johndoe1027
Member
Rattlesnake, thanks for your input. You would rather me leave my gun under the seat as opposed to exposing it? I just hate reaching for anything in this situation. 
SOP when getting pulled over while carrying
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VARifleman
Member
First off, don't reach for your wallet or gun, or whatever other crap was mentioned earlier in this thread. Some posters have pointed out that this is a bad idea. It could get you killed. Just find yourself a nice spot to pull over where there's a safe place for the LEO to deal with you (I don't know if it's right, but for interstates I like to pull just a little off the road, and have the officer converse through the passenger's side, officer gets better view of me, and has my car blocking any traffic). Put your hands on the wheel and roll down the window. WAIT for the officer to approach, if your state requires you to declare, do so with the word PERMIT or LICENSE before GUN or FIREARM. Something along the lines of "Sir, it is my duty to inform you that I have a permit for a concealed firearm, and am carrying right now, how would you like to proceed."
Now...if the officer asks to retrieve the firearm, personally, I would respond with "Sir, for both our safety, I don't think that that is a good idea because of the differences in firearms and holsters." It really isn't a good idea for anyone to try to remove my gun as that's just more unnecessary handling of a loaded gun. I don't want that going off in my pants, and I don't want the officers partner to think that I just fired and come and kill me.
Now...if the officer asks to retrieve the firearm, personally, I would respond with "Sir, for both our safety, I don't think that that is a good idea because of the differences in firearms and holsters." It really isn't a good idea for anyone to try to remove my gun as that's just more unnecessary handling of a loaded gun. I don't want that going off in my pants, and I don't want the officers partner to think that I just fired and come and kill me.
Rattlesnake
Member
Sorry it's been a rough day..
I'd rather have you (whoever) in the vehicle while I write the citation that way if they decide to do anything stupid I have a little bit more time and distance. I'll ask to see the weapon. Why you ask? Because lets say i reach in without asking and discover a kilo of coke. Unless it was immediately observable, it'll probably get thrown out in court, thus I ask.
Trus story from one of my shooting enthusiast friends. This guy is a paraplegic and travels wiht his chair in the back of his van. On the way to a match, he's stopped by an officer from my now current employer. He tells this officer, that his license is in his chair, with his S&W .357 on the seat next to him Officer gets the handgun after driver consents. In clearing it he ejects all the rounds on the ground. why he didn't catch them in his hand and put them in his pockets I don't know. the gun has aftermarket hogue grips which obscure part of the SN. He tells the driver, and the driver explains that he can find the SN on the yoke. Ofc. takes the weapon back to his car runs it, and writes a citation. He goes back to the vehicle, puts the gun on the passenger seat, gets on his hands and knees
to pick up the ammo he dropped. My buddy tells him, don't worry about it, he has more in a box. Officer continues, picks up bullets on by one and puts them on the passenger seat. My buddy was shocked. He didn't get the guys name...I won't ever give somebody their gun back loaded. It's just bad juju and bad officer survival techniques/tactics. Depending on the situation, it may go on the passenger seat or on the passenger floorboard. Semi-auto will be slide closed on an empty chamber, no mag in. Revolver will be closed wiht ammo in a ziplock baggie. Something that will give me enough time to get to my car. I know as soon as I step away, that the first thing they'll do is probably load their weapon. Hopefully by that time I'm already in reverse backing away.
outofbattery
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2004
- Messages
- 874
I'm not obligated under state law to inform any officer that I'm carrying and won't do so unless asked.
I always pull out my license, CHL, and insurance before the officer approaches. I have it in my hand at the steering wheel. Really saves a lot of trouble that way. Since you get 4 or 5 copies of the insurance, I keep one in easy reach.
I don't mess with my gun at all. I have been stopped a few times. Two just asked what I was carrying. One pair asked me to step out until they saw the belly strap I was wearing, but didn't bother me after that. Didn't even give me a warning ticket so I had no complaints. The officers down here seem to be pretty easy going about it.
