Sport Pistol and .40 S&W

[Dudedog]

Getting blind I can't see little marks on primers, I just use different color sharpies to do the base of the case, <$10 for a 8 pack of different color wide tip ones at Wally World,
Walkalong is using the precision rifleman approach and just hitting the center, since I can't hit the center I just go for the shotgun buckshot approach with the sharpies

 

[Walkalong]

My guess is the 4.5gr. SP ones will be really soft.

Oh yea!

I wanted to start at powder puff levels, and these are both definitely that. (These are both below minimum charge weights.) I almost used 4.4 Grs N320 and after shooting/chronoing them I should have, if not 4.5 Grs.

Next step up I will go with equal charges of both Sport Pistol & N320.

I used my makeshift rest/support to help alleviate the heavy trigger of the FNS-40. It's not a bad trigger, let off and over travel (Or the lack thereof actually) are both good, it's just not a light target trigger. It is a very good combat/self defense trigger IMHO. I need to dry fire the snot out of it. One utuber cut 3 or 4 coils off of the striker spring. I would not do that, but 1 or 2 might help without sacrificing dependability. Dunno though. Apex is promising a trigger upgrade kit in the near future.

I loaded ten rounds of each and the first thing I did was shoot four rounds (2 of each alternating in the mag) at the 35 yard berm. I hit where I was aiming and the N320 load had a slightly less/quicker recoil level/feel to it. That was verified by the numbers later.

I shot the Sport Pistol load first and managed a nice enough group. I shot the N320 load second (With the new target stapled over the first one) and had a great one going before I made it bigger. The one up high was where my makeshift rest shifted (Need to make a lock nut for the wiggly shaft), so it wasn't the fault of the gun or the load, just me.


Load # 54 - 4.5 Grs Sport Pistol - 8 shots (I forgot to write Sport Pistol on the target so I added it with Paint) (The one left and the one down are surely me)



Load #55 - 4.3 Grs N320 (The one up is where my rest shifted on me when the shot went off) (Had a tighter group going after 4 rounds *Sigh* )
The one low left is likely me. I forgot to write N320 on the target and mistakenly wrote 54 again instead of 55, so I fixed it in paint. Getting in a hurry never helps.


Here is the first target which was under the second one when I shot the N320 group. All 16 rounds are on this one. Those hash marks are exactly 1" apart.


The FNS-40 shoots a little low if you even up the tops of the front and back sights and level them with the horizontal bar on the target so they are all on the same plane, which is how I do it.

If someone is looking for a powder puff load in .40, this is surely light/soft with virtually no recoil. The brass just tumbled out of the gun and landed on the plastic picnic table. Some rolled off and I still managed to lose one case. Was missing two when I took the pic of the brass, but found # 19 after that.

Neither powder gave good ES & SD numbers at this low pressure level. More powder will help that. And, as noted by myself and ray15 earlier in the thread, a coated or lead bullet would have better ES & SD numbers. I need to order some coated 155s to try. I have a couple hundred of these Rainers left over from my first .40 S&W and .400 Corbon loads.

Both loads also scorched the cases pretty good due to the low pressure.


The large ES & SD numbers won't matter up close, but at 50 or 100 yards they would hurt your ability to hit targets consistently, especially small ones.

 

[Walkalong]

4" FNS-40 - 92 Degrees - 53% RH

Ranier 155 Gr TrFP - 1.130 OAL - S&B SPP

4.5 Grs Sport Pistol
Hi=813
Lo=708
Avg=764
ES=105
SD=40

4.3 Grs N320
Hi=771
Lo=669
Avg=713
ES=102
SD=39

 

[Walkalong]

I forgot to add that Sport Pistol settled down and started throwing consistent charges faster than N320. It also metered a hair better. Both meter very well. The Sport Pistol threw charges form 4.48 to 4.50 after it settled down, and the N320 threw charges from 4.26 to 4.30. That was for about 10 charges (After they had settled down). If I had continued to throw more charges the spread would have likely increased a hair. It usually does if you throw enough. Still a .02 and a .04 spread for 10+ throws is pretty danged good IMHO. +/- .01 & +/- .02 Grs. (Hundredths, not tenths)

Both are stick powders, and the diameters are very similar, but the "sticks" of Sport Pistol are much shorter, more like small discs, and could easily be mistaken for flake if one did not check closely. At least that is what it appears to be.

Another thing I like about Sport Pistol is, like the Vihtavuori pistol powders, not only does it meter very well, it empties out of the measure very easily, no sticking to everything because of static. (The new powder IMR Target suffers from that.)

They are going to sell a lot of this stuff.

 

[Walkalong]

Ready for tomorrow.


