W-244

[Walkalong]

I got out and shot the rounds today. Nice weather, a little overcast. Not a steady day for me and rushing to beat losing sunlight didn't help.



9MM (Load #122)
RMR 124 Gr Match Winner jacketed TrFP
4.0 Grs W-244
CCI 500 Primer
1.073 to 1.075 OAL (Flat seater stem)
61 Degrees 27% RH

4.5" XDm
Hi=1109
Lo=1096
Avg=1104
ES=13
SD=4

5" Colt 1911
Hi=1122
Lo=1089
Avg=1109
ES=33
SD=11

I usually see a larger difference in velocities between these two guns.

Both groups were poor overall, but my fault. Both groups had a main hole slightly larger than 9MM with four rounds through it, but also had four hanging out. All me, but when I had the dot in the right place and didn't jerk the trigger they went where they should. No surprise with this bullet, as it shoots very well. If you can't get the RMR 124 Gr TrFP "Match Winner" to shoot, it isn't the bullet.

A bit fast for a light plinker load, as I look for 1050ish for that. I would try 3.8 next time.



.45 Colt (Load #56) 6" S&W 25-5 (Slow barrel)
Missouri Bullet Cowboy #9 255 Gr SWC 12 BHN
7.2 Grs W-244
WLP Primer
1.600 to 1.605 OAL
61 Degrees 27% RH

Powder Back
Hi=813
Lo=774
Avg=795
ES=39
SD=13

Powder Forward
Hi=767
Lo=735
Avg=755
ES=32
SD=13

Powder Level
Hi=778
Lo=735
Avg=755
ES=43
SD=15

Powder Back and Level numbers were very good with little lose of velocity, but then lead and coated lead always do better than plated. Still a very good sign though.

It shot very well IMO, 15 of the 18 shots were in a good group, a group that would have been better if I had been steadier. I made a note to try 7.3 Grs.



5" Colt Series 80 Enhanced 1911
.45 ACP (Load #196)
Precision coated 200 Gr SWC
5.2 Grs W-244
CCI 300 Primer
1.260 to 1.265 OAL
61 Degrees 27% RH

Hi=882
Lo=813
Avg=848
ES=69
SD=23

Shot poorly, too fast for a light target load which is what I have these for. Should have tried more like 4.8 Grs.

.45 ACP (Load #197)
Zero 230 Gr JHP
5.2 Grs W-244
CCI 300 Primer
1.245 +/- OAL
61 Degrees 27% RH

Hi=836
Lo=809
Avg=820
ES=27
SD=9

I shot a very nice group, despite my wobble. It did well enough with good enough numbers to merit loading up a quantity of them to test more thoroughly.


Overall W-244 looks promising, and certainly worth a try if one is looking for something in the W-231ish burn rate.

It was more of a pain to clean out of the powder measure than some powders, a lot like IMR target, which also clings to the plastic hopper. It won't beat out N320 or Sport Pistol for me.

 

[Tony k]

Excellent report. Those all seem promising. Lot of new powders coming out the past few years that seem very appealing. This is the first I've heard W244. Keep us posted.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thank you very much for the report Walkalong, as usual it's a great help to everyone who loads.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Some low SD's in some of those loads!

 

[kcofohio]

Thanks for your report. Looks promising. Personally, with no facts to back me up, I think HP-38/W231 days are numbered. Nice to know that they'll have a decent replacement in the lineup.

 

[k4swb]

I appreciate this.

 

[vaalpens]

Thanks for sharing your test results.

9MM (Load #122)
RMR 124 Gr Match Winner jacketed TrFP
4.0 Grs W-244
CCI 500 Primer
1.073 to 1.075 OAL (Flat seater stem)
61 Degrees 27% RH

4.5" XDm
Hi=1109
Lo=1096
Avg=1104
ES=13
SD=4

Interesting to see the difference in velocity between your 4.5" XDm and my 3.9" SP2022. The COL I used is even lower than what you have. Does .6" longer barrel make that big a difference?

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: HRTRS
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 4gr, CCI500
Average: 989
ES: 23
SD: 10.5
Velocities: 978, 978, 996, 1001, 992

.45 ACP (Load #197)
Zero 230 Gr JHP
5.2 Grs W-244
CCI 300 Primer
1.245 +/- OAL
61 Degrees 27% RH

Hi=836
Lo=809
Avg=820
ES=27
SD=9

There is also a big difference in velocity in 45ACP. What gun did you test with? There is not much difference between the COL's, but I would think RN bullet is probaly seated deeper.

