Spikes Tactical Pros/Cons?

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I assure you grant does just fine without Spikes.

Once again there are many companies over there that sponsor that are not talked well about. And a lot of Companies that don't sponsor that are liked.

It has nothing to do with "Pulling the line" and everything to do with researching the products I may purchase.

As for the documents he provided. Ask yourself this. Do you really think that he has never had a failed barrel? According to his posted documentation he hasn't. Tell me any company that doesn't have a failure in most batches.

They are called out on what they claim because they act so sneaking about it. They have a bad reputation and instead of being completely honest about turning it around they claimed to and then never showed any verifiable proof.

Companies like DD and BCM have put out good products from day one. They have been proven over time. Spikes is the exact opposite.

Why the defense of them? You seem to claim I am "pulling the line" and attacking them unfairly. But I haven't seen you show anything to back up your defense of them..

By the way. Some individuals have taken Spikes rifles and tested them. They didn't hold up to the claims Spikes makes.
 
"By the way. Some individuals have taken Spikes rifles and tested them. They didn't hold up to the claims Spikes makes."

Source?
 
That's what I thought. I have been researching this topic since last weekend. After reading thru a thread on M4C and seeing the response from both "trolls" and party faithful, I decided I wanted to get to the bottom of this. So after a few day reading several forums I have discovered one thing. No one can point to anybody who has had a failure of a rifle. Bad customer service experience, yes. Messed up orders, yes. This thread is the first time I read about a rifle failure and the CEO got him a new one in 48 hours. They are a company that is changing their product. There are making a rifle for around $100 less the BCM and several hundred less then the 3 other "top tier" makers.

I'm not just posting here cause I own a spikes upper. I'm posting here because their is a ton of "bad" information out there and NO PROOF. None. No one will post a thread or an experience. Several hundred posts about how great their rifles are, how they have been very happy with customer service. Hmmm....


BTW, Eotech is sold by wilson combat, midwest industries, ares armor... All M4C site sponsors... So there is one of your answers...
 
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Can't speak for other Spikes owners, but my Middy is worth every FEW dollars I paid for it. It goes bang every time I pull the trigger....Just speaking for myself...my 2 cents...Spikes is GTG in my humble opinion...
 
A couple quick thoughts. First, none of us will really know which rifles meet the TDP unless some truly independent person or agency decides to buy a representative sample (not just 1 of each - maybe 10) of various brands through normal commercial channels and tests them in all possible ways for specs. I see this happening sometime after people start living on Pluto.

So, you need to rely on reputation, or advertising, or forums like this one. What I get from all this is that Spike's is well liked by nearly all its owners - but many of them don't use their rifles very hard or really know that much. Some of them do, most notably the guy who runs http://vuurwapenblog.com/ . There are some endorsements of Spike's from people in the know.

But, there are far more endorsements of companies like BCM and DD from people in the know, including LE and MIL trainers, various private trainers, etc. What could this mean? Well, it probably means at the least that the endorsed brands are good to go. It doesn't necessarily mean a thing about Spike's however, since (1) endorsements often affect what a person uses, and (2) Spike's doesn't aim for or show up in the type of channels (e.g. large LE agencies) that the more established top companies are getting. So there may not be comparable data on Spike's to really decide anything about how they fare relative to the big boys.

You know what? I have a couple of premium ARs from premium brands, and they are great. I have a Spike's middy upper, and haven't found a thing wrong with it. I also have a Bushmaster and an Armalite, both of which are now apparently relegated to low-middle tier, and they, too, work fine. And I've run some of these pretty hard in competitions and practice for competition.

Where I come out - there are total junk brands that everyone should avoid (none of them are listed above). And, separately, there are brands that don't quite meet the TDP, but will be fine for 99% of purchasers. If you are really demanding, you probably already know which brands you need to shop, and it may well be one of the ones above any I've listed so far. Otherwise, just buy a rifle you like, and shoot it. You'll find out if it has any deficiencies, but chances are good it will do what you want and need. But, please, don't come here and claim your $800 rifle is the same as a $2500 rifle, without proof. It might be the same as a $1000 rifle, or not, but let's not get into Hyundai vs. Rolls Royce comparisons either.
 
