Springfield Emmisary .45 squid with unburned powder

[justplainbob]

Good morning.
I have a Springfield Emmisary that is giving me troubles. Using mixed brass with a 200 grain RN bullet, 147 grains of BE and CCI SPP. About every other range trip I get a squid with a slightly dented primer and unburnt powder spilling out of chamber and brass when I am able to get action open. Bullet is in the chamber. This is my first 1911. Love the 1911 platform, not loving the squibs so much.
Any ideas from you more experienced reloaders would be most welcome.

 

[koz4guns]

How much Bullseye?

You say that you think you have squib rounds, but to me what you’re describing sounds like your reloads may be too long jamming the bullet into the rifling and not allowing the round to chamber fully.

What are the particulars of your reloads, bullet manufacturer and cartridge OAL?

 

[Riomouse911]

Could you check the load weight numbers again, I think they’re off.

COL issue? Not crimped enough to fully seat and allow for a good burn? Do they plunk ok? Is factory ammo 100% reliable?

Gunk in the firing pin channel inhibiting it from moving freely, etc.? Did you do a cleaning/lube on the gun after the first issue?

Could be simple things like these.

Stay safe.

 

[Jim Watson]

Show pictures.
I am so far agreeing with koz, you are loading too long, the bullet is jamming into the throat, propping the action open and sapping the force out of the firing pin strike. Yanking it open is pulling the bullet.
Another "feature" is light strikes by the "safe" titanium firing pin.

 

[1KPerDay]

Are the primers igniting? Or do you just get a click?

 

[CQB45ACP]

How long have you been reloading?

How long have you been loading 45acp?

Check your OP for typos.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

147 grains of what, Bullseye? I'm surprised your gun didn't grenade.

 

[RikSors]

Get this. Saves a lot of headaches.

Also serves as the “clunk test”.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012687515?pid=744135

 

[justplainbob]

I have been chamber checking all my .45 rounds with the actual Emissary barrel, but granted I am thinking now that it is likely I missed one. Am using Missourri bullets. My OAL is 1.270, the same as the factory rounds I have.
Have been reloading for about 8 years, mainly .40 and 9 mm. This is my first foray into .45. Not sure if my rounds are too long at 1.270, but I think Koz is right, the lead just jammed into the rifling. The primer did not go off, just a click. Factory rounds have worked fine.

 

[1KPerDay]

I'm betting 1.27" is too long. Push your "chamber checked" rounds into the chamber firmly with your thumb, and see if they drop out. Do your bullets have any lip near the case mouth? Are they SWC or RNFP from Missouri?

Primers not going off is not a squib, FYI. It's a failure to fire, and may be caused by a few things. You may actually not be fully in battery due to a too-long OAL and the firing pin isn't getting struck fully. Since you're ostensibly yanking the stuck-into-the-lands bullets out of their cases and spilling powder I'll bet you a donut that's what's going on. Try seating some to 1.25 and do a good firm plunk test.

 

[koz4guns]

The more you reload the more you will find that every gun and chamber is different.

One load will work fine in one chamber but maybe not for the next, I always try and load for my tightest chamber then they will work in everything.

Not sure of your powder charge but if it is mid range or lower I would just try shortening the OAL and try that.

 

[ballman6711]

I have a Springfield Emmisary that is giving me troubles

About every other range trip I get a squid with a slightly dented primer and unburnt powder spilling out of chamber and brass when I am able to get action open

I have been chamber checking all my .45 rounds with the actual Emissary barrel, but granted I am thinking now that it is likely I missed one

I don't want to sound like a butthead (but I'm probably going to), I think you "missed" more than one.

Your reloaded round may not plunk at the same length that your factory round does. Mine didn't. I had to shorten my COAL by about .010 from the factory rounds I was comparing to. You may have to go a bit shorter than I did.