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.250"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, W244, 5.2gr, CCI300
Average: 746
ES: 31
SD: 12.3
Velocities: 732, 737, 752, 763, 746

This big difference in velocity is a bit of a head scratcher for me. What model chrono are you using and at what distance? I have the Competition Electronic Prochrono, normally at 12ft.

 

[Walkalong]

I have the Competition Electronic Prochrono, normally at 12ft.

Me too, set at 5 yards. There were some shadows, so that may have affected the numbers a little. I never take 6, 7, or 8 round samples as gospel. Do that six times in a row with the same ammo gun and it will come up with six different sets of numbers, close, but different.

Interesting to see the difference in velocity between your 4.5" XDm and my 3.9" SP2022. The COL I used is even lower than what you have.

I usually see more like a 45 to 60ish difference in that 4.5 XDm and the 5" 1911, instead of the small number this time.

There is also a big difference in velocity in 45ACP. What gun did you test with?

A 5" Colt Series 80 Enhanced 1911 with a match barrel installed by a very competent gunsmith before I owned it. I was not surprised at all the same charge pushed a lighter slicker coated bullet faster in .45 ACP than a heavier jacketed one. I measured the Zeros at .646 long and the Precision was .641, so pretty much a wash there and the Zero was seated deeper.

Trying to guess why another persons gun with another persons reloads is faster or slower is a waste of brainpower IMHO. At least if we worry about it much.

 

[vaalpens]

I measured the Zeros at .646 long

The RMR 230gr FMJRN is around .664" (+.018"). With your COL at -.005", it seems that mine were seated about .013" deeper.

Trying to guess why another persons gun with another persons reloads is faster or slower is a waste of brainpower IMHO. At least if we worry about it much.

I'm not too concerned about why my reloads are faster or slower, but it would be nice maybe one day to validate my chrono. I think most of us only has one chrono, so you hope the readings are reasonably correct. In some sense I do rely on the chrono velocity numbers to make sure I don't exceed published load data, unless I am pushing the envelope.

 

[Walkalong]

I think most of us only has one chrono, so you hope the readings are reasonably correct. In some sense I do rely on the chrono velocity numbers to make sure I don't exceed published load data, unless I am pushing the envelope.

Yes, they are a nice tool and can help us stay safer, but they can lie sometimes, and anytime we do a small sample we know it isn't the end all be all. I take all my chrono readings with a grain of salt.

That said, when loads get chroned more than once and the numbers keep coming up very similar, it's a good sign, especially when months apart. If I try a powder to see how it does in a big case powder forward and I get good results, I always do it again to see if it will repeat. If it does well three or four times out, it is easier to believe it and bank on it.

 

[GW Staar]

Fun and interesting stuff you get to do. I'm not shooting much this time of year, so I'm jealous. I have to tell you, that I've copied this thread to a Word File for reference....very good of you to deliver such info.....saves a lot of time not having to repeat what you've already tried. I've been interested in seeing what this W244 can do. So many powders.....so little time left.

Have you always used a Pro Chrono? If not, what else have you used, and how does the Pro Chrono compare to the others you've had?

 

[Walkalong]

Always have had a Pro Chrono. Shot the first one, got a second one. Then I learned they would fix them for a nominal fee. Oh well. Have never owned a different one or two at at time. I don't expect definitive/bet the bank answers from it.

 

[vaalpens]

Walkalong, Where do you think W244 fits in regarding burn rate?

With all the discussion about chrono accuracy, I'm not sure I can trust all my assumptions based on chrono data, but following is an overview of how it compares with other/similar powders. I bracketed a W244 load range based on load data and a burn rate supposedly slower than HP-38. Based on my chrono data it seems W244 could be faster than HP38, well at least in 45 ACP.

 

[lordpaxman]

Thanks for the information Walkalong, it's good to see others confirming W244 "works".

If you can't get the RMR 124 Gr TrFP "Match Winner" to shoot, it isn't the bullet.

Help me Obi Wan, then what is it!!!