Again the N320 took longer to settle down, but when it did it for ten throws it did from 4.66 to 4.72 (Target of 4.7 Grs). The Sport Pistol did from 4.68 to 5.72 (Target of 4.7 Grs)

As one would expect with the difference in kernel size, the N320 is bulkier. For 4.7 Grs Sport Pistol took 19.3 on my 10X measure while N320 took 23.3 on my 10X measure.

I should think that these two loads would make minor, but not major, power factor. We'll see.

 

[Walkalong]

As an afterthought I loaded up 10 9MM rounds with 3.9 Grs of Sport Pistol, a S&B primer, and an X-Treme 124 gr plated HP @ 1.060 OAL. 3.9 grs of N320 and a plated 124 Gr bullet @ 1.060 OAL has long been a favorite plinker load for me. WSP and Fed 100 primers for some time, then CCI 500 primers. All of them gave 1050ish from a 5" barrel and the brass ejected just to the right of me right by my feet. Then I tried the S&B primers with it and loaded 500 without testing first. Turns out they are slightly milder and occasionally a fired case would get caught in my Colt 1911's ejection port.(*Sigh*) I either need to stick with WSP, Fed 100 & CCI 500 primers, or bump it up to 4.0 with S&B primers. Wouldn't hurt to go to 4.0 period really.

So, since I have plenty of my N320 3.9 Gr plinker load with S&B primers, I loaded the 3.9 gr Sport Pistol load with S&B primers as well. I'll shoot them back to back tomorrow after testing the .40 loads. After I loaded the ten and put everything away, it dawned on me that I should have loaded more and shot them in more than one barrel length. (Such as 3", 4.5", and 5".) Another day I guess.

 

[Walkalong]

4.7 Grs of N320 and Sport Pistol with the Ranier 155 gr TrFP & S&B primers did not make minor like I thought they might, will need to bump it up some more.

4.7 Grs of Sport Pistol shot a decent group. I ended up getting too much vertical which is likely me and the heavy trigger, but it tried hard to shoot very well.


4.7 Grs of N320 shot horribly, definitely not all me, it just simply shot poorly. Have no idea about the high one.


Both loads still had big ES & SD numbers and scorched the brass from low pressure.

 

[Walkalong]

I ordered 500 SNS 140 gr coated TrFP bullets last week. I also ordered 250 Berrys 155 Gr HBRN plated bullets, but they won't be here until Thursday. I wanted to order some Berrys 155 Gr HBTrFP, but decided not to spend the money this pay period.

4.7 Grs Sport Pistol and the SNS 140 Gr TrFP. S&B SP primer. 1.130 +/- OAL. These are going to be light. I also loaded 15 of the Ranier 155 Gr TrFP Load #54 (Shot earlier in the thread) to shoot against to see how recoil compares.

 

[markr6754]

I’m loving this thread...it was a roundabout route...but you led me right to the motherload. I’m trying to develop soft 9mm loads so my wife will accept shooting my Micro 9. I’ve also been pondering starting to load 40 S&W, have everything in hand, just having enough struggle loading 380, 9, and 45. Nonetheless, I have N320 and have been trying it in everything I shoot. I like HP-38 as well, and believe it will produce some nice soft loads with 124gr Berry’s. Need to give it a try, as well the 40s. I have 92FS, a Kahr CM-9, and the Micro 9 to test in. The only 40 is my son’s PX4 Storm. If I can develop softies I may have to buy it off him...he wants the new APX.

 

[Walkalong]

Shot the Ranier 155s again today, plus some Berrys 155 Gr HBRN, as well as the SNS coated 140 gr TrFP. The Berrys shot well, but the backer was all warped and the bullets were tearing the paper. (Gonna bump it up .1 or .2 and try them again.) I stapled the heck out of the next target to hold it against the rained on/abused/warped/shot up backer (Forgot to put some new cardboard in the FJ again) and shot the SNS bullets. All of these still have large ES & SD numbers and scorch the cases, very light. But cases clean up and accuracy at up to at least 25 yards was good to very good.



The shot low right was me, I was pulling the sights back onto the crosshair target and broke the trigger before they got there. The other two felt OK. There are seven in the group. I shot it two hands unsupported, as my little bag came apart last time out. I suspect the group would end up including the two out if I shot enough rounds. Looks like I pulled most of them about the same amount.

SNS coated TrFP - 4.7 grs Sport Pistol - S&B primer - 1.133 +/- OAL 97 degrees 26% RH. (Yea, it's been hot this week, the last gasp of summer)



Hi=820
Lo=755
Avg=775
ES=65
SD=19

 

[LiveLife]

Thank you for the range reports, especially with lighter than 180/165 gr bullets.

