Stacking HPs Over FMJ In A Carry Gun?

[WrongHanded]

This is not about Hollow Point versus FMJ.

On various product pages on the Buffalo Bore website, the following suggestion is made:

When I carry a defensive/offensive handgun, I consider that should I be required to shoot another human, if I don't kill him on the first couple shots, he will get behind cover. So, generally speaking, I will load two or three JHP cartridges to be fired first from my magazine, but all cartridges in the magazine after the first few, will be FMJ-FN so if my target is taking refuge behind a stick frame wall or a sofa or a car door, etc, I can shoot through his cover and kill him. JHP bullets may or may not penetrate various types of cover.

So, what do you guys think about this? I can see it being a bad idea in an urban setting, but possibly a good idea for rural areas or highway commuting.

 

[Pat Riot]

Well, in my opinion, this might be a good idea. Having never been in a gunfight I am not sure how I would do but I would hope my initial rounds would do the trick IF I were able to put them where I would want them.

One thing that came to mind when reading that excerpt was “Why is the person hiding? Is it because they have taken themselves out of the fight and would my shooting through a barrier be my demise in court? Or are they hiding to get an advantage and my follow up rounds might take them out shooting through the barrier...but would a DA try to make it look like I was a blood thirsty killer bent on getting my prey, no matter what.”

Personally, I wouldn’t be mixing up rounds in my magazine. I don’t relish the idea of defending those actions in court.

Maybe I am paranoid...but it doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be out to get me after a shootout.

Yes, I am assuming that I won, regardless.

 

[LaneP]

I think the guy has been watching too many Bruce Willis movies.

 

[1KPerDay]

Is a guy hiding behind cover still legally considered a direct threat to your life?

 

[Waveski]

Is a guy hiding behind cover still legally considered a direct threat to your life?

Well , one would hate like heck to empty the magazine of all of it's hp rounds , fail to penetrate the cover taken by the assailant , then see if said assailant has quit the fight or has decided to stand up and shoot the guy who is out of ammo...

 

[C-grunt]

Has anyone tested hollowpoint vs FMJ in various barriers? Is there that much of a difference?

 

[WrongHanded]

Is a guy hiding behind cover still legally considered a direct threat to your life?

Very good point, and facing that situation I'd say seeking cover for one's self and/or "disengaging" the heck outta there might be the best move.

Then again, if you sought cover and got pinned down, and were still being shot at, then it might be helpful to have more penetration.

Maybe a spare mag of FMJ-FN would be a good compromise.

 

[WrongHanded]

Has anyone tested hollowpoint vs FMJ in various barriers? Is there that much of a difference?

I haven't tested it myself, and don't have a good link right now, but from what I recall seeing around the web, FMJ does penetrate hard barriers better. And the smaller diameter faster bullets do it better, as far as the selection of service calibers goes.

I suppose the most modern bullet designs may be more effective at penetrating hard barriers than older HP designs.

 

[9mmepiphany]

So, what do you guys think about this? I can see it being a bad idea in an urban setting, but possibly a good idea for rural areas or highway commuting.

I think it sounds like the rantings of a mall ninja...or maybe someone who doesn't understand the properties of modern JHP bullets

 

[Hartkopf]

I haven't tested it myself, and don't have a good link right now, but from what I recall seeing around the web, FMJ does penetrate hard barriers better. And the smaller diameter faster bullets do it better, as far as the selection of service calibers goes.

I suppose the most modern bullet designs may be more effective at penetrating hard barriers than older HP designs.

I shot a .075 thick sheet of mild steel with a 45ACP 230gr HST. It did not penetrate but left a large impression. Then I shot the same steel with a 9mm 147gr HST. It was the same result as the 45 but a smaller dent. Next was 9mm 124gr HST and it penetrated the steel. Weeks later I tried 124gr +p Gold Dots and it had similar results to the 124gr HST. So in this particular case, smaller and faster were more effective.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Maybe a spare mag of FMJ-FN would be a good compromise.

If you don't have much faith in your choice of defensive ammo, this would be a better alternative than loading two kinds of bullets in the same magazine

 

[WrongHanded]

I think it sounds like the rantings of a mall ninja...or maybe someone who doesn't understand the properties of modern JHP bullets

From what I've read about the owner of Buffalo Bore, he's pretty far from a mall ninja. But perhaps he doesn't know too much about the latest JHP designs. And perhaps he doesn't do barrier testing with the ones his company use in their SD loadings. Or maybe he does, which is why he wrote that.

But I think it's an interesting idea.

 

[Hartkopf]

This is not about Hollow Point versus FMJ.