I don't mess with my gun at all. I have been stopped a few times. Two just asked what I was carrying. One pair asked me to step out until they saw the belly strap I was wearing, but didn't bother me after that. Didn't even give me a warning ticket so I had no complaints. The officers down here seem to be pretty easy going about it.
mek42
Member
For whatever it is worth, I was a witness to an accident once after receiving my pistol permit. I wasn't carrying at the time but still handed my DL and permit to the officer saying "I'm not armed today" when asked for my statement.
Since we have law enforcement folks here, do you feel more comfortable for the person to get DL / carry permit / registration / insurance out and available while you are running the plate (still in the car, haven't yet approached the vehicle) and then place hands on wheel with windows open and lights on (as appropriate)? Or does this sort of activity make you more nervous?
Since we have law enforcement folks here, do you feel more comfortable for the person to get DL / carry permit / registration / insurance out and available while you are running the plate (still in the car, haven't yet approached the vehicle) and then place hands on wheel with windows open and lights on (as appropriate)? Or does this sort of activity make you more nervous?
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
glummer, you're gonna be "run" anytime you break a law. If you're stopped for minor speeding, where the officer has already decided all he's gonna do is write a warning ticket, he'll do the writing after he's run the driver's license. Before he's approached your car, he's already run the make/model/license plate.
That's been SOP since as long as I've been driving--which is since around 1947.
Art
That's been SOP since as long as I've been driving--which is since around 1947.
Art
insidious_calm
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2004
- Messages
- 337
So what are the statistics? Exactly how many officers have been killed during a traffic stop BY A LICENSEE? In the last 20 years even? See, the 'logic' used by police in this situation is faulty. Why do they fear those that they serve? The single biggest indicator of future behavior is past behavior. CHL holders have no history of violent behavior.
I contend that the risk is far greater from the unecessary handling of a firearm by someone who may not even be familiar with it. Disarming someone is a stressful situation. The risk of negligent discharge in that situation is high. Reaching for a firearm from a likely awkward position while your attention is divided between the person you don't trust with the firearm and firearm itself is a recipe for disaster. This is especially true if the gun is in a pocket or under multiple layers of clothing.
Perhaps police should take a serious self evaluation and ask why they fear the general public so much. If you as a police officer have to fear what I will do with a firearm then maybe you need to take a long hard look at your actions and attitudes. This is especially true when you know up front that I have passed a state and federal background check and have demonstrated a history of responsible behavior in the public eye. This whole subject is indicative of whats wrong with law enforcement in america.
I.C.
I contend that the risk is far greater from the unecessary handling of a firearm by someone who may not even be familiar with it. Disarming someone is a stressful situation. The risk of negligent discharge in that situation is high. Reaching for a firearm from a likely awkward position while your attention is divided between the person you don't trust with the firearm and firearm itself is a recipe for disaster. This is especially true if the gun is in a pocket or under multiple layers of clothing.
Perhaps police should take a serious self evaluation and ask why they fear the general public so much. If you as a police officer have to fear what I will do with a firearm then maybe you need to take a long hard look at your actions and attitudes. This is especially true when you know up front that I have passed a state and federal background check and have demonstrated a history of responsible behavior in the public eye. This whole subject is indicative of whats wrong with law enforcement in america.
I.C.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
insidious calm, just because you and I are unconcerned about a person with a CHL doesn't mean that the rest of the world has the same viewpoint.
Look how excited the posts are, here, about some bad-cop thing. Yet, there are over a million cops in the U.S. And a lot of posters yowl about, basically, "all cops" being bad.
A CHL means a very high probability that the bearer is a Good Guy. Write me a guarantee, okay?
But back to the thread topic: My answer to the opening question is that common sense, knowledge of the law and then the old courtesy/politeness thing works for some 99% of the time. But Murphy never quits.
Art
Look how excited the posts are, here, about some bad-cop thing. Yet, there are over a million cops in the U.S. And a lot of posters yowl about, basically, "all cops" being bad.
A CHL means a very high probability that the bearer is a Good Guy. Write me a guarantee, okay?
But back to the thread topic: My answer to the opening question is that common sense, knowledge of the law and then the old courtesy/politeness thing works for some 99% of the time. But Murphy never quits.