Kwelz wrote:
I assure you grant does just fine without Spikes.
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That doesn't mean he has no axe to grind with Spikes. Grant makes his living selling premium priced AR's based on the TDP. The mantra at m4c is that if Grant says it is good to go, it's good to go. Enter an upstart company selling guns to the TDP for much cheaper than Grant and somehow you don't find Spikes to be competition? Sorry, but by any standard, Spikes is competition to Grant.

Kwelz wrote:
As for the documents he provided. Ask yourself this. Do you really think that he has never had a failed barrel? According to his posted documentation he hasn't. Tell me any company that doesn't have a failure in most batches.
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I have never seen a single certification from even one other competing manufacturer. Not one! That includes BCM, LMT, Noveske, and Daniel Defense. What would their certs say? After posting all his documentation openly, he would have to be a complete an utter idiot to lie on all of it, and the civil action taken against him for false claims would have broken him almost immediately. Let's see everyone elses certifications first, then we can debate this.

Kwelz wrote:
They are called out on what they claim because they act so sneaking about it. They have a bad reputation and instead of being completely honest about turning it around they claimed to and then never showed any verifiable proof.
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Right. Posting all their certificates online for everyone's inspection is very sneaky. Also, allowing any gun writer/forum surfer into their shop to inspect raw components and get a test gun (not hand picked by Spikes) is also very sneaky. See Rob S.'s article on Spikes for full details on this. You may remember, Rob is the one who created "The Chart".

Kwelz wrote:
Companies like DD and BCM have put out good products from day one. They have been proven over time. Spikes is the exact opposite.
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DD has been making rails for a long time. Not so much with the rifles. They have not been "proven over time". Spike's has also not been proven over time, but how does that make their rifles bad? I suppose DD and BCM made crappy rifles until they had been on the market "long enough to be proven"? You are claiming that Spike's makes a bad product because it is new. This is a bogus argument. They could make the best rifle on the planet for all you know, they just need time to be "proven" to be so. Your argument is pure conjecture and bias.

Kwelz wrote:
Why the defense of them?
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I read the entire saga of Spikes on M4C and I have never seen a company so vilified for no justifiable reason. It was petty, nasty and evident that Spike's could never win because nothing they did would ever be believed. Even after they met every demand for certifications and transparency, they are still vilified. For me, I like to see a new company shake things up and I tend to have a soft spot for the underdog. As to Tom being a jerk, the constant haranguing by Grant was worse. I will not only never buy from Grant, I will not recommend anyone else buy from him either. His wimping out after "testing" a Spikes and not publishing the results made him appear to be the sneaky one lying about all his claims.

Kwelz wrote:
By the way. Some individuals have taken Spikes rifles and tested them. They didn't hold up to the claims Spikes makes. Individuals who would prefer not to be named.
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This doesn't wash for obvious reasons. This is the lamest claim I have heard to date. This has less than zero credibility.

I would argue it this way: Spike's is the MOST transparent company making AR's today. You can check their facilities and their openly posted paperwork. They sell so many AR's that they can't keep up with demand, and yet, QC issues seem to be almost nill. In the lone QC issue I have seen posted online, the problem was corrected in days. A new upper shipped to the customer BEFORE shipping the old one back to Spikes. Unheard of customer service there. In all the Spikes rifles I have seen, quality has been excellent and the performance under heavy use has been without incident. To top it all off, they offer all this goodness at a price point lower than the competition. I would highly recommend them to anyone.
 
Z-Michigan said:
...please, don't come here and claim your $800 rifle is the same as a $2500 rifle, without proof. It might be the same as a $1000 rifle, or not, but let's not get into Hyundai vs. Rolls Royce comparisons either.
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This. is. the. real. bottom. line. Well put, Z. In my opinion regarding what's available, any standard AR over $1200 that is a base package, non-NFA, is over-priced. $2500 AR rifles are that much for more than being "standard".

The consolidated thread at m4c is one big fanboy vs. fanboy debate, with occasional bits of real info sprinkled in between.