P226 (9 shots, Labradar)
124gr RMR FPMW, 4.1gr W244, 1.120 COL, Vel Avg 1030, ES 31, SD 10
124gr RMR FPMW, 4.2gr W244, 1.120 COL, Vel Avg 1066, ES 23, SD 08
145gr BBRN(.357), 3.3gr W244, 1.120 COL, Vel Avg 889, ES 39, SD 12
147gr RMR FPMW, 3.4gr W244, 1.120 COL, Vel Avg 867, ES 26, SD 08

P220 (5 shot)
200gr BBSWC, 5.4gr W244, 1.245 COL, Vel Avg 838, ES 35, SD 14
230gr Plated, 5.3gr W244, 1.230 COL, Vel Avg 795, ES 26, SD 11

686 (6" 6 shots)
138gr BBBNWC, 4.2gr W244, 1.260 COL, Vel Avg 952, ES 21, SD 07
158gr BBSWC, 3.8gr W244, 1.455 COL, Vel Avg 759, ES 67, SD 23

You guys sure like a short COL! The P226 allows 1.175 for the 124gr RMR FPMW, but I load for several guns so I chose 1.120 for the lowest common denominator. For what reason(S) do you have such a short COL?

Based on my chrono data it seems W244 could be faster than HP38, well at least in 45 ACP.

My comparisons also show for an equivalent grain weight, the W244 has a higher velocity, but is that burn rate or energy density?

My qualitative notes on the shoots indicate recoil, cleanliness, smoke, and fireball are all in the good to very good range. It meters well but as pointed out, doesn't dump as well as SP but can be brushed out.

Always have had a Pro Chrono. Shot the first one, got a second one.

Before I got the Labradar, I had the Pro Chrono with Bluetooth. I made a boo boo plate for it, just so I wouldn't shoot it. I think we're all in the same boat - glad to have a chrono of some kind, but question it's accuracy and precision. I purchased a 350 pack of Blazer 115 9mm and call that my calibration ammo. At the start of each session I shoot 5 and compare to prior calibrations.

 

[GW Staar]

Always have had a Pro Chrono. Shot the first one, got a second one. Then I learned they would fix them for a nominal fee. Oh well. Have never owned a different one or two at at time. I don't expect definitive/bet the bank answers from it.

Maybe not definitive.....for sure it provides a benchmark to compare to itself and other powders in YOUR firearms and between your firearms. I think that's the real value anyway.

 

[Walkalong]

I purchased a 350 pack of Blazer 115 9mm and call that my calibration ammo.

But do you trust it?

I shoot 5 and compare to prior calibrations.

Good idea.

Maybe not definitive.....for sure it provides a benchmark to compare to itself and other powders in YOUR firearms and between your firearms. I think that's the real value anyway.

I fully agree.

 

[Walkalong]

is that burn rate or energy density?

Very good question. I certainly have not shot enough W-244 to say if it is "slower" or "faster" than W-231. Some side by side loads with new W-231 would be good. All of mine is from old 3 Lb metal cans.

 

[Walkalong]

I do have a recent favorite in .40 S&W with W-231 and a coated 180 Gr TrFP, I could load some of both using the same 5.0 Gr charge weight.

I shall do that, sort out some .40 brass and load say 15 of each exactly the same except for the powder.

 

[Walkalong]

I do have a recent favorite in .40 S&W with W-231 and a coated 180 Gr TrFP,

Which is.....

Date : 8-18
Temp : 90 Degrees 49% RH
Conditions : Sunny

Trimmed : N/A Primer : S&B Cartridge OAL : 1.130 +/- .002 *
Powder : W-231 From 3 Lb Can Weight : 5.0 Grs Bushing / Setting : 18.9 - 10X by GP250
Bullet : SNS Coated Bullet Weight : 180 Gr FP Type / Dia. / OAL : TrFP - .4005 / .630+/-

3.85" Baby Eagle
HI 953
LO 931
AVG 937
ES 22
SD 6

"Shot very well to great. Nice short mild recoil impulse compared to Load # 50
below. Primers look great. Hit a hair low at 7 yards, a hair high at 40 yards"

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The misunderstanding with burn rate charts is they are not absolute, they are relative. Powders will burn at different rates in different cartridges. It does seem W244 is slightly slower than W231 but looking at the data for the .38 Special, 9mm and 45 Auto the charge weights don't always prove that to be true. Some charge weights are higher than with W231 and some lower. Hodgdon lists their data with the slowest powders first so they feel W244 is slower than W231 because W244 is listed before W231 with all their data even though the charge weights contradict that.

 

[Iron Sight]

Walkalong

What do you mean "Powder Level"
Thanx

Powder Level
Hi=778
Lo=735
Avg=755
ES=43
SD=15

 

[Walkalong]

Hold the firearm level, shake the barrel back and forth sideways a little to settle the powder along the bottom of the case, vs powder back where I hold the barrel up to get the powder back against the primer and ease the barrel down to keep as much there as I can, then shoot, vs powder forward where I hold the barrel down and ease it up to level keeping as much forward away from the powder as I can.