Art
Rattlesnake
Member
I don't fear the general public. I see it as a professional courtesy. You're professional enough to carry, why not be professional enough to let me know that you're carrying. That's just me though...
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Last couple of times I've been stopped by the highway patrol for a slight excess of enthusiasm, my CHL seemed to be of little interest to the officers. Warning tickets. No biggie.
A buddy of mine, in some four stops, has wound up in discussions of the relative merits of Plus P vs. regular .357. Go figure.
I don't see why it's any big deal...
Art
A buddy of mine, in some four stops, has wound up in discussions of the relative merits of Plus P vs. regular .357. Go figure.
I don't see why it's any big deal...
Art
Rattlesnake
Member
yeah both guys with CCL we ended up chatting about firearms on the side of the road. A little PR stuff. the ohter lady didn't seem to be into guns too much, "My husband wanted me to take it on my trip..." I'll do what I can for ccl holders.
johndoe1027
Member
I like that a lot. I'll have to remember that is what it's called...
IMHO - there are two contrary viewpoints in these debates:
1. MY RIGHTS !!!
2. BEING SHOT IS BAD FOR ME !!
Having been in enough FOF as a fat old civilian and read lots of techy literature on stress, shooting and decision making - I go for #2.
Defusing the potential of an officer somehow misreading my gun possession and leading to the ultimate unpleasantness or even intermediate unpleasantness like being taken out of the car as a risk - I have no problem in telling them my status - even if I didn't have to.
Thus, I'm a wussy to pass on the the #1 absolutist view. I've always had a good experience with the local law when carrying. If I had a bad one, as long as I'm not SHOT, I can complain later in the appropriate manner.
1. MY RIGHTS !!!
2. BEING SHOT IS BAD FOR ME !!
Having been in enough FOF as a fat old civilian and read lots of techy literature on stress, shooting and decision making - I go for #2.
Defusing the potential of an officer somehow misreading my gun possession and leading to the ultimate unpleasantness or even intermediate unpleasantness like being taken out of the car as a risk - I have no problem in telling them my status - even if I didn't have to.
Thus, I'm a wussy to pass on the the #1 absolutist view. I've always had a good experience with the local law when carrying. If I had a bad one, as long as I'm not SHOT, I can complain later in the appropriate manner.
Ratlesnake
I mean, “explain”, as in, “use logically connected statements and facts.”
This comes up often in these threads, and the LEO types always chant “Officer Safety”, but no one will EXPLAIN how it supposedly works.
You seem to be saying that a driver:
A. Who is a legal permit holder;
B. who reveals that he is carrying
C. who allows you to take his gun
D. is going to turn around and shoot you afterwards.
It sounds like paranoid fantasy to me. And paranoid cops frighten me.
Are there any FACTS to say otherwise?
Has this EVER happened in the real world?
Art
Can you explain why?
I mean, “explain”, as in, “use logically connected statements and facts.”
This comes up often in these threads, and the LEO types always chant “Officer Safety”, but no one will EXPLAIN how it supposedly works.
You seem to be saying that a driver:
A. Who is a legal permit holder;
B. who reveals that he is carrying
C. who allows you to take his gun
D. is going to turn around and shoot you afterwards.
It sounds like paranoid fantasy to me. And paranoid cops frighten me.
Are there any FACTS to say otherwise?
Has this EVER happened in the real world?
Art
The post I quoted referred to running gun traces (not car traces) even though was no mention of anyone breaking any gun laws. Checking all gun owners “just-in-case” seems to me no different than checking all blacks “just-in-case.” It implies that all people in that group are guilty until proven innocent, and it scares me that people with guns & badges think like that.
You can substitute “Jew”, or “infidel”, or “black man dating a white woman” for “person with a CHL”, and make the same argument. It’s all about tolerating bigotry, it seems to me, and I find it objectionable.
Well,
I gotta say it, I think Glummer has some really good points here. Just because the police have pulled you ever, despite indications that the person is legal shouldn't provide expansive case for intrusion. Most especially because we know that the police can pretty much pull you over if they want.
