'splain me the fnh and 5.7x28

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dakotasin

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was at the local gun emporium today and saw a gun and caliber i've never seen before... a fnh chambered in 5.7x28... counterjockey tells me this is the exact gun that our military and swat teams and such are going to... says he, its more effective than 9mm...

ok, i'm no fan of the 9mm, but somehow, that barrel looked awfully tiny. i asked him if it was like a 22 or 25 - and he say's 'yeah'.

well, neither the 22 or 25 impress me much, either.

still, the gun featured a $900 price tag... and it was all plastic - from the top of the slide to the bottom of the frame. hmm...

so... i'm not sure what i saw today. can someone tell me what an 'fnh' is, and why the 5.7x28 is so great??

i don't mind picking the gun up, and when i asked for ammo, they were out... and w/ no dies, brass, bullets, or data, i elected to wait...
 
The cartridge was developed along with a figure 8-shaped weapon. Imagine a figure 8, about foot tall, lying on its side. With one hand you grip the top of the 8, and with the other you grip the middle and shoot it like that, It was sort of a cross between a pistol and a carbine. (Disrespectful people called it a "pisbine.") ;)

The idea was to produce a personal defense weapon that would shoot through soft body armor for rear-echelon troops.

Later they brought it out in a pistol.

It ain't all that different from the .17 HMR ballistically, and isn't quite as powerful as the .22 Hornet.
 
Interesting little gun. It was designed to fire a bullet that would defeat most body armor. Very little felt recoil, light, 20 round magazine. It has a rather breathtakingly bad PR problem on its hands...
FiveseveN
I don't want to start a caliber war, but when all is said and done, it is a tiny bullet. It may be useful in a niche market, can't see the military going for it.
 
i think i read somewher that the 5.7 bullet when fired from the military cartridge can penetrate something like 47 layers of kevlar... of course that is probably marketing hype.
 
The FNH stands for fabrique nationale hershel. The weapon you saw is an FN Five seven. You can read about it here . Look to the Five Seven link under small arms.
 
so, is the only real advantage to this weapon over bigger calibers (say, like 40, or 9mm) is its kevlar penetrattion abilities?

i didn't see anything on those links about energy levels... and not enough on terminal performance (one source says it tumbles and fragments on impact - and if it does that, how does it go thru layer after layer of kevlar?).

basically, i am looking for almost any lame excuse to go buy this thing, but so far what i'm seeing just isn't enough to push me over... need more info!

thanks for the links, btw...

and, what's the bad pr stuff about?
 
If your gun counter jockey claims that it tumbles and fragments on impact then he is nuts. The only way that a bullet can penetrate Kevlar or ceramics it to absolutely maintain its integrity. If it breaks up on impact its energy is dissipated into the material, leaving the target alive with a bruise.

The bad PR problem is that the gun was designed and marketed from the start for its ability to penetrate body armor. This has caused the bliss ninnies to retire to their fainting couches. The gun does take a medium pistol sized case with its ability to pack enough gun powder for a medium sized bullet. But then they necked the case down to accept a .22 sized bullet. That means it is fast. Its armor penetrating ability is the bullet's smaller diameter, speed and hardness of its tip.
 
ahh, there's excuse enough: blissninnies and fainting! lol!

so... does this cartridge accept regular .224" bullets, or is it something proprietary and goofy? meaning, can i just load hornady 55 grain v-max's for play, and scary bullets for s&g's?

i need to know more about the bullets themselves...
 
From FN Herstal http://www.fnherstal.com/html/5728.htm :

The SS190 provides a virtually flat trajectory up to 200 meters, does not deform or fragment on impact, and the projectile’s tumbling action ensures a very high probability of incapacitation.

The SS190 ammunition transfers nearly all of its energy to the target on impact, thus minimizing over-penetration and greatly reducing collateral risks to friendly / non-combattants.

In contrast, a 9 mm round loses only 30% of its energy on the primary target and often causes unintended damage, well beyond the area of engagement.

While a 9 mm FMJ round will not penetrate modern body armor, the SS190 round will penetrate modern fragmentation vests and helmets at ranges up to 200 meters.

Any presently available soft body armor that allows reasonable mobility will be penetrated : military and other body armors, Kevlar® helmets and vests as well as the CRISAT protection (titanium/Kevlar®).

The SS190 round will NOT penetrate protections that stop the 5.56 x 45 mm round ( steel plates, ceramic,...)


http://www.fnherstal.com/html/5728.htm

So it is an effective round, small size is as one can carry more ammo (FiveseveN is a 20 rounder PDW yet lighter than most 9mm full sizes). Small round also means small recoil and thus faster and more accurate shooting.

