Comp-Tac makes their kydex speedloader carriers for the Redhawk (Sku:10584; Size 5)
Speed Reloads & Cylinder Machining
- Thread starter D.B. Cooper
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D.B. Cooper
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...it’s already been mentioned that general technique is very important if one wants to run a revolver well
Yeah, I think, for me at least, that is the lesson of this discussion. Forget the stats. Forget the other competitors. Continually improve techniques and accuracy. As DaveT suggested, just focus on measurable and obtainable goals. Work towards breaking personal records. Because 64 out of 65 people are shooting autoloaders, I have no one to compete against but myself.
I always take special glee in beating most of the autoloaders in my squad at a match.
When I shot the WA State IDPA Match, a revolver shooter came in 4th overall out of 183 shooters
Just a comment on converting a revolver to accept moon clips. I've had a couple S&W J frames modified by TK Custom. They did a nice job and a quick turn around, less than two weeks if I remember correctly. They will modify a number of other revolvers so check with them on what they will do.
TK Custom's modification will still allow for shooting without moon clips for rimmed revolver cartridge guns.
Secondly, if you convert to moon clips get a BMT Equipped moon clip loader/de-loader. They are a bit pricey but you will appreciate them once you use them, especially if you are competing and shooting alot. Search on BMT Equipped to see their web site.
I have BMT Equipped moon clip loaders/de-loaders for J frame 38 Special, 45 ACP revolvers and S&W 986 9x19 revolvers.
TK Custom's modification will still allow for shooting without moon clips for rimmed revolver cartridge guns.
Secondly, if you convert to moon clips get a BMT Equipped moon clip loader/de-loader. They are a bit pricey but you will appreciate them once you use them, especially if you are competing and shooting alot. Search on BMT Equipped to see their web site.
I have BMT Equipped moon clip loaders/de-loaders for J frame 38 Special, 45 ACP revolvers and S&W 986 9x19 revolvers.
jmorris
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It is fun for sure. Lots of folks enjoy shooting revolvers but they don’t just because they are not competitive against bottom feeders.
Our club started “revolver friendly” matches every now and then to try and get some more folks out. Then I went a step further, with a month warning for a “revolver biased” match.
One stage started with your ammunition in mason jars, at the buzzer, load and shoot. No semiauto finished in the top ten.
Practical? Depends, but that wasn’t the point. Was a fun match and I think even the semiauto guys learned something while having fun,
mcb
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JMHO, but "revolver friendly" USPSA/IDPA is some of the worst matches I have shot. If you choose to shoot revolver its it's because you love the noble round gun despite its clear short comings compared to the bottom feeders. I personally find "revolver friendly" boring and unneeded. Shooting the round gun is all about seeing how far the underdog can rise. My current USPSA Production classification is based on scores all shot shooting my eight shot revolver (legally) in Production. Nothings better than beating the bottom feeders at their game. Most revolver shooters don't need or want concessions for their archaic equipment choice.
mcb
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I would argue that those shooters are not revolver shooters. The creation of a special revolver focused match was a novelty and they dug out an old revolver and played the special revolver game. If you continued those revolver focused matches they would relatively quickly go else where and return to their bottom feeder focused shooting. The revolver shooters that show up to the normal practical pistol matches are your "true" revolver shooters and they are rare and getting rarer. As a whole, in my experience, usually do not enjoy "revolver friendly" matches. The fact that ICORE is a small fraction the size of USPSA or IDPA sort of point to how few dedicated competitive revolver shooters there are left.
Again JMHO a practical pistol matches (USPSA/IDPA/outlaw/etc) should have a revolver division but it should never be "revolver friendly" or similarly "single-stack friendly", etc. It should be practical oriented and the equipment be damned.
jmorris
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You wouldn’t win that argument. The definition of a revolver or shooter isn’t a feeling but I understand where you are coming from.
The point of the matches were to get more people to shoot their revolvers in a match and it worked.
The reason the “true” revolver shooters are rare is in part because most simply don’t try it.
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D.B. Cooper
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What is 45 GAP? Is that like a 45 Auto Rim?
mcb
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45 GAP or 45 Glock Automatic Pistol is a relatively new cartridge. It is basically a shorter, small primer, higher pressure 45 ACP. It was designed to give you 45 ACP performance with a cartridge that was the same overall length as 9x19mm. 45 ACP has a case length of .898 and a SAAMI MAP of 21,000 psi. 45 GAP is .760 length case and a SAAMI MAP of 23,000 psi (the same as 45 ACP +P)
Shooting 45 GAP in a 45 ACP revolver is the same as shooing 38 Special in your 357 Mag or 40S&W in your 10mm or 44 Special in your 44 Mag.
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D.B. Cooper
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While I see some merit to your statement, I think this a can of worms, at least for me.
I just typed up, and then deleted, a two paragraph response, but then I realized it was just the standard auto vs revolver argument. At any rate, for my uses outside competition (which is what my true goal is here) the revolver, in my unique situation, is actually the better gun to have. But it's a very narrowly defined situation.
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D.B. Cooper
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YUP! Every week almost, someone asks me "Why the hell are you shooting that thing?" Or I get something like "Jesus a 44!? WTH? At least get a 38 or something." People really like the singe action trigger and the high capacity of an autoloader. I'm getting used tot he heavy trigger and almost always shoot double action, but I have to admit, it's a lot easier to miss than it looks, and that 16 rounds would come in handy.
mcb
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That statement was couch very much in the premise of practical pistol sports. I agree that in your primary use as a bear protection gun the 44 Magnum revolver is not at any disadvantage for that application. Only in the context of practical pistol sports.
Jim Watson
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The question always comes up, are you shooting matches for the score or to exercise your defensive weapon?
