possibly one day become detrimental?

What's detrimental? Here's what's detrimental. If something can influence children to cut school, neglect their education, experiment with things that are of a great hazard to their physical and mental health, and teach them to grow up later neglecting the ideals of family and country, that is a detrimental thing.

I think rap and XXX videos all fit into the above mentioned category of detrimental. Rebuff me if you think I am wrong.

 

[230RN]

I don't know where you got your little blurb from the History Channel, but their "This Day in History" page for today has the picture of the student in front of the tank as the link for the video as well as showing it in the video itself on this page. It doesn't seem like they were hiding anything.

OK, I apologize for that. They have so many miscellaneous links in their subscription newsletters that I long ago gave up opening them. There was no pic in the version I got.

Rachen, I welcome your input. It's nice to hear the "other side" once in a while, although it seems salted with a little extra sloganeering.

Not that Americans aren't guilty of sloganeering in our own right, you understand.

All through the "Cold War" I was reading Russian novels and hearing Russian music, and I wondered what the heck we were struggling over.

Then I realized it was not the Politicians who wrote that music and those books.

It was the people.

And I discovered I had nothing against the Russian people.

Just the government.

 

[357WheelGun]

What's detrimental? Here's what's detrimental. If something can influence children to cut school, neglect their education, experiment with things that are of a great hazard to their physical and mental health, and teach them to grow up later neglecting the ideals of family and country, that is a detrimental thing.

I think rap and XXX videos all fit into the above mentioned category of detrimental. Rebuff me if you think I am wrong.

Well, somehow I managed to look at a lot of porn and still manage a GPA above 4.0 and become a National Merit Scholar in HS, as well as graduate from College Magna Cum Laude with a degree in Finance. I have never used drugs, though I know many people who are successful in their business and personal lives who did once use drugs.

The problem with your definition is that it includes anything that "can" cause something. By a purely logical application of your definition, guns fall within the category of items that "can influence children to cut school, neglect their education, experiment with things that are of a great hazard to their physical and mental health, and teach them to grow up later neglecting the ideals of family and country". Professional sports are another thing that technically falls under your definition of detrimental. Should we outlaw all professional sports too? After all, they can encourage kids to neglect their education. How about outlawing divorce? If divorce wasn't allowed, there would be fewer people neglecting their families.

I do not "think" you are wrong. I know you are.

Children drop out of school because the school has failed them, not because of rap or pornography. Removing pornography and/or rap music will not stop this problem.

Lastly, the individual is paramount. Country is secondary. The ideal of the free individual is far above the ideals of family and country. The free individual may choose, of his own free will to place his family or country above himself, but ONLY HE has the right to do so. No outside entity has any right to force him to.

 

[MarcusWendt]

Do you know that the 6-4 protesters were actually protesters in the beginning, but not any more after June 2nd? True, there were students in the square, bu after May 29th, when Zhang Zhiyang stepped out onto the platform and urged the students to stop, and go home, the majority of the students left. However, a different bunch of people came. Rabble rousers, elements of the defeated Gang Of Four who wanted to usurp the CCP during Chairman Mao's reign. They came in with the intentions of wrecking violent vengeance upon those who previously denied them power. And on the night June 2nd, things got really, really nasty, and the thing that led the soldiers of the PLA to open fire, was the brutal murders of 23 PLA soldiers, some of them nailed to the hoods of their APCs with railroad spikes.

I know that In September 1989, Beijing officials set up an exhibit at the city's military museum with faked pictures to support that lie. I also know that the Chinese government states "not one person" was killed in Tiananmen Square and only 241 people died when PLA troops and "rioters" fought in the streets. The number killed is much closer to 2,600 according to the Red Cross. The Red Cross later lowered those numbers under extreme pressure from the government.

You can doubt all about me, but remember that I also work to promote the 2nd Amendment in a place where there is so much hatred against it. If I was a person who would turn upon his friends, I wouldn't have the time to be involved in good deeds, since I was a very young boy in elementary school.

I think we call that a "sleeper"

 

[MarcusWendt]

The problem with your definition is that it includes anything that "can" cause something.

Rachen doesn't seem to understand the concept of free will. Coming from a communist country that doesn't surprise me. His argument is akin to Guns make you kill people. A funny position for a 2A supporter.

 

[Rachen]

I think we call that a "sleeper"

So when have we started to resort to personal insults and extremely defaming comments during civilized conversation?

I know that In September 1989, Beijing officials set up an exhibit at the city's military museum with faked pictures to support that lie. I also know that the Chinese government states "not one person" was killed in Tiananmen Square and only 241 people died when PLA troops and "rioters" fought in the streets. The number killed is much closer to 2,600 according to the Red Cross. The Red Cross later lowered those numbers under extreme pressure from the government.

