Starting Reloading

[thomas15]

I think Varminterror, the ability for some to say to anyone who will listen that "I" reload my ammo is reason enough to do it. You are absolutely correct in post #95. But we all have our individual reasons and this is a recreational activity.

I had two steel matches in one weekend, just a few weeks ago and discovered that I didn't have enough ammo to complete even 1 never mind 2. What I needed to do is make up at a minimum 700 rounds and had 2 days to do it. When I say days I actually mean a few hours after work.

So there I am with a progressive press working my heart out to meet a deadline. I have good stuff and a literal crap ton of components and brass. My bench is set up properly and efficiently. Some may laugh at this claim but I do know what I'm doing. And I like to handload and take pride in my work but even when you have the ability to crank out 350-400 quality rounds per hour on a deadline you start wishing that you could seriously improve that thru-put time.

 

[Varminterror]

OP just wants an inexpensive way to make good safe .40 ammo and save money to stretch his funds. That can easily be done if a million people don't tell him differently and throw hundreds of dollars of suggestions at him.

A lot of us have sought the same - an inexpensive way to make good, safe ammo. A lot of us have bought something cheap and realized the kit didn’t have everything we really needed, so we spent more money to get going. Also, a lot of us have bought something cheap, then spent MORE money because we didn’t realize how RIDICULOUSLY LONG it takes to load a sufficient volume of ammo on the kit gear to meet our utilization. I’ve made and remade lists of equipment every year for a long time, suiting different volumes of reloading and different expectations for precision - I’ve never found a reloader who could really tolerate ONLY owning any kit I have seen without supplementation or replacement. Meaning, without spending more than $200.

The path to “perfect for me” can be different for different folks because we all have different needs and different standards for “perfect,” but I don’t think I want to meet the guy who thinks loading 500rnds per week on a Lee Anniversary single stage kit is “perfect for them.”

 

[Old Stumpy]

If you shoot . 357 magnum, .45 Colt, or .44 magnum, you can easily cut the cost per box in half, or less.
These are pretty common cartridges and the savings are substantial.

Cheaper American Eagle .45 Colt at Midway costs $40.00 a box of 50, or 80 cents a round, and you can reload those cases about 10 times.
Hardcast bullets will cost you about 17 cents each so that's $8.50 for the bullets for 50 rounds.
Powder will cost you $1.50 or less per 50 rounds.
Primers will cost you about $1.75 for 50.
That's about $11.75 a box of 50 rounds, or 29.3% of the cost of factory, or about 24 cents a round.
Even with JSP bullets at 26 cents a bullet or 34 cents a round, reloading is still well worthwhile right from the beginning.

If you shoot cheaper 150 grain American Eagle .30-06 at $26.00 a box of 20, or $1.30 a round, you should be able to get 6 reloads from the brass.
Speer Hot-Cor 150 grain bullets will cost you 20 cents each, or $4.00 for 20 rounds.
IMR powder will cost you about $4.80 for 20 rounds.
Primers will cost you about 70 cents for 20 rounds.
That's about $9.50 a box of 20 rounds, or 36.5% of the cost of factory, or about 48 cents a round. Less than half.

 

[Prowler53]

I spent a few months just reading forums like this one. Lot's of good advice and friendly help when you need it. I started with an RCBS Rockchucker kit, but found out quickly how slow it was for pistol ammo. Go with a progressive if you plan on shooting more than a couple hundred rounds a week, and you will Like was previously posted.....It's not going to save you money, but you will be shooting more.

 

[Old Stumpy]

The path to “perfect for me” can be different for different folks because we all have different needs and different standards for “perfect,” but I don’t think I want to meet the guy who thinks loading 500rnds per week on a Lee Anniversary single stage kit is “perfect for them.”

In essence though, it only matters if they ARE attempting to load 500 rounds a week. Many, like myself, care nothing for action shooting, and load less than 500 rounds a month. There are many other kinds of shooters and shooting interests than action shooting. I could buy a progressive press tomorrow it I needed one, but like many other reloaders I don't.

And, any single stage reloading press, powder scale and measure will share the same speed limitations with the Lee, regardless of cost.
I would agree that a better set of tools than the Lee is preferable, but simply because of ease of use and quality and longevity.

I use the Lee case trimmers and primer pocket cleaner in a drill press on low speed quite happily and quickly compared to other methods.
And the Lee hand held auto prime works faster and easier compared to clumsy on-press priming.

 

[kmw1954]

You’re not understanding opportunity cost....

Oh Yes I do understand Opportunity, Need and Demand Costs. So much so that I worked myself into an early disability retirement. Can't even to begin to tell you of the family gatherings I missed out on because of opportunity, need or demands of work. Worked at a job just before retirement that was a mandatory 45-55 hr. work week as every other week was 6 days and I did that for almost 8 years. And did that all while working 3rd shift, 10pm to 7am.

