Square Deal B vs XL-750 for new reloader

[TacticalJanitor]

So, it's sorta sounding like it's reasonable to expect 200 rounds an hour with a SDB, and 400 with a 750+case feeder (after setup, and assuming I don't screw anything up).

That's a big difference to me. I'm leaning towards the 750 right now.

 

[Mark_Mark]

So, it's sorta sounding like it's reasonable to expect 200 rounds an hour with a SDB, and 400 with a 750+case feeder (after setup, and assuming I don't screw anything up).

That's a big difference to me. I'm leaning towards the 750 right now.

the SDB, if you get fast… and coordinate both hands fluidly… I can do 1 rounds in 5 seconds

 

[Yankee1986]

If you have the coin, get the 750 with casefeeder, then start buying toolheads, dies,conversion kits & powder dispensers for each caliber you need. GOING TO BE PRICEY!
However, you will not be disappointed nor will you have to become some sort of ninja to run the amount of ammo you need on your new press.
I would make a wish list of everything and start looking for some of it on gun forums.
Availability problems on some stuff will probably happen too.
Keep in mind there are a lot of good aftermarket companys making quality compatible stuff for 750.
This thread lists a few different places for upgrades.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/dillon-xl-750-upgrades.915836/

 

[cfullgraf]

Ah, this is why I ask my silly questions! It would have never occurred to me that a tall case would be harder to eyeball on a SDB. Let's say you screw down one of your SDBs, check the powder and primers, then get to loading. How many can you realistically get loaded in an hour (while keeping an eye on things and taking no chances...kinda like a new guy would have to do)?

First, the only silly or dumb question is the one not asked.

I can load cartridges on the SDB as fast as I load them on my other progressive presses (Hornady L-N-L, RCBS Pro2000, Dillon BL550). But, I do not use a case feeder.I resize cases at and clean the cases at one time. At a later time, I prime off the press, then charge the case and seat the bullet.

It may seem counter productive in terms of production rates but it eliminates jams and other production issues that cause downtime. It makes it easier to run the process as for each phase you have less to watch and insure things are progressing properly.

Without case feeders, I load 300-400 cartridges per hour even with breaking it up into two phases not counting the time to clean the cases.

I use a Hornady powder cop die to check my powder drops on my presses that use 7/8”-14 dies. This is not an option on the SDB since it uses proprietary dies and only has four stations. Checking the powder cop die with each pull of the handle needs to part of you scan of the process.

Actually, I do most of case resizing, decapping, and mouth expanding on the Hornady L-N-L. I reloaded on a single stage press for decades so when I made the move to progressives, I already had dies for most cartridges.

I’m a tool junkie so I like to different presses. I’ve found I like different presses for different cartridges like rifle vs handgun. Mostly an idiosyncrasy on my part and all presses will load virtually all cartridges.

One last point, another poster mentioned it would be better to start with a single stage press. This is really a good idea. You learn the reloading ropes working one step at a time. Besides, if you get into reloading seriously, a single stage press is handy to have on hand. There several reloading tasks where only a single stage press will accomplish.

I hope this helps.

 

[TacticalJanitor]

First, the only silly or dumb question is the one not asked.

I can load cartridges on the SDB as fast as I load them on my other progressive presses (Hornady L-N-L, RCBS Pro2000, Dillon BL550). But, I do not use a case feeder.I resize cases at and clean the cases at one time. At a later time, I prime off the press, then charge the case and seat the bullet.

It may seem counter productive in terms of production rates but it eliminates jams and other production issues that cause downtime. It makes it easier to run the process as for each phase you have less to watch and insure things are progressing properly.

Without case feeders, I load 300-400 cartridges per hour even with breaking it up into two phases not counting the time to clean the cases.

I use a Hornady powder cop die to check my powder drops on my presses that use 7/8”-14 dies. This is not an option on the SDB since it uses proprietary dies and only has four stations. Checking the powder cop die with each pull of the handle needs to part of you scan of the process.

Actually, I do most of case resizing, decapping, and mouth expanding on the Hornady L-N-L. I reloaded on a single stage press for decades so when I made the move to progressives, I already had dies for most cartridges.