Grant's constant demeaning of Tom, even after Grant acknowledged that they emailed back and forth as gentlemen and let the thing go, did not make Grant look like the hero he was trying to be. Rob, admittedly changed his tone after he toured their facility and tested their weapon product. This doesn't absolve Spike's or make the claim that they rank up with "top tiers", but it does settle the issue of whether or not Spike's delivers a viable product at the $800 price point.

I'm sure Grant, with all the board endorsements he gives/gets, has a great customer base, but if people on this thread really think that Spike's Tactical doesn't pose a threat to his target market, you are clearly mistaken. I really think Grant saw a company put out an $800 rifle that clearly rivaled his lowest price point (not $800, more like $1100 for complete system DD or BCM) and that irked him. DD, BCM, Noveske sell their own packages, they don't *need* Grant to do that for them but it's a good business relationship that works for Grant, but if a cheaper and possibly just as valuable product comes along that threatens his position as a distributor... this is where I see him calling foul and asking things of Spike's that no other company has been asked to prove in a public forum. I would have put more stock into Grant's problem with ST, if BCM, DD, or Noveske were directly involved in demanding Spikes to "prove it." It was a war of semantics vs. "as close to TDP as possible" and "we followed the TDP". No one has proven whether or not BCM, DD, or Noveske even have the TDP, or have provided publicly the certs to imply that they stick "as close as they can" to it. I am compelled to believe BCM, however.

I read the entire consolidated thread at M4C.net, and honestly, it was ridiculously unfair to Spike's with the whole certs thing. Every company recommended instead of Spike's were not held to certs, or had their certs provided by Grant, or other fans of said companies to strengthen their arguments. Yeah, Grant did no one a favor by not revealing his findings especially after displaying so much passion in the debate. A company that lies has no business being left hidden, he should have nailed that coffin.

In the interest of full disclosure, I will be/am a Spike's rifle owner. However, my knowledge of the platform, no knowledge of the TDP, and all the other technical jargon do not qualify me to speak directly to Spike's workmanship. I spent the day with a Spike's rifle and shot the hell out of it, took it apart, and using various guides available here, and on Google, inspected the internals to find what should be obvious in determining at the least a well put together rifle. It more than satisfies the forum consensus regarding properly built internals (staking keys/castle nut, marks, shrouded firing pin, etc.). I took Rob Sloyer's conclusion about Spike's being the best rifle available at $800, and for my budget, and peace of mind made an informed purchase.

All in all, I think Tom and ST needed to grow up a little bit and I think the way they've been doing things recently is a positive outcome from this whole internet debacle/disaster/disastacle that happened at M4C... almost 3 years ago.
 
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^^^ Great post John. Threads like this one would have been locked and buried on M4C. It is unfortunate, because there is a wealth of knowledge on that site.
 
My only experience with Spikes Tactical was 100% positive: I helped a friend assemble a semi auto m4 style rifle on a ST lower. The fit and finish on the Spikes Lower (when compared visually side by side) was the same as my LMT, BCM and Essential Arms and slightly nicer (cosmetically) than a Colt.

Functionally there have been no issues with that ST carbine in just over 2,500 rounds of mixed steel and brass cased ammo.


Colt has the name and reputation for quality and rightfully charges for it.

BCM (my favorite) has a well earned reputation for quality amongst AR users but not the pedegree of Colt. So, you pay a bit less for BCM than for Colt for an identical (arguably cosmetically nicer) product.

Spikes is the relative new comer to top tier ARs. They are using transparency, good CS (in my experience), and low price to gain market share and establish their reputation.

If you are buying a rifle to shoot and use hard, my advice is buy the Spikes!

If you are concerned with future value the Colt will serve you better in that respect.
 
My spikes is shipping today. I don't really care about the complaints about Spikes. I believe this rifle will meet all my needs and/or the abuse I give it.

If it meets my needs, I will be silent, if it doesn't meet my needs I will whine on the internet. After all, that is what the internet is for :neener:
 
Good thread! I've been eyeing up a BCM midlength, but you can't buy what's not available. Thinking about a Spikes now... so I'm grateful for the info.
 
goon, check out AIM Surplus for Spikes stuff. They have stuff in stock. When you order from Spikes there is a wait for them to build it if they don't have it in stock. 6-12 weeks sometimes. With AIM, if they have it in stock they ship it out same day. I bought mine direct from Spikes and had about a 9 week wait for my upper.
 