Before that after my divorce I worked 70 hours a week just to survive after paying child support. So if your opportunity cost is more important than your life situation than by all means work. Just hope you don't get to my age and regret missing out on family opportunities and life itself..

Also I believe it was brought up about missing work in order to reload thus the reason for calling it a HOBBY.

 

[Varminterror]

Before that after my divorce I worked 70 hours a week just to survive after paying child support.

So in your paradigm, time spent working for free (reloading) instead of working for wage had even higher opportunity cost. You would have been missing family functions whether you were reloading or working and buying factory ammo, because your time demand was high - but you could have had more money if you weren’t working for free.

 

[Varminterror]

That has changed for some kits - https://leeprecision.com/breech-lock-challenger-kit.html


View attachment 843927

Does that deburr and chamfer too?

 

[kmw1954]

For what it worth, on another forum I frequent there is a member that had been loading with a Lee Thigh Master and wanted to increase his ability and work load. He already had everything to load what calibers he needed he just wanted a bench press. He was given all the usual responses and suggestions. He ended up buying a Lee C press, has it bolted to a 2X8 and C clamped to a table. Honestly he is happier than a pig in a mud pit and really going to town. Almost ever couple days he posts what he had recently done and one can hear the excitement in his tone. Who wants to tell him he's doing it wrong?

 

[kmw1954]

So in your paradigm, time spent working for free (reloading) instead of working for wage had even higher opportunity cost. You would have been missing family functions whether you were reloading or working and buying factory ammo, because your time demand was high - but you could have had more money if you weren’t working for free.

Seems you missed the point, When I was working 70hrs. per week there was no FREE TIME. It was work, sleep, work, sleep. Also in my Paradigm reloading is not working. It's personal time, My time, Just as my time spent here on the forum is. So if you need to keep arguing this point please do it with someone else.

 

[LiveLife]

Does that deburr and chamfer too?

No

 

[Walkalong]

Maybe we should listen to the OP and answer his questions without tainting/blurring it with what worked for us and our needs and what we ended up with vs what we started with. With more funds we would have all started "bigger". Way too much overthinking it going on. K.I.S.S.

 

[JFrank]

KISS you say”
A press can be purchased second hand , other than that it’s surprising how little you really need to make quality rifle ammunition.

 

[thomas15]

A press can be purchased second hand , other than that it’s surprising how little you really need to make quality rifle ammunition.

I purchased a brand new Redding T-7 for $120 from an internet company that was going out of business. I bought a used Redding #1 oil damped beam scale for $20 of ebay. Bought the scale as a display item. I also bought an RCBS Uniflow with rifle rotor for $18 and a Little Dandy with an assortment of inserts for $15. I arranged for a guy on the S&W forum to buy a used but excellent condition Dillon 450 with 45 acp dies for $100

Deals are out there but you need to know what you want, what you are doing and be patient. As another poster in this thread said, I also could outfit someone with everything they need to get started, stuff 10 times better than a Lee kit, just with odds and ends I have picked up here and there or won at prize tables.

 

[thomas15]

...….He was given all the usual responses and suggestions. He ended up buying a Lee C press, has it bolted to a 2X8 and C clamped to a table. Honestly he is happier than a pig in a mud pit and really going to town. Almost ever couple days he posts what he had recently done and one can hear the excitement in his tone. Who wants to tell him he's doing it wrong?

In all honesty my friend I have a Lee C press that I have been trying to give away for about 2 years. The thing works but isn't worth the 10 bux it cost to ship. But I guess if I had a Lee hand press I would probably think anything was an improvement.

 

[JFrank]

One thing I’ve learned for my particular discipline is that hand tools trump power tools , Harrell’s Precision and LE Wilson makes extremely good hand tools

 

[LiveLife]

View attachment 843949 KISS you say”
A press can be purchased second hand , other than that it’s surprising how little you really need to make quality rifle ammunition.

Absolutely.

Even during the last two component shortages, I scraped together used single stage presses, Pro 1000s, 5-0-5/10-10 scales from gun shows/craigslist along with Harbor Freight digital calipers (Years ago when they were good) and new FA tumblers and got people reloading. I paid forward a lot of bullets/primers and did group buys for powder to use with printed load data from powder manufacturers. Yes, you CAN start reloading with few basic equipment.

At least those starting out to reload now have plenty of equipment and components "in stock" to choose from.

I still remember the phone call from my sister who went to Walmart/sporting goods stores and found empty shelves of ammunition ... Sounding tearful she said, "They are gone ... They are all gone!" and I promptly reloaded several thousand rounds for her and BIL.