Also if you have more questions, then look around in the FN forum http://fivesevenforum.com/

Anyway this weapon is most reccomended for concealed carry if you can afford the ammo.
 
Dakotasin, I think you'll like the ability to nail stuff way past the range of a .22Lr using a handgun. If armor piercing is your thing then you've found a better slingshot. All that said, why is that gun so freakin ugly? The trigger guard alone is like something designed by AMC! The reloading question is probably well put as I would have to wonder how saleable this cartridge is with Bliss bunnies fainting all over it!
 
I read an article in a gun mag about the 5.7 and they said that the Secret Service and the San Antonio (i think) swat use the 5.7 carbine. the swat team reported taking down a BG with one shot to the chest. how reliable this info is i cant say but a pistol shooting high velocity rounds is pretty cool.
 
armor piercing vs fragmentation

The way I heard it, both stories are true, by the simple expediant of loading different bullets. Supposedly the armor piercing type bullets will not be available to us mere mortals.
 
so... does this cartridge accept regular .224" bullets, or is it something proprietary and goofy? meaning, can i just load hornady 55 grain v-max's for play, and scary bullets for s&g's?
Click to expand...
As I understand it, yes, it does use .224" bullets. A co-worker brought in one of his rounds (the scawwwy SS190) and I measured the bullet with a caliper and it came out right at .224". Note, however, that the really fast SS190 uses a light 27gr bullet. If you load up 55gr Vmax's expect a corresponding drop in velocity.
 
SG1 shoots down flying saucers and cuts down trees with that round.

I would like a P90 but not with the long barrel for civilians. Why, because!

I also would like for Major Carter to train me in its use. :rolleyes:
 
574.jpg

I dunno, looks pretty effective to me. People compare the 5.7x28mm to the .22mag, but forget that the 5.7mm round is coming out of a pistol barrel at 2200fps and not a rifle barrel.

In the P90 that round comes out at 2700fps. Damn near what M193 does out of a 14.5" barrel.
 
Rob1035,

Read around on The Five-seveN Forum and you will find what you're looking for. The ammunition section has a thread with ballistics tables I've compiled for the 5.7x28mm rounds out of the Five-seveN pistol, P-90 SMG, and the civilian-legal PS-90. Hope this helps.

C-grunt, is there any possibility you could dig up more info on that shooting you heard of, or is the gun magazine long gone? I'm very interested. Was the shooting with Houston PD? I ask this because Houston also had a shooting with the P-90 so I am wondering if maybe the shooting you heard of was with HPD or if it was another seperate shooting.

-DmL
 
Basic idea is an AR-series rifle in pistol form. Shoots as easy as a .22 rimfire, but has the ballistics of an Army rifle (well, sort of).
I haven't seen the stats on it, but it appears other countries are copying the idea.
Both China and Russia are issuing pistols that fire a light, fast, armour-penetrating round.
I for one would love to have a Walther P22 that fired rounds as powerful as an M-16. :) Of course, this is FN, so I guess its technically a Buck Mark. ;)
-David
 
Usage?

Forget the military and social occasion usage for a minute. If this were in a self loader with a six inch barrel, good sights and trigger, and some pretension to accuracy, it'd make a very good small game number.
 
Cool gun, the local range has one for rent. Now the ammo, well thats a diffrent story. Every place I have looked its on back order, and the local range had one tiny box for sale. Neat gun, but not really pratical.
 
Its basically a handgun with 22 mag rifle ballistics. Nothing special. It has about the same energy of a 9mm standard pressure 115 grain load. About 340 or so. It accurate and has low recoil. I think it would have more applications as a small game trail gun than as a tactical pistol. Its stopping power capabilitys are hottly debated. Personally I would not trust it and would rather have a 9mm or 45 acp.
Pat
 
dunno, looks pretty effective to me. People compare the 5.7x28mm to the .22mag, but forget that the 5.7mm round is coming out of a pistol barrel at 2200fps and not a rifle barrel.

In the P90 that round comes out at 2700fps. Damn near what M193 does out of a 14.5" barrel.

END QUOTE

You have to remember the bullet for the P90 weighs only 20 grains. Its energy figures have far more in common with a 9x19 subgun than a 5.56 assault rifle. The P90 was made for back line support personal to replace the pistol. Its a modern M1 carbine.
Pat
 
355sigfan,

The 5.7 bullets range from 28 grains to 40 grains. None of them are 20 grains, although the old SS-90 prototype was 23 grains. Check out the ballistics tables HERE for up-to-date charts.

-DmL
 
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