I would suggest seating the rounds a bit deeper, and reducing your powder charge a bit as well.

chris

 

[higgite]

Using mixed brass with a 200 grain RN bullet, 147 grains of BE and CCI SPP.

I’m curious as to how you got 147 grains of BE in a 45ACP case, let alone seating a bullet on top of it. We just went through a thread full of typos. Is this another one?

 

[CQB45ACP]

I shoot three 45acp 1911s and use 1.260” OAL most frequently even though 1.270 is often suggested. I think SAAMI max is 1.275”.

My pistols like 1.250-1.260 the best. Just the way it is. Yours might be that way too.

I use Bullseye a lot but not with your bullets, only 230RN & 200SWC. I only use published data and off hand thinks it’s mostly between 4.0&5.0gr.

I know what factory lengths are and know the same should work in your own loads. I also know sometimes they don’t

Good luck

 

[243winxb]

COL- The bullets ogive should be just above the case mouth.

The loose powder comes from bullets sticking in the rifling, when extracting.

Range brass has different neck tensions. To loose & you get spilled powder.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have been chamber checking all my .45 rounds with the actual Emissary barrel, but granted I am thinking now that it is likely I missed one. Am using Missourri bullets. My OAL is 1.270, the same as the factory rounds I have.
Have been reloading for about 8 years, mainly .40 and 9 mm. This is my first foray into .45. Not sure if my rounds are too long at 1.270, but I think Koz is right, the lead just jammed into the rifling. The primer did not go off, just a click. Factory rounds have worked fine.

Man, are you lucky!

a slightly dented primer and unburnt powder spilling out of chamber and brass when I am able to get action open. Bullet is in the chamber

That’s a kaboom waiting to happen.

 

[Walkalong]

I don't load anything in .45 ACP longer than 1.265. I load various 200/230 Gr RN bullets to fall between 1.260 & 1.265 OAL.


The only way to get in serious trouble in an auto with sane charges, is to have a squib, think
the barrel is clear, and shoot another round, so be careful, make sure the barrel is clear after
any anomaly like what you experienced.

Make sure the primers are seated all the way t the bottom of the primer pockets, seat them hard,
you won't hurt them.

An old post of mine on primer seating.

"Primers need to be seated until the anvil legs touch the bottom of the primer pocket (Minimum), and then a little more so the cup pushes down around the legs, up until it hits the bottom of the primer pocket (Maximum).

If seated to little (Anvil legs not touching the bottom of the primer pocket), the firing pin has to seat it fully and then have enough energy left over to crush the priming compound between the cup and the anvil. Sometimes it does not, these are the ones that so often fire on the second try. The first try seats them fully, the second try fires them.

bds has some great primer pics here somewhere that shows the cup and anvil and how they are positioned with each other prior to seating. The anvil legs are sticking out of the cup just a little bit.

After fully seating the anvil's legs and the primer cup is hard against the bottom of the pocket, it takes a great deal of pressure at this point to damage the primer so much it fails.

It is fairly easy to seat a primer too soft, not fully seating it, so that it misfires, but difficult to seat them so hard it damages them to the point of not firing. This statement is based on my decades of seating primers with various tools. I have never had one fail from being seated to hard/deep. Not saying that with some primer tools and some gorilla grips it can't be done, but it is 100/1000 times less likely to happen than seating one too shallow/soft.

We have threads here all the time when failures to fire end up being primers seated too softly/shallow. I can't remember one where it turned out someone managed to crush a primer into submission. I would suggest to all to try it. Some priming systems simply cannot do it for mechanical reasons. Some might have enough travel to do it if you have the strength, That cup surrounded by the brass primer pocket is tough to crush. Very tough"

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...primers-before-shooting.832434/#post-10757047

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The only way to get in serious trouble in an auto with sane charges, is to have a squib, think
the barrel is clear, and shoot another round, so be careful, make sure the barrel is clear after
any anomaly like what you experienced.

I don’t know. I think an oob ignition is pretty bad - at the least it would be not good.