I’m a tool junkie so I like to different presses. I’ve found I like different presses for different cartridges like rifle vs handgun. Mostly an idiosyncrasy on my part and all presses will load virtually all cartridges.

One last point, another poster mentioned it would be better to start with a single stage press. This is really a good idea. You learn the reloading ropes working one step at a time. Besides, if you get into reloading seriously, a single stage press is handy to have on hand. There several reloading tasks where only a single stage press will accomplish.

I hope this helps.

Oh yes. Lotsa help!

You bring up other things I've been considering. I've read that a press stays much cleaner if one de-primes before cleaning shells. Honestly, it seems like that would be a chore...but so would cleaning a press in the middle of a run because it's sticking (or whatever).

Perhaps the best place for me to start is to buy a single-stage press with a universal decapping die and a large vibratory cleaner. There must be 20K rounds of brass in the shop that I need to start processing.

Then again, perhaps my first purchase should be an automatic decapper? They are really spendy IMO.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Oh yes. Lotsa help!

You bring up other things I've been considering. I've read that a press stays much cleaner if one de-primes before cleaning shells. Honestly, it seems like that would be a chore...but so would cleaning a press in the middle of a run because it's sticking (or whatever).

Perhaps the best place for me to start is to buy a single-stage press with a universal decapping die and a large vibratory cleaner. There must be 20K rounds of brass in the shop that I need to start processing.

Then again, perhaps my first purchase should be an automatic decapper? They are really spendy IMO.

Get a Lee APP press with a case feeder! you can decap 20k brass in no time

 

[TacticalJanitor]

Get a Lee APP press with a case feeder! you can decap 20k brass in no time

Now that's pretty cool. I had no idea such a thing existed. I'll do a bit of research to find out if it would work with the Dillon case feeder.

 

[bihj]

I read that a 550 doesn't have room for a powder check and bullet feeder. To be fair, I haven't spent much time reading up on the 550.

You think the Square Deal has room for a powder check or a bullet feed?

 

[Shak3s1977]

A single stage and a decapping die will save you lots of grief no matter what press you buy. One of the biggest things with any progressive press is to keep the primer area clean. If decapping and tumbling before, it will cut down on a lot of problems.

I have 2 550s and a sdb. Realistically I can do 400-500 rounds on my 550s. Once your in a groove it's pretty easy.

My sdb is probably 300-400 a hour. It's smaller space does slow me down, but it's nice to not worry about double charges with its auto indexing.

I would have a 750 but I honestly don't load that much in one sitting. My weekend might be 200 45acps, maybe 150 44 magnums, and 100 357s, etc.

Either way you go, pay attention and you can start on a progressive. Especially if your mechanically inclined. Most important thing to watch is your powder charges. Always look in your cases.

I started on a 550 which can be more dangerous as far as double charges due to manual indexing, but I always pay attention to the powder in the case. I've loaded close to 30k now in about 5 years. No squibs, no double charges. (Knock on wood)

No matter which way you go, you should be able to recoup your costs on the press if and when you decide to upgrade.

I'm eyeballing a Rl1100 now for 223 lol. My wife says I'm like a junkie.

 

[cfullgraf]

Oh

Then again, perhaps my first purchase should be an automatic decapper? They are really spendy IMO.

Nah, get a single stage reloading kit. Decapping occurs during sizing so no wasted effort. Auto decappers are for volume reloaders.

The Lee o-frame press is a good, economical single stage press. Later, it will serve you well for the specialized single stage press tasks.

Lee dies are generally good but I do not like their standard o-ring lock dies. They do have a new die lock ring that claims to lock the ring to the die and maintains its setting that would work fine. It is a split lock ring.

When you upgrade to a Dillon 750, the Lee dies should work just fine.

RCBS Rockchucker or Redding Big Boss are excellent single stage presses if you want something that will last forever.

Dies with a 7/8”-14 thread are the standard for the most part these days. Most dies and presses use this thread. This gives lots of flexibility.

I prefer Redding or RCBS dies but I have a Lyman set or two. Dillon dies have a good reputation but their case mouth expanding die does not fit well with my method of reloading on a progressive. Dillon expands the case mouth and drops the powder at same time.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Now that's pretty cool. I had no idea such a thing existed. I'll do a bit of research to find out if it would work with the Dillon case feeder.

it will work! we have done it here! ask a guy name @jmorris < he even motorized it

 

[TacticalJanitor]

Nah, get a single stage reloading kit. Decapping occurs during sizing so no wasted effort. Auto decappers are for volume reloaders.