I once got pulled over in a right turn only off ramp for not using my blinker, even though I was already in the ramp lane. I checked, you don't have to use your blinker for that in Oregon. Despite that, I was put through a full sobriety test and released (no ticket for the blinker) because I was dead sober. I got pulled over another time for driving with my fog lights on...wait for it...ON A FOGGY DAY! Searched and released.
I'll tell you what, that's not protect and serve. That's, "let's find any way we can to get the citizens." Are all cops like this? Hell no. But rights are expensive and _should_ trump safety when rights are so easily abused.
As the man (actually, the almanac) said, "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
I gotta say it, I think Glummer has some really good points here. Just because the police have pulled you ever, despite indications that the person is legal shouldn't provide expansive case for intrusion. Most especially because we know that the police can pretty much pull you over if they want.
I once got pulled over in a right turn only off ramp for not using my blinker, even though I was already in the ramp lane. I checked, you don't have to use your blinker for that in Oregon. Despite that, I was put through a full sobriety test and released (no ticket for the blinker) because I was dead sober. I got pulled over another time for driving with my fog lights on...wait for it...ON A FOGGY DAY! Searched and released.
I'll tell you what, that's not protect and serve. That's, "let's find any way we can to get the citizens." Are all cops like this? Hell no. But rights are expensive and _should_ trump safety when rights are so easily abused.
As the man (actually, the almanac) said, "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
never_summer
Member
i normally dont get tickets because my dad was a chief here in texas, and i know the chief of highway patrol. Even my nextdoor neighbors get off of tickets sometimes just talking about him.
Ive always thought common courtesy just to pull over to a safe spot, roll down the window with your hands on the steering wheel (dash lights turned on if its at night), greet the officer and give him your info. When i get my chl i will tell the officers i have it even if i dont have my ccw on me at the time. Ive heard if they run your plates they can tell, and not disclosing you have a firearm when they know you might just causes unwanted tension. Last time i got pulled over was at one in the morning out in the middle of nowhere with my dealer plates on, the officer said he really appreciated me being so courtious especially with all the crazies and drunks out. As much of a hassle some people get from the police and the bad rep tv can give them, i got some real respect for those guys
Ive always thought common courtesy just to pull over to a safe spot, roll down the window with your hands on the steering wheel (dash lights turned on if its at night), greet the officer and give him your info. When i get my chl i will tell the officers i have it even if i dont have my ccw on me at the time. Ive heard if they run your plates they can tell, and not disclosing you have a firearm when they know you might just causes unwanted tension. Last time i got pulled over was at one in the morning out in the middle of nowhere with my dealer plates on, the officer said he really appreciated me being so courtious especially with all the crazies and drunks out. As much of a hassle some people get from the police and the bad rep tv can give them, i got some real respect for those guys
Glummer, anyone can have an ND. All it takes is that one clumsy move, like when reloading after a traffic stop. It really is a good idea for Officer Friendly to hand you back your weapon in a manner that gives him time to be out of "oops" range. Then it's just between you and your floorboards.
My state doesn't require informing LEOs and I never have. They've never asked. My old car had one of the badge stickers they sell hereabouts to commemorate officers killed in the line of duty and collect charity funds, which are a nearly certain gunnie ID, and still the topic never came up in a traffic stop. Smile, make eye contact, keep it easy and all should go well. If your state requires you to ID yourself are a permittee and your carry status, do so. If it doesn't, don't.
My state doesn't require informing LEOs and I never have. They've never asked. My old car had one of the badge stickers they sell hereabouts to commemorate officers killed in the line of duty and collect charity funds, which are a nearly certain gunnie ID, and still the topic never came up in a traffic stop. Smile, make eye contact, keep it easy and all should go well. If your state requires you to ID yourself are a permittee and your carry status, do so. If it doesn't, don't.
bogie
Member
Has the membership been getting younger and more collegiate here lately?