The OP is clearly in the second group and is giving up competitive refinement with his bear bumper.
I think practice and refined technique will be a big help and a couple hundred bucks for a moon clip conversion and a sack of clips will be some help. Doubt you will be reloading by any method with a bear sharing the alders with you.
The OP is clearly in the second group and is giving up competitive refinement with his bear bumper.
I think practice and refined technique will be a big help and a couple hundred bucks for a moon clip conversion and a sack of clips will be some help. Doubt you will be reloading by any method with a bear sharing the alders with you.
I agree we're getting a bit off topic*. One benefit of competition is that it's one of the best ways to 1) bring your overall competency up and 2) test your gear in a meaningful way in a somewhat stressful situation where time matters. Those who are new to competition and using their EDC gear are often amazed at how unreliable they, their gear, and their setup really is. to that end, it sounds like @D.B. Cooper is getting what he wants and needs out of these matches
.* I will add, though, that any nod to "revolver friendliness", is, IMHO, a nod to The Great Revolver Narrative I mentioned earlier. I did reasonably well in competition, and it was largely because I was too naive to think my gun of choice was even an issue. "Revolver friendly is a doube-edged sword, then - maybe these matches bring more revolvers, but IMO, it reinforces TGRN, and dedicated wheelgunners who buy into TGRN are just helping themselves hand the match to their competition.
WrongHanded
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I will preface by saying that I don't compete, now have I ever. And also that I am likely to be one of the least proficient shooters responding to this thread. So take this with a grain of salt.
Getting a range membership, a Redhawk, and beginning to reload, all coincided for me just over a year ago. I shoot at least once a week, and my Redhawk has seen more range time than any other gun I own. I can't say I shoot it every week, but I try to shoot it often and at times that has meant multiple trips per week. It's presented more of a challenge to me than any of my other guns (save for my SBH before I converted to a Bisley grip frame). Because of the design of the Rehawk (mainspring and trigger return spring are one and the same) I shoot it double action the majority of the time. I also shoot a mid level Magnum load (240gr LSWC and 20.0gr 2400, if anyone cares). It's taken time to get the double action trigger pull consistent, and I almost always shoot it at 25 yards (the range maximum). But the philosophy I adhear to is "You can't miss fast enough to catch up." The only advice I can offer, having gone through (still going through) the same learning curve on the same model of revolver, is practice slow and focus on precision of movement in all aspects for your gunwork.
One other thought - which may or may not be discredited by other with more experience than I - is something I remember came from Massad Ayoob. Which was to "roll" the trigger on a double action revolver. So I try to roll my trigger finger downwards as I press, rather than straight back. Maybe you already do this, but if not, perhaps it's worth trying.
thomas15
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mcb
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I think the thread is full of ways for the OP to improve. There has been a pretty good discussion talking about techniques, equipment, equipment upgrades the OP can use to improve his performance in his game and his preparedness for his primary use for his Redhawk. The OP now has to analyse all this information and decide which to integrate into his equipment setup and his training, and to ask more questions if he needs more info or clarifications.
thomas15
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Yes...
If it has taken you a year to get proficient with the DA revolver trigger then you are better than me. I'm just now getting it after 3 years of hard work. I truly envy you.
It is funny, I cannot describe my puny technique as a "roll" or anything like it, I just do it. Intellectually I desire to have a way to describe what I do but I can't. I can say that my finger is in to the 1st crease, my strong hand is as high as possible on the grip and my weak hand is as tight on the grip as I can get it. I can also say that my grip and trigger presentation on my revo is much different than on my pistols. But if I had to think about it then I'm wasting too much time. To me my grip/trigger technique is rather clumsy compared to a refined bullseye shooter. I grew up shooting competitive smallbore. Everything there is finesse and personal discipline. What I do now is not refined at all.
thomas15
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I'm not the measure of all things revolver. I do however know quite a few shooters that own revolvers and send lead down range once or twice a week. I probably shoot with and speak to 20 +/- different revolver shooters per month. Some of them are quite good, all of them shoot double action. My open 929 is DOA. I never shoot single action. I'm sure there are those who do it but I think it would take a lot of practice to keep on target at the same time pulling back the hammer and re-establishing the grip. Especially on a full size 44 magnum. At least I would think.
WrongHanded
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Oh, it's taken more than a year. My first handgun was a revolver, and I've always had them and preferred shooting them. I've also carried them quite a lot, though not currently. However, the Redhawk has a larger cylinder to move and a heavier DA pull than I'd been used to, so was not easy for me to shoot when I first got it. Not to mention dealing with the recoil, a problem all of its own.
Something else, which might not be good technique, but which has helped me: I grip hard with my dominant hand's pinky and ring finger. Like a vise. But use less pressure with my middle finger and thumb. This allows a firm grip with my shooting hand, without causing excessive tension in my trigger finger. I suspect the ability to isolated my grip tension in such a way may have come from experience rock climbing. But I wouldn't doubt anyone else could learn to do the same thing. Though there may be good reasons to avoid such a technique, and I'm just masking some other issue.
I then push my gun hand into my support hand, to create opposing pressure, and reinforce my grip with my support hand. Which I assume is pretty standard technique. All I know is that between these two things, and the "roll" on the trigger, all I'm fighting is my naturally shakiness, and my flinching (which is at times ridiculous...but also another topic).
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Guy B. Meredith
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Most competition shooters use moonclips. I find that the HKS fail to release rounds and gave up on them after much tooling around. After using my 627 PC V-comp with moonclips, my other revolvers got machined for the same. To qualify for IDPS I have Safariland speed loaders.
My carry is a 4" S&W M66 and three moonclips of ammo.
My carry is a 4" S&W M66 and three moonclips of ammo.
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