Of course, most western media sources would say such lies about us, when all they want is to see our downfall at their hands.

I am getting tired of this.

It's about time this thread is locked.

 

[arthurcw]

What's detrimental? Here's what's detrimental. If something can influence children to cut school, neglect their education, experiment with things that are of a great hazard to their physical and mental health, and teach them to grow up later neglecting the ideals of family and country, that is a detrimental thing.

I think rap and XXX videos all fit into the above mentioned category of detrimental. Rebuff me if you think I am wrong.

Ok.. I’ll agree. That will p**s off the Libertarians. The Question becomes WHO then gets to decide what is detrimental and why? Is it the guys with the bigger guns as is the case in most of the world or is it based on some standard that transcends human utilitarianism and imbues humans with an innate dignity? Is it simply that the State must survive or that the State must serve a higher purpose?

If those things are outlawed merely for the survival of the State, then you allow ANYTHING to happen as long as it preserves the status quo of the state. It’s a tricky game that can only be judged in one way. The fruits of the State. I would put to you that NEITHER of our States is bearing good fruit at the moment because BOTH are doing things solely for the good of the State, not its people. So what is the duty of the citizens?

The crucible then is the hearts of those who call these countries home. If you support your government NO MATTER WHAT and find no fault with it because it makes the trains run on time, then you have failed in a basic duty to all your brothers and sisters in your land. Your duty should be to love your country with all you heart and soul but condemn ALL acts that are purely for the state; not to adopt the “you have to break a few eggs” attitude.

Therefore, I find it hard to understand a person who whole heartedly supports a Government that FORCES women to have abortions and if they go into hiding, arrests their families, ransacks their home and land, and then when the child is brought to be registered, they demand exorbitant penalties for the release of the family. All this is done SIMPLY for the good of the state so the state can maintain its hold on the people.

I find it hard to understand a person who sees his country with no guilt for his government in destroying the lives of people who descent. I just don’t understand.

I would expect the same confused look if I was to address a person from another country and extol the virtues of creating a slave class of semi-legal workers or the wonders of our education system that teaches nothing useful but makes sure kids can only be wards of the state when they grow up.

I’m sure you love your country. It’s a beautiful land rich in heritage and culture. What the West did to it for so many years is a travesty that MUST be owned up to some day. But please, don’t justify the destruction of the lives of your people under the fallacy that if it’s not your own kind oppressing you, they the west surely will.

 

[MarcusWendt]

So when have we started to resort to personal insults and extremely defaming comments during civilized conversation?

It's not an insult, it's a concern.

Of course, most western media sources would say such lies about us, when all they want is to see our downfall at their hands.

I am getting tired of this.

It's about time this thread is locked.

Go figure, when faced with the unhappy truth, you want this censored. You can take the boy out of communism, but you can't take the communism out of the boy.

 

[Justin]

4. The Falun Gong and their mesmerizing speeches and promises have resulted in the deaths of approximately 10,000 people between 1992 and 1997.

Mere peanuts to the 30 million whose deaths can be attributed to Chairman Mao.

It's because of the so called right to free speech that Playboy and other filthy elements are rife in American society today.

OH NOES! Not Playboy magazine! Rachen, here's a little thing that you and your advanced, multi-millennium-old society hasn't seemed to grasp:

Freedom and liberty are for everyone. Including people who do things that, while you may not like them, are absolutely harmless. This includes looking at pictures of naked women. And, quite frankly, I'll take any of the supposed "harms" represented by the presence of legally available girly magazines over a government that has jailed people merely for speaking up about safe sex and AIDS prevention.

And what defends these filthy rappers who preach violence, killing, and drug dealing in their lyrics?

The fact that they have a fundamental right to say what they wish, no matter how provocative the content may be. Incidentally, in case you hadn't noticed, Gangsta Rap went out of major style sometime in the mid 1990's, all on its own.

Isn't it the right to free speech?

Damn straight it is. And I'm proud to live in a nation who's citizens are willing to tolerate the expression of ideas that may be unpopular or deliberately offensive. I'll take the freedom to choose over the "freedom" to not be challenged, offended, or even disgusted.

Isn't it the right to free speech that was used against Charlton Heston when he pressed charges against the rap industry back in the 1990s, because of one extremely disgusting lyric?

This has already been addressed, suffice it to say, your perception of these events is laughably off-base.

 

[rainbowbob]

I didn't get through the first paragraph of the OP's post before realizing that this was going to turn into a "Rachen-Fest". Now 60+ posts later...I'm not disappointed!

You go, Rachen!

No, seriously...go! Go home and enjoy those delightful freedoms and rights bestowed upon you by the CCP.

And when you are there without a means of self-defense or any defense against tyranny - think about the difference between privileges bestowed upon its citizens by a government - and rights that are recognized by a government to be "self-evident" and "inalienable".