gunsmith
member
last time
I handed my ccw and dl at the same time, the really nice cop took the gun and put it in his car. we got to talking and we both forgot he had my gun, he had to come back and find me
he had unloaded it and asked me to wait until he left to reload and apologized but hey...we both were talking about how much CA stinks and how free AZ is that I forgot to ask for the gun back and he forgot to write a ticket
we both left with a big grin on our faces
I handed my ccw and dl at the same time, the really nice cop took the gun and put it in his car. we got to talking and we both forgot he had my gun, he had to come back and find me
he had unloaded it and asked me to wait until he left to reload and apologized but hey...we both were talking about how much CA stinks and how free AZ is that I forgot to ask for the gun back and he forgot to write a ticket
we both left with a big grin on our faces
Roberta X
It seems to me the same line of argument works AGAINST unloading the gun in the 1st place, doesn’t it? Or even taking it. Are LEO’s immune to clumsiness?
Even an LEO.
Or unloading an unfamiliar gun, when it is not necessary.
But it's OK if I'm in "oops" range the whole time?
It seems to me the same line of argument works AGAINST unloading the gun in the 1st place, doesn’t it? Or even taking it. Are LEO’s immune to clumsiness?
ZeSpectre
Member
This thread's drifting a bit but to answer the OP's question...
(Keeping in mind that I haven't been an LEO for a number of years now)
This is the "best case" drill I used to teach my friends based on what was going to make me (as an officer) the most comfortable. Now I know some of you out there are thinking "who cares if you were comfortable" but let's briefly try to see the officer's perspective. He/she is moving into an unknown situation with unknown persons and there is no video-game "play-over" switch if things go south so a competent officer MUST be cautious, and yes suspicious, of the persons he/she is about to interact with. Usually you could strike a good balance between safety and courtesy and that was always the best scenario but I can tell you that I always planned on going home uninjured at the end of each shift so if it did somehow come down to a question of protecting myself or trying to avoid hurting your feelings I bet you can guess which choice I was going to make.
Anyway,
1) Stop your vehicle, put it in park, turn on your 4-way flashers, turn off the engine, Put your keys on the dashboard.
2) Advise any/all of your passengers to sit still and be quiet.
3) Turn off any radio or other noisy device. Turn on your interior lights and roll the window down enough for conversation but not all the way down (this means nobody can reach in and also means nobody can reach out).
4) EVERYONE keeps their hands in sight. Do not try to get out your wallet or anything else until the officer asks for it. It makes an officer uncomfortable if you are fumbling around with stuff as he/she approaches. Driver keep your hands at 12 o'clock on the steering wheel.
5) If your state requires you to notify the officer about a CHL or CCW do so in a calm manner. I suggest a phrase like "Sir, I wanted to let you know that I am a CCW permit holder and I am armed at the present time". (Don't say "hey man I got a gun"
). If your state doesn't require that you inform I wouldn't say anything UNLESS the officer asks you to step out of the vehicle.
6) If/when the officer requests your license and insurance THEN you can move to get such items.
Once the officer has your information things usually are much more relaxed and this is the point at which you can (if for example it's very cold out) ask if you may restart the vehicle to keep warm.
Be safe out there.
(Keeping in mind that I haven't been an LEO for a number of years now)
This is the "best case" drill I used to teach my friends based on what was going to make me (as an officer) the most comfortable. Now I know some of you out there are thinking "who cares if you were comfortable" but let's briefly try to see the officer's perspective. He/she is moving into an unknown situation with unknown persons and there is no video-game "play-over" switch if things go south so a competent officer MUST be cautious, and yes suspicious, of the persons he/she is about to interact with. Usually you could strike a good balance between safety and courtesy and that was always the best scenario but I can tell you that I always planned on going home uninjured at the end of each shift so if it did somehow come down to a question of protecting myself or trying to avoid hurting your feelings I bet you can guess which choice I was going to make.
Anyway,
1) Stop your vehicle, put it in park, turn on your 4-way flashers, turn off the engine, Put your keys on the dashboard.
2) Advise any/all of your passengers to sit still and be quiet.
3) Turn off any radio or other noisy device. Turn on your interior lights and roll the window down enough for conversation but not all the way down (this means nobody can reach in and also means nobody can reach out).