The Lee o-frame press is a good, economical single stage press. Later, it will serve you well for the specialized single stage press tasks.

Lee dies are generally good but I do not like their standard o-ring lock dies. They do have a new die lock ring that claims to lock the ring to the die and maintains its setting that would work fine. It is a split lock ring.

When you upgrade to a Dillon 750, the Lee dies should work just fine.

RCBS Rockchucker or Redding Big Boss are excellent single stage presses if you want something that will last forever.

Dies with a 7/8”-14 thread are the standard for the most part these days. Most dies and presses use this thread. This gives lots of flexibility.

I prefer Redding or RCBS dies but I have a Lyman set or two. Dillon dies have a good reputation but their case mouth expanding die does not fit well with my method of reloading on a progressive. Dillon expands the case mouth and drops the powder at same time.

More good info. As I said earlier, I'm hesitant to invest in a SDB because of the oddball dies and their spotty availability. Thanks!

 

[JO JO]

I have a 750 with a case feeder and a 550 , I used to have a square deal b
one thing the square deal is a small press with a very small loading window depending on your hand size that may or may not be an issue
I would pick either the 550 or the 750 as they can load many calibers and use normal dies plus they can grow with you as your reloading needs grow

 

[TacticalJanitor]

I have a 750 with a case feeder and a 550 , I used to have a square deal b
one thing the square deal is a small press with a very small loading window depending on your hand size that may or may not be an issue
I would pick either the 550 or the 750 as they can load many calibers and use normal dies plus they can grow with you as your reloading needs grow

Thanks sir. I really am leaning towards the 750 right now. I didn't expect to get this much helpful advice.

This is a great forum!

 

[Mark_Mark]

More good info. As I said earlier, I'm hesitant to invest in a SDB because of the oddball dies and their spotty availability. Thanks!

for $400 it’s a good machine, small and robust. Solid priming system, beeps when your low

 

[Mark_Mark]

More good info. As I said earlier, I'm hesitant to invest in a SDB because of the oddball dies and their spotty availability. Thanks!

if you do get a SDB… remember, it won’t go to waste! Like the rest of us reloaders, you will accumulate 4-5-6-7 presses on your table

 

[TacticalJanitor]

for $400 it’s a good machine, small and robust. Solid priming system, beeps when your low

According to Dillon the SDB starts at $630, and with all the bits and pieces I need to get started we are talking about $1100-ish. Granted, I probably don't need a lot of those parts.

A 750 with case feeder and assorted parts I think I want/need, and one set of dies is about $1800, and I would still need a scale, cleaner, probably a lot of odds and ends.

In my mind it comes down to a grand for an SDB, or two grand for a 750. It's a big price difference, and that's why I'm having such a hard time making the decision. I could nearly purchase two complete SDBs and share some parts between them for the same price....and no changover time for two calibers.

I'd buy either model second-hand in an instant, but I haven't seen one for sale on CL in the last six months.

 

[cfullgraf]

According to Dillon the SDB starts at $630, and with all the bits and pieces I need to get started we are talking about $1100-ish. Granted, I probably don't need a lot of those parts.

A 750 with case feeder and assorted parts I think I want/need, and one set of dies is about $1800, and I would still need a scale, cleaner, probably a lot of odds and ends.

In my mind it comes down to a grand for an SDB, or two grand for a 750. It's a big price difference, and that's why I'm having such a hard time making the decision. I could nearly purchase two complete SDBs and share some parts between them for the same price....and no changover time for two calibers.

I'd buy either model second-hand in an instant, but I haven't seen one for sale on CL in the last six months.

For parts not reloaded on a Dillon, you would still need them whether you buy a 750 or an SDB.

Things like scales, tumblers and the such are not unique to the potential progressive press and still is desired for reloading.

While I like my SDB presses, the 750 would be a better first progressive press.

I load 45 ACP, 9x19, and 380 ACP on Dillon SDB presses. For me, I load the same load all the time and the basic-ness of the a SDB works well with my load.

But, I load lots of other cartridges on other progressive presses.