We do not always measure up to the ideals of our own Constitution. But a government that is made by and for "We, The People" is a whole lot more free than a government that considers its people to be made for the purpose of advancing the aims of the state.

 

[Rachen]

The fact that they have a fundamental right to say what they wish, no matter how provocative the content may be. Incidentally, in case you hadn't noticed, Gangsta Rap went out of major style sometime in the mid 1990's, all on its own.

I don't think the grieving family members of a young NYC girl killed by a stray bullet last week fired from the hands of someone who literally took some hip hop lyrics to the streets would agree with that.

 

[Justin]

It's about time this thread is locked.

No, it's not.

I don't think the grieving family members of a young NYC girl killed by a stray bullet last week fired from the hands of someone who literally took some hip hop lyrics to the streets would agree with that.

How does one "literally" take hip hop lyrics to the streets? Perhaps by writing them on a sandwich board?

Regardless, hip hop, rap, or any form of music have absolutely nothing to do with causing someone's death. That murder was a choice, deliberately made by the miscreant who pulled the trigger of his own free will.

 

[MarcusWendt]

I don't think the grieving family members of a young NYC girl killed by a stray bullet last week fired from the hands of someone who literally took some hip hop lyrics to the streets would agree with that.

So based on that event, we should outlaw rap because this family is grieving? While I feel for them, uh, NO!!!!

The import of Cheap Chinese product is negatively affecting my business, are you o.k. if we just cease all trade with China since it's bothering me?

 

[Justin]

You will find Bumfights and Ghettofights, amongst many other pestilential sewers on google too. But that doesn't make you think they are all good, right?

No, because I'm capable of exercising judgment and employing critical thinking. On top of that, I have the interminable audacity to believe that my fellow humans are capable the same thing!

But, hey, how many people have died making Bumfights videos, as opposed to the numbers of dead as a result of Mao's Great Leap Forward?

By that comparison, which is the greater sewer?

 

[Rachen]

How does one "literally" take hip hop lyrics to the streets? Perhaps by writing them on a sandwich board?

I can't believe you didn't realize I was using figurative language, meaning that he followed some hip hop preaching and went out there and pretended to be a real bad-a** gangster, with that .380 pointed sideways and baseball cap cocked, and ended up taking the life of a young girl who had a promising future.

deliberately made by the miscreant who pulled the trigger of his own free will.

I can't believe it Actually defending the killer and saying that he has free will to do whatever he wants?

 

[Big45]

Wow, Mod-extrordinaire-Justin heads up vs. Rachen....this is awesome!

 

[qwert65]

Let me tell you one thing though: Any war that results between China and any other nation will be the result of the aggression of the second party. In it's 5,000 year history, China has never waged war against anybody else. All of the wars we fought were to defend our beloved country, and I pity the foreign invader on our soil.

Rachen, did the vietnamese attack you in the 70's? what about korea? How about the Boxer rebellion?

You say you support gun rights do you live in NYC? cause you shouldn't have one for "saftey purposes" (hey it's your gov)

have you ever SEEN proof of these attacks? I mean physical evidence not well they said. and as for our society. our great leader, whatever his flaws he dosen't molest young girls(Mao)

are you against capitalism? do you think people need to show cause to own a firearm? has your gov ever made a mistake?

 

[qwert65]

357 wheelgun how do you get above 4.0 GPA cause I could use it

 

[Rachen]

have you ever SEEN proof of these attacks? I mean physical evidence not well they said. and as for our society. our great leader, whatever his flaws dosen't molest young girls

Can we first, clear up our language and stop insulting foreign leaders, whether you like them or not, before we proceed with this conversation?

The Viets did attack us in the 1970s, yes, after all we helped them during their little war from 1945-1975. They came back and bit us so hard, after we helped them and aided them with our own blood during the middle of the century. It still drives me to tears when I think of that.

Did I say I was against capitalism in general?, read my post a little ways up, it should be clear enough.

 

[Brian Dale]

I am a citizen of the US, but I am also a fierce Chinese patriot from Shanghai, and we Shanghainese are the most open minded and farthest thinking of all, since we live in the center of commerce and trade that is Shanghai.

Rachen, others have suggested that you are a Communist "sympathizer." I don't think so. Your posts in this thread read like the words of a patriotic Communist Chinese person who supports the Chinese Communist government.

Metaphorically, you are sitting between two chairs, sir.

 

[MarcusWendt]

This is a no win situation. Rachen, I applaud your mastery of the English language as an immigrant to this free land. For a guy who grew up speaking Chinese you are doing pretty well with the language.

Sadly you don't seem to understand the concept of free will. If you use that free will in violation of the law, we are subject to punishment.

You have murder in China. Is it caused by gangster rap?