My suggestions:

If you want Spike's, AIM is the A+ place to buy from. Good prices and free shipping.

If you want BCM, check out G&R Tactical before you decide to get something else because of delays or being out of stock.

If you want a Daniel Defense, check out Smartgunner at the link above for uppers and parts, and check out AIM or Bud's Gun Shop for complete rifles.
 
I've been to the shop twice and bought two rifles from them. I needed to make a pice point and something I can shoot in competitions - not a GM but I need something that runs. All I know is that they have been great running. I especially like them because they made availble to me a rifle for my kid last Xmas (13 at the time) when they were way back-logged. I dealt with a person who helped me make something important happen. My next upper will come from them (when they catch up with the orders!)

Being nobody special they bent over backwards and thats what customers remember.
 
I just wanted to say that my Spikes upper (for my first ever AR [semi-]build) is on the way and will be delivered Thursday! I can't wait!

All politics and flaming aside, every review I ever read (or watched) of Spikes on various sites (here, Firing line, etc.) was quite positive. That, along with the more reasonable price (compared to what others are charging) and the lifetime warranty helped me make my decision.
 
Spikes is supposedly making a pretty good rifle now. I have heandled a few and they looked good, but I dont have any real time on one. I would own one for sporting useage but I dont quite trust them yet for serious social work.

But they still dont have the reputation of the battle proven rifles such as the Colt, LMT, Daniel Defense and KAC. Many people and agencies are leery of spending big bucks on an unproven rifle when there are so many quality rifles out there already.

My agency found this out a couple years ago when they spent 100k on a bunch of Bushmaster rifles instead of waiting on the usual Colts and is regretting it now because of the constant problems.

As far as Colt pricing... If you spend more than $1150 on a 6920 you havent looked very hard. A few months ago I bought my new 6920 for $1120 at a local shop. Colts prices are a little higher than others, but you also have to realize where their plants are and look at how much more they spend on taxes and salaries than some of the other companies.
 
"Colts prices are a little higher than others, but you also have to realize where their plants are and look at how much more they spend on taxes and salaries than some of the other companies."

Not that I am doubting you, but do you have any knowledge of where Spikes are built? How is it different taxes or salaries than Colt? I'm just asking.
 
In response to the people saying the M4/M16 is a substandard rifle..... I would like to know your operation experience with one and how it has let you down? What AO were you in? What were the conditions and firing schedule? When was the last time it was properly inspected by the unit armorer?

In my experience the M4/M16 family of weapons has been a fantastic rifle and served my fellow Soldiers and Marines and I very well. I never saw any significant proplems in combat with them. My brother in law who was a Marine grunt in Fallujah never saw any problems with theirs either. I also have never met a Soldier or Marine who had significant problems with their rifle outside of overused magazines in need of replacing.
 
chad1043 said:
"Colts prices are a little higher than others, but you also have to realize where their plants are and look at how much more they spend on taxes and salaries than some of the other companies."

Not that I am doubting you, but do you have any knowledge of where Spikes are built? How is it different taxes or salaries than Colt? I'm just asking.
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I believe Spikes is built somewhere in the South, Im not sure really. But they are a much smaller company than Colt. But It's well known that Conneticut rapes Colt with fees and taxes and Colt's union is well payed.
 
Can't speak for other Spikes owners
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Mine has been doing pretty well also. I didn't go into it expecting a $2500 gun, I went into it expecting an $800 gun and I have not been disappointed in the least.

I believe Spikes is built somewhere in the South
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Apoka FL I believe. It's slightly north of Orlando (?). Either way, I'm sure that their labor costs are significantly less than that of Colt.
 
C-grunt said:
If you spend more than $1150 on a 6920 you havent looked very hard. A few months ago I bought my new 6920 for $1120 at a local shop. Colts prices are a little higher than others, but you also have to realize where their plants are and look at how much more they spend on taxes and salaries than some of the other companies.
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Exactly, I just added another Colt to my gun locker, a 6940 for $1350,00, a weapon that just a year previous was being listed at close to $2,000,00....
 
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