On various product pages on the Buffalo Bore website, the following suggestion is made:

When I carry a defensive/offensive handgun, I consider that should I be required to shoot another human, if I don't kill him on the first couple shots, he will get behind cover. So, generally speaking, I will load two or three JHP cartridges to be fired first from my magazine, but all cartridges in the magazine after the first few, will be FMJ-FN so if my target is taking refuge behind a stick frame wall or a sofa or a car door, etc, I can shoot through his cover and kill him. JHP bullets may or may not penetrate various types of cover.

So, what do you guys think about this? I can see it being a bad idea in an urban setting, but possibly a good idea for rural areas or highway commuting.

I think this is a terrible idea. His hypothetical situation could happen in the reverse order.

He should shoot an old mini refrigerator with 230 gr HSTs. It’s trucking right on through with plenty of velocity when it exits the other side. And I’m pretty sure the cheapest hp in the world will penetrate a modern sofa easily.

 

[WrongHanded]

I shot a .075 thick sheet of mild steel with a 45ACP 230gr HST. It did not penetrate but left a large impression. Then I shot the same steel with a 9mm 147gr HST. It was the same result as the 45 but a smaller dent. Next was 9mm 124gr HST and it penetrated the steel. Weeks later I tried 124gr +p Gold Dots and it had similar results to the 124gr HST. So in this particular case, smaller and faster were more effective.

Thanks for that.

I couldn't find it, but I once saw a YouTube video comparing FMJs in 9mm, .357 Sig, .40S&W, and .45 ACP. The guy had a series of aluminum sheets separated with a gap between each sheet, and was testing which cartridge would penetrate more of them. The smaller diameters went through more in this testing too.

 

[WrongHanded]

I suppose he might just be trying to sell a box of FMJ and a box of HP at the same time.

 

[toivo]

Is a guy hiding behind cover still legally considered a direct threat to your life?

I think that if he's still shooting at you then yes, he is.

That said, I agree with those who say there's way too much speculating going on there. Who knows what kind of scenario might actually happen? I would stick with hollowpoints for defense. Unless I lived in New Jersey.

 

[barnetmill]

I would look at some of the solid copper core bullets. They are suppose to do well on sheet metal and still make big holes in flesh.

 

[M1key]

I've done it before when I didn't quite have enough HPs to fill a mag. I made sure that both loads shot to the same POA. I still do the same in my HD AR.

M

 

[Trunk Monkey]

 

[Jack Ryan]

This is not about Hollow Point versus FMJ.

On various product pages on the Buffalo Bore website, the following suggestion is made:

When I carry a defensive/offensive handgun, I consider that should I be required to shoot another human, if I don't kill him on the first couple shots, he will get behind cover. So, generally speaking, I will load two or three JHP cartridges to be fired first from my magazine, but all cartridges in the magazine after the first few, will be FMJ-FN so if my target is taking refuge behind a stick frame wall or a sofa or a car door, etc, I can shoot through his cover and kill him. JHP bullets may or may not penetrate various types of cover.

So, what do you guys think about this? I can see it being a bad idea in an urban setting, but possibly a good idea for rural areas or highway commuting.

I think if my fore sight was that good to predict as much, I'd just take a day off and stay home or carry the shotgun.

 

[Pat Riot]

Years ago we tested Lexan train windows that were “bullet resistant” using various ammo from handguns and long guns.
We found that the windows stopped most handgun ammo but heavier 9mm FMJ and .22 Magnum passed through. So we redid the test with a sheet of 3/8” thick drywall 1’ behind the Lexan windows. Both the 9mm and .22 Mag rounds put a dent in the drywall. In other words, anyone having their noggin rapped with one of those rounds might walk away with a bit of a headache and a knot on their head.

It’s not “will it pass through?” but “what’s it do once it passes through?”

I would wait for a clear shot or wait for the cavalry.

 

[JR24]

If there's one thing police reports and the various videos out there show me is the first few shots don't reliably stop bad guys, so now you've potentially just handicapped yourself for an extremely unlikely scenario.

If the bad guy does find hard cover then you've likely got time to find some yourself, get the heck out, or swap mags to the Super Penetrator Deluxe (TM) ammo you've got for just that situation.

I'll stick with quality JHP for consistency. Maybe if/when those hyper fast solid copper screwdriver rounds show actual street results we all can have the best of both worlds.

 

[Rule3]

Just buy super duper HP bullets that are bonded and tested on barriers, I think Rem Golden Sabers make that claim. What do the LEOS use? They don't alternate bullets. How many enemies have been killed with FMJ ammo in Wars?

Now you can sleep better at night.

 

[AK103K]

Maybe if people spent as much time in practice as they do worrying about stuff like this, the guy they were shooting at, wouldnt make it to cover.

 

[bdickens]

Where do people cone up with these cockamane ideas?

The cops don't do this. And they expect to have to shoot through barriers.