So be glad and get what you need from single stage to turret to progressive presses and load away.

 

[Styx]

I believe OP bought Challenger Breech Lock single stage press

I held off after others chimed in. I only purchased a reloading book thus far.

 

[Legionnaire]

@Styx, PM me with your mailing address and I’ll send you a copy of Lyman #49 if you would like.

 

[kmw1954]

I held off after others chimed in. I only purchased a reloading book thus far.

Well you certainly have received a wide array of thoughts and suggestions. Only hope it hasn't confused the process. Good luck going forward!

 

[badkarmamib]

I started loading .40 with a Lee Single Stage kit. I should have ponied up the extra $40 or so for the Turret kit (I still use the SS for rifle, and have the Lee ABLP for pistol).
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-classic-4-hole-turret-press-deluxe-kit
Frankford Arsenal tumbler and media.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/587176/frankford-arsenal-quick-n-ez-case-tumbler
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...enal-brass-cleaning-media-treated-walnut-hull
Lyman reloading Manual. RCBS basic check weight set.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/533891/rcbs-standard-scale-check-weight-set
A place to work. Dies and components. Will you add more later (Tricklers are nice, and a kinetic puller for your mistakes is a must. <$40 for both, on a budget)? Probably. But, will all of these still be useful if you upgrade later? Most definitely.

 

[AmmoMan757]

If you're trying to get in to loading equipment as cheap as you can and you only plan on loading 40 S&W take a look at something like this.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/650614/lee-breech-lock-hand-press-kit

I have spent many hours using one of these. It is not the fastest but it works. I would not recommend it for rifle brass, but for straight walled pistol brass it works fine. In addition you'll need dies, powder scale and a way to dispense powder. Lee makes a set of small scoops that will work and they are $20 or less. Add a powder trickler, funnel and you're in business. A lot of individuals have given good recommendations on starting kits, none of them are bad you just have to decide on how much you want to spend and what will work best for you.

 

[Old Stumpy]

So in your paradigm, time spent working for free (reloading) instead of working for wage had even higher opportunity cost. You would have been missing family functions whether you were reloading or working and buying factory ammo, because your time demand was high - but you could have had more money if you weren’t working for free.

So I am supposed to work 70 hours a week to make reloading uneconomical?
I think that i would rather work 40 hours a week and reload for a couple of hours a week without pay.
I would rather have a life.

 

[Varminterror]

So I am supposed to work 70 hours a week to make reloading uneconomical?
I think that i would rather work 40 hours a week and reload for a couple of hours a week without pay.
I would rather have a life.

The point, which you’re missing, is the fact you don’t have a life either way. One option is making money during those hours, the other is reloading. Just for bulk ammo, there’s usually a means to make money during the same amount of time spent, especially on a single stage or progressive, to cover the gap in expense.

Keep banging on the 70hr gong, maybe someone who doesn’t know how to work will feel sorry for you.

A lot of guys think they need to reload because folks say it saves money. And it can. But most folks have means to make more money in the same time spent than their savings, and simply buy factory ammo.

 

[LiveLife]

I held off after others chimed in. I only purchased a reloading book thus far.

If you have not considered, check out Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro.

It's a unique 4 station progressive with manual primer feed that to me is a game changer for Lee Precision as it established it's own class like Lee's Classic Turret press. It's Lee Precision's latest press and essentially addressed all the issues that were present in other presses with innovative features not present in m any other progressive press, regardless of brand.

• Change from small to large primer quickly without removing the shell plate
• Both size primer arms and tools stored in on-board built-in tool storage
• Easy shell plate / dies replacement for fast caliber conversion (Faster than any other progressive press)
• Cheapest case feeder option for faster production rate ($22 with $11 case collator compared to $200-$300+ for Dillon/Hornady)
• No adjust shell plate indexing with through shell plate index rod
• Free-float shell plate with off-set ram under station 1 (Resizing die) for more consistent OAL variance of finished rounds
• Through-ram spent primer disposal like Classic Turret
• Comes with ergo roller handle

It is sold as separate press only and not in a kit but this allows users to customize their die selection and powder measure options. Having loaded over 5,000 rounds on ABLP, I highly recommend use of Safety Prime and Case Feeder/Collator which increase production rate to several hundred an hour.

For reloading high volume pistol and short rifle calibers, it is an obvious choice for many.

Check it out.

What about Dillon 550? It is a great manual index progressive press without case feeder. For auto index and case feeder option, you would need to consider Dillon 650, which is an awesome progressive press.

But my 650 stay setup for one caliber as I have several Pro 1000s set up for specific calibers. More I use the ABLP, if I had to do caliber conversion for reloading on a regular basis, it is the easiest and quickest to change calibers. And with 4 stations, you also have separate seat and crimp option.