 

[Mark_Mark]

According to Dillon the SDB starts at $630, and with all the bits and pieces I need to get started we are talking about $1100-ish. Granted, I probably don't need a lot of those parts.

A 750 with case feeder and assorted parts I think I want/need, and one set of dies is about $1800, and I would still need a scale, cleaner, probably a lot of odds and ends.

In my mind it comes down to a grand for an SDB, or two grand for a 750. It's a big price difference, and that's why I'm having such a hard time making the decision. I could nearly purchase two complete SDBs and share some parts between them for the same price....and no changover time for two calibers.

I'd buy either model second-hand in an instant, but I haven't seen one for sale on CL in the last six months.

I have a local shop that has .38 and .357 for $389. They might ship if you ask nicely. PM me and I’ll give you their contact

 

[Kaldor]

A very good post. There is a lot of info that pertains directly to what a 750 can/will do that a SDB cannot. Thank you for taking the time.

Of course, I won't fool with bullet feeders anytime soon and in fact, I imagine that I would initially run either press in the same way in an effort to overcome the learning curves. After I'm up to speed, I would probably appreciate the option of adding upgrades and features.

400 rounds per hour is plenty for me. Let's say it takes me an hour to change calibers, and three more hours to pump out 1000 rounds. I'd be happy with that output.

I had to Google "Mark One Eyeball". Lol!

Nothing really wrong with a SBD or a 550 either, it's just that they are 4 station presses. A 550 is probably one of the more accurate rifle progressive presses, and you really only need 4 stations for rifle and the SDB is stupid simple once you're setup and it's well priced for what you're getting.

The 750 is a better press if you want to do everything though. So personally I would always buy a 5 station over the 4 station. It's not about where you're starting sometimes, but where you want to end up.

The press is just the start of it. One thing you will have to buy is all the equipment that supports reloading any caliber regardless of the press you end up with.

 

[gunmechanic]

Buy the xl750, you will be set up for expansion down the road .

 

[lordpaxman]

If you’re serious about 10-15k per year for one caliber, I’d say a progressive makes sense. If it’s that many, I also recommend a case feeder - since you don’t have to do it manually, you can better keep track of all the other operations going on. I also was tired of dealing with crimped primers in 9mm and .223, and others. I reload a lot of range brass, and don’t want to spend my time inspecting every case and deciding if it did or didn’t need to be worked on.

I have the impression that the 1050 is a little bit overkill for me. I'll do a little reading on it though.

I'm eyeballing a Rl1100 now for 223 lol. My wife says I'm like a junkie.

When I looked at the 750 plus case feeder, the RL1100 wasn’t that much more. It does cost more for the toolheads and caliber conversions, but it’s a buy once cry once deal. Caliber changeovers are easy, primer conversion not so much so. I don’t do primer conversions on mine. I started out on a Hornady LNL, and it’s not a bad press or platform, and I still have and use it, but the Rl1100 doesn’t disappoint.

 

[derek45]

750 with case feeder and powder check system

maybe start out on a single stage, like the RCBS Rock Chucker to get the basics

Your shop can always use a single stage

 

[jmorris]

With an unmodified SD I can load 100 rounds in 9 minutes 30 seconds. They only use Dillon dies, available only for popular pistol calibers. I have had two for more than 30 years and they were a great deal back then.



Compared to the new at the time 550.




That said, I couldn’t suggest one at their current price as the much more versatile 550 is today less expensive than their SD.






On my 650’s that are equipped with collated case and bullet feed I can load 100 rounds in under 4 minutes. This machine is equipped with the no longer in production GSI bullet feeder that feeds and seats at #4, keeping crimp at #5 and powder check at #3.



I personally value the powder check die quite a bit. Set correctly they will even detect variances in internal case volume. Like these steeped 9mm cases.



I also built this setup for one of my 1050’s that’s nice for loading a lot of ammunition. 1000 rounds takes 51 minutes and 25 seconds.



While it’s loading, I generally use the Dillon primer tube loader at the end of the video and maintain bullet/case levels in the collators and case gauge and box. Trying to do as many things concurrently as possible to reduce the total time I have to be involved.

 

[Mark_Mark]

@TacticalJanitor that guy^^^ the Tesla of the reloading world