 

[.38 Special]

I'll show myself out.

 

[lordpaxman]

Any ideas from you more experienced reloaders would be most welcome.

I have been chamber checking all my .45 rounds with the actual Emissary barrel, but granted I am thinking now that it is likely I missed one. Am using Missourri bullets. My OAL is 1.270, the same as the factory rounds I have.

That’s not a bad idea, but how did you come up with the COL of 1.270” to begin with? Along with with everyone else has suggested, there’s a thread that instructs you on the “plunk” test to determine MAX COL, and from there you can determine your working COL. Unless it’s the same bullet as the factory round, you should really measure.
I’m 100% certain it isn’t 147 grains of BE, would love to know how much really.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

View attachment 1153069

I'll show myself out.

I think you owe the current and former Navy personnel an apology.

 

[Walkalong]

I don’t know. I think an oob ignition is pretty bad - at the least it would be not good.

But that doesn’t isn’t load related.

 

[MEHavey]

Make sure the primers are seated all the way t the bottom of the primer pockets, seat them hard,

^^^^ THIS+1 ^^^^

Primer not going off on reloaded rounds -- while they do on factory -- make me think:
- Primer not fully seated -- OR --
- Primer (CCI) too hard for the mainspring

The other thing may be that an overly long OAL is leaving the cartridge w/ a slight lead "cushion" that 'gives' slightly when the firing pin hits the primer.

First things first...
1. Seat primer solidly
2. Plunk Test to make sure case is making hard headspacing contact on its mouth

.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I don't load anything in .45 ACP longer than 1.265. I load various 200/230 Gr RN bullets to fall between 1.260 & 1.265 OAL.
View attachment 1153058

The only way to get in serious trouble in an auto with sane charges, is to have a squib, think
the barrel is clear, and shoot another round, so be careful, make sure the barrel is clear after
any anomaly like what you experienced.

Make sure the primers are seated all the way t the bottom of the primer pockets, seat them hard,
you won't hurt them.

An old post of mine on primer seating.

"Primers need to be seated until the anvil legs touch the bottom of the primer pocket (Minimum), and then a little more so the cup pushes down around the legs, up until it hits the bottom of the primer pocket (Maximum).

If seated to little (Anvil legs not touching the bottom of the primer pocket), the firing pin has to seat it fully and then have enough energy left over to crush the priming compound between the cup and the anvil. Sometimes it does not, these are the ones that so often fire on the second try. The first try seats them fully, the second try fires them.

bds has some great primer pics here somewhere that shows the cup and anvil and how they are positioned with each other prior to seating. The anvil legs are sticking out of the cup just a little bit.

After fully seating the anvil's legs and the primer cup is hard against the bottom of the pocket, it takes a great deal of pressure at this point to damage the primer so much it fails.

It is fairly easy to seat a primer too soft, not fully seating it, so that it misfires, but difficult to seat them so hard it damages them to the point of not firing. This statement is based on my decades of seating primers with various tools. I have never had one fail from being seated to hard/deep. Not saying that with some primer tools and some gorilla grips it can't be done, but it is 100/1000 times less likely to happen than seating one too shallow/soft.

We have threads here all the time when failures to fire end up being primers seated too softly/shallow. I can't remember one where it turned out someone managed to crush a primer into submission. I would suggest to all to try it. Some priming systems simply cannot do it for mechanical reasons. Some might have enough travel to do it if you have the strength, That cup surrounded by the brass primer pocket is tough to crush. Very tough"

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...primers-before-shooting.832434/#post-10757047

I’m curious about squibs in a semiauto pistol—how could they have enough power/force to cycle the slide and chamber another round if they can’t push the last one out the barrel?

 

[Walkalong]

I’m curious about squibs in a semiauto pistol—how could they have enough power/force to cycle the slide and chamber another round if they can’t push the last one out the barrel?

They usually don’t, we go …huh….and rack the slide.

Y’all be careful out there.