4) EVERYONE keeps their hands in sight. Do not try to get out your wallet or anything else until the officer asks for it. It makes an officer uncomfortable if you are fumbling around with stuff as he/she approaches. Driver keep your hands at 12 o'clock on the steering wheel.
5) If your state requires you to notify the officer about a CHL or CCW do so in a calm manner. I suggest a phrase like "Sir, I wanted to let you know that I am a CCW permit holder and I am armed at the present time". (Don't say "hey man I got a gun"
). If your state doesn't require that you inform I wouldn't say anything UNLESS the officer asks you to step out of the vehicle.6) If/when the officer requests your license and insurance THEN you can move to get such items.
Once the officer has your information things usually are much more relaxed and this is the point at which you can (if for example it's very cold out) ask if you may restart the vehicle to keep warm.
Be safe out there.
Sticking your hand with a gun in it out of the car window during a stop has got to be the dumbest, most Darwin Award winning idea I've ever heard.
If you think that's harsh. Too bad. Makes me wonder whether you have the common sense to be carrying a gun.
Why don't you check the laws in your state, or at least *ask* someone in authority in a law enforcement agency what the preferred, legal procedure is?
K
If you think that's harsh. Too bad. Makes me wonder whether you have the common sense to be carrying a gun.
Why don't you check the laws in your state, or at least *ask* someone in authority in a law enforcement agency what the preferred, legal procedure is?
K
308
I've been stopped once in OH with my gun locked in the GB, as per law. The stop went fine. I had pulled over into a parking lot, rolled window down, hands on the wheel, and informed the officer of CCW and location of gun as he approached. He was polite, professional, and appreciative of the way I handled it. Didn't ask to see the gun, or any other nonsense. Could he have legally been more of a prick? Yes, I'm sure he could have. But, then again, I look like a retired teacher and not a scruffy whatever with an attitude.
The officer told me that (and this was more than a year ago, could have changed) when the plates are run, it comes back flagged, but not for the specific reason. Could be outstanding warrants, etc. He has to go into it a few more screens to get the reason for the flag--CCW, in this case.
K
I've been stopped once in OH with my gun locked in the GB, as per law. The stop went fine. I had pulled over into a parking lot, rolled window down, hands on the wheel, and informed the officer of CCW and location of gun as he approached. He was polite, professional, and appreciative of the way I handled it. Didn't ask to see the gun, or any other nonsense. Could he have legally been more of a prick? Yes, I'm sure he could have. But, then again, I look like a retired teacher and not a scruffy whatever with an attitude.
The officer told me that (and this was more than a year ago, could have changed) when the plates are run, it comes back flagged, but not for the specific reason. Could be outstanding warrants, etc. He has to go into it a few more screens to get the reason for the flag--CCW, in this case.
K
I'm in the Air Force, and as a result do a lot of cross country driving to get home to Texas when I'm on leave. I keep a loaded weapon in the car while I'm driving and bollocs to the laws of the state I'm driving through since there is no national ccw that would allow me to carry in all states:banghead: , and since I'm not going to travel with my family across the country with no means to protect them. Anyway, I've been pulled over several times for speeding violations and such and in every case have told the officer matter-of-factly "I have a weapon in the vehicle." In no instance thus far have I been treated like a criminal (even though technically I AM in this situation.) Each time they have simply asked where it was, and then proceded to ask for my registration/insurance/license and proceed with the stop as usual. I'm not sure if I've just been lucky, or if LEOs are more rational than they are given credit for. Any thoughts?
since there is no national ccw that would allow me to carry in all states:banghead: , and since I'm not going to travel with my family across the country with no means to protect them. Anyway, I've been pulled over several times for speeding violations and such and in every case have told the officer matter-of-factly "I have a weapon in the vehicle." In no instance thus far have I been treated like a criminal (even though technically I AM in this situation.) Each time they have simply asked where it was, and then proceded to ask for my registration/insurance/license and proceed with the stop as usual. I'm not sure if I've just been lucky, or if LEOs are more rational than they are given credit for. Any thoughts?- Status