 

[Iron Sight]

Interesting. Maybe provide something on top of the powder to keep it back at the primer??

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Interesting. Maybe provide something on top of the powder to keep it back at the primer??

No necessary and a time consuming extra step IMO. If the powder you are using is that position sensitive choose a different powder, especially since there are so many new and "better" powders out there today.

When there were only a few powder available to handloaders it was important to know how a powder would react to temperature and position, especially when competing. Today there are dozens of powders available to us and many were specifically designed to be less temp and position sensitive. Some even have a copper prevention agent added too.

I think it's great Hodgdon under the IMR and Winchester banners have brought out over a half dozen new handgun powders and even a new line of rifle powders under the IMR Enduron line. This is fun...

 

[Walkalong]

Despite the forecast, we have some nice weather today.

75 Degrees 64% RH. Too dang hot for February. Hopefully we will have some more cool weather before spring gets here for real.

Took these two 9MM loads straight from the Hodgdon online data.

9MM: Fired in a 4.5" XDm. 9 Shots each (Only had 18 left)

Berrys 124 Gr HBRN-TP loaded to 1.150 +/- OAL. CCI 500 Primer

4.5 Grs W-244.

HI = 1139
LO = 1115
AVG = 1130
ES = 24
SD = 7

4.4 Grs W-231.

HI = 1084
LO = 1073
AVG = 1077
ES = 11
SD =4

.40 S&W: Fired in a 4.5" FNS-40. 10 Shots each.

SNS coated 180 Gr TrFP loaded to 1.133 +/- OAL. Fed 100 Primer

5.0 Grs W-244.

HI = 989
LO = 953
AVG = 971
ES = 36
SD = 11

5.0 Grs W-231.

HI = 951
LO = 927
AVG = 941
ES = 24
SD = 8

.45 ACP: Fired in a 5" Colt Series 80 1911. 10 Shots each.

Precision coated 200 Gr SWC loaded to 1.160 to 1.165 OAL. WLP Primer

4.8 Grs W-244.

HI = 828
LO = 756
AVG = 786
ES = 72
SD = 18

4.8 Grs W-231.

HI = 779
LO = 718
AVG = 750
ES = 61
SD = 18

.45 ACP: Fired in a 5" Colt Series 80 1911. 10 Shots each.

Zero 230 gr JHP loaded to 1.145 +/- OAL. WLP Primer

5.3 Grs W-244.

HI = 853
LO = 713
AVG = 828
ES = 40
SD = 14

5.3 Grs W-231.

HI = 813
LO = 757
AVG = 786
ES = 56
SD = 16

The two 9MM loads shot well enough, but nothing special, despite using an XDm OSP with a red dot. Plenty in a group in the center of each target, but too many hanging out that I didn't think was me or the pistol. Both are too fast for a 124 Gr plinker, especially 4.5 Grs W-244. Back it off to 4.2 & try. Back W-231 off to 4.3 and try.

Hodgdon said 1131 FPS for 4.5 Grs of W-244 and I got 1130 FPS.
Hodgdon said 1037 FPS for 4.4 Grs of W-231 and I got 1077 FPS.

The SNS coated 180 gr TrFP (They call it a Flat Point) in .40 shot well as usual and both powders shot pretty well.

The Precision coated 200 Gr SWC in .45 ACP shot very well, as it usually does, but was still a bit fast for a light plinker/target load.

The Zero 230 gr JHP load with W-244 is a winner. The same bullet with W-231 needs a tad more powder to be full power IMHO.

W-244 gives a little more velocity for the same charge weight. More Nitro content? A bit faster? Dunno.
W-244 id denser. Not a plus for me, but not a big negative.
W-244 tends to throw a high weight charge every once in a while. Such as...4.52, 4.48, 4.45, 4.53, bingo 4.62. Still meters well and shoots well, but will throw a high one here and there. Also tends not to do it at some meter settings. I have sen this with other powders before, meters superb at some settings and less so at others. weird. Any one else ever notice that? Not a big deal, just throwing it out there.
W-244 takes a hair less powder. Not good, not bad, just is.
W-244 seems to shoot as well as W-231, and it would take more testing to call one more accurate than the other.
W-244 is worth a try for anyone who likes W-231 and can't get it, or is worried it will be phased out, etc. Others are too, such as the also new Sport Pistol, just saying W-244 is worth a try.


One of the .40 Loads, don't remember which. - 10 rounds FNS-40. Two hanging out you can't see.


The Zero 230 gr & 5.3 Grs of W-244 Load - 10 rounds. Used a very accurate Colt with a red dot. It's too easy.