 

[ATLDave]

Yeah, this is valuable information for people trying to load 40 minor, or make really soft shooting 40 rounds to get use out of a gun that they (or maybe a friend or family member) finds too "snappy" with standard-power ammo.

 

[Walkalong]

I shot some more of the Berrys 155 Gr HBRN bullets with Sport Pistol today after work. I forgot the targets and had to improvise.

4.6 Grs Sport Pistol. Berrys 155 Gr HBRN @ 1.133 +/- .002. S&B SPP primer. 4" FNS-40

Hi=861
Lo=772
Avg=809
ES=89
SD=25

Shot a nice group, as good as I can with the FNS-40 and its "Combat/self defense trigger. Nice, but not light and group shooting friendly. My best with it at 7 yards when shooting through the chrono at 5 yards is 1" to 1 1/2". I shot a 10 shot group and 6 of them were under an inch, with the others opening it up to a solid 1 1/2". The I shot some clay pigeons at the 30 yard berm, some misses, some hits.


I also shot the Berrys with 4.0 Grs on N310. They ran a hair faster, but overall recoil was a bit less with a quicker recoil impulse. Shot a very similar but slightly tighter group, with 7 in and three out.

4.0 Grs N310. Berrys 155 Gr HBRN @ 1.133 +/- .002. S&B SPP primer. 4" FNS-40

Hi=854
Lo=801
Avg=827
ES=53
SD=14

Both loads left the brass much cleaner than the light loads I first tried. Primers look well rounded, brass just did get out of the gun and landed at my feet ready to pick up.

 

[vaalpens]

Walkalong, thanks again for sharing your .40 s&w load data. You inspired me to try a few loads with Sport Pistol and some 155gr pulled FMJ FP bullets I bought a while ago.

My loads shot well with no feeding issues. The aim of the test was to get some baseline velocity numbers, and also see how accurate they were. I wasn't expecting very good accuracy or SD/ES numbers since these are pulled bullets, and I can feel (on a single stage) when I seat them that there is a difference in neck tension. Hopefully these numbers I saw will at least add to what you have already shared.

Please note that testing was done at 15 yards using a rest and a scope that was not zeroed. These are pulled bullets.

40SW, P229, 3.9"
Case: RP
COL: 1.125"
ARPulled, 155gr, FMJRNFP, SportPistol, 5.1gr, SBPRSP
Average: 900
ES: 38
SD: 14.7
Force: 279
PF: 139
Velocities: 907, 892, 905, 917, 879
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.93"
Test Date: 09/27/2018



40SW, P229, 3.9"
Case: RP
COL: 1.125"
ARPulled, 155gr, FMJRNFP, SportPistol, 5.2gr, SBPRSP
Average: 923
ES: 39
SD: 14.3
Force: 293
PF: 143
Velocities: 946, 922, 917, 907, 923
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.17"
Test Date: 09/27/2018



40SW, P229, 3.9"
Case: RP
COL: 1.125"
ARPulled, 155gr, FMJRNFP, SportPistol, 5.3gr, SBPRSP
Average: 931
ES: 15
SD: 5.8
Force: 298
PF: 144
Velocities: 933, 923, 929, 935, 938
Grouping @ 15yd: 1"
Test Date: 09/27/2018

40SW, P229, 3.9"
Case: RP
COL: 1.125"
ARPulled, 155gr, FMJRNFP, SportPistol, 5.4gr, SBPRSP
Average: 942
ES: 27
SD: 10.9
Force: 305
PF: 146
Velocities: 934, 928, 955, 948, 945
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.56"
Test Date: 09/27/2018

40SW, P229, 3.9"
Case: RP
COL: 1.125"
ARPulled, 155gr, FMJRNFP, SportPistol, 5.5gr, SBPRSP
Average: 964
ES: 28
SD: 10.9
Force: 320
PF: 149
Velocities: 972, 961, 976, 948, 966
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.2"
Test Date: 09/27/2018

40SW, P229, 3.9"
Case: RP
COL: 1.125"
ARPulled, 155gr, FMJRNFP, SportPistol, 5.6gr, SBPRSP
Average: 979
ES: 41
SD: 18.1
Force: 330
PF: 151
Velocities: 956, 987, 997, 964, 992
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.56"
Test Date: 09/27/2018

 

[Walkalong]

More good data, thanks. At 5.6 Grs, is it getting "snappy"?

 

[vaalpens]

More good data, thanks. At 5.6 Grs, is it getting "snappy"?

It did not feel snappy to me, but the P229 normally feels tame unless I start pushing the velocity. What I will do next time is compare it to some other loads I have in .40 to try and quantify the difference in feel. I would think it will feel snappier than my BE-86 loads, but I will compare them next time.