Starting Reloading

Status
Not open for further replies.
You can buy a Lee kit, add a cheap caliper and reload good safe ammo.

As reloaders we tend to start adding goodies we don't really need, etc. You can be frugal and save money by buying the minimum, which is what you want, or you can spend enough to buy a small car.

Start out with a Lee kit, have fun, enjoy the savings, or enjoy shooting more for the same money.

Easy peasy.
 
I will be reloading to save money per round on ammo. My time isn't a factor in cost. I'm not missing work or losing money by spending my time reloading; I'll be saving money.

It’s opportunity costs. If you spent the same time doing a side hustle for which you were paid, then is the savings worth the time? Usually it is not.
 
It’s opportunity costs. If you spent the same time doing a side hustle for which you were paid, then is the savings worth the time? Usually it is not.

That's absurd!
Do I then explain to the neighbors that my grass is 10" high because I've been too busy doing side jobs to cut my grass?
Or tell the wife I cannot come to bed with her because I'm too busy?
 
So I will not be able to reload 40s&w with a $200 or so kit? As of right now and the foreseeable future, that is the only round I will be reloading. Factory 40s&w is about $30-$40 per 100 of target ammo at Wal-Mart and my LGS. Are you saying that I will not be able to reload for less than that?

FWIW, My goal right now I'm isn't to fix have the latest and greatest equipment, but rather to be able to shoot more for less money on ammo. I do not want to, at the low end, spend $60-$80 a month on factory ammo on top of rage and class fees.

You can reload 40 S&W with good efficiency for under $250. Check out videos on the Lee Value Turret press and the Lee Pro 1000 press.
 
I'll chime in with my $.02: Two topics:

1. "Expense Creep"
I very firmly believe one can load and load successfully for a long time with the purchase of an introductory kit and a few other essentials. I don't own Lee, but looking at their kits it looks to me that were someone to purchase one, plus the dies (~$50), calipers (~$20-$30), and a (dry media) tumbler ($40) you'd be good to go. (I'm obviously not addressing brass acquisition and the components/consumables.) And although I don't load.40 it sure sounds like you'd save a relative ton on cost/round by loading it yourself.

The "expense creep" pressure starts happening when there is the inevitable questioning and desire for better results after you have loaded for a while. "I wonder how I can make my ammo more consistent....or safe.....or accurate." The dangerous thought process becomes then "Well....since I'm saving so much money by reloading....I'm more than justified in getting <x>." Some examples of these include (I've actually bought these...so I speak from experience): (These aren't NECESSARY - so they're not meant to cause the OP to expand the shopping list...they're just examples of add-ons that, for certain reloaders, make the hobby more fun)
* Case Gauge - $25
* Scale Check Weights - $30
* Chronograph with Bluetooth Adapter - $150
* Wet Tumbling Setup - $100-$300

So if you're TRULY focused on cost - you have to be very disciplined in not letting these add-ons whittle away at the cost savings you desire.

2. Time Required To Load The Volume You Want To Shoot; And Do You Consider The Hobby Fun
I think you have to have a very very serious heart-to-heart with yourself about how many rounds per month you want to shoot and how much time per month you can put to reloading. And I would STRONGLY encourage you to be very realistic with this max time amount you're willing to spend at the reloading bench. You need to not feel rushed to do things quickly. To me this point is probably of utmost importance if you're going to load safely. Then, get reports from folks about realistically how much each type of press can produce per hour.....and figure out if the numbers work. Will you be able to produce the number of rounds you want each month in the time window you're willing to set aside? If you're rushed and/or can't create reasonably sized uninterrupted blocks of time Murphy is going to show up unexpectedly....and that can get bad.

But I think where @thomas15 was going was....without a progressive press....some folks find the process of pistol loading (if they're shooting a lot) intolerable....the boredom is too great. This then leads this type of person to upgrade the press....at another expense of roughly $600-$1,000.

My contention is if you fundamentally see the hobby as fun....the chances you'll be happy with a single stage are good IMHO...as long as you're happy spending the time required to shoot the volume you want. In my case I shoot maybe 200-300 rounds of pistol a month. I do it on a single stage. And I still get utter joy (after 5 yrs of loading) in going downstairs and loading up 100 rounds. But....I'm retired...and I have the time to do this leisurely. (And....that accounts for maybe 40% of all the different loading I do.)

OR
 
Last edited:
^^^You call it "Expense Creep" I consider the makers of handloading gear guilty of utilizing the "Carrot and Stick" method of marketing. Same end result though because you in the end spend the money.

So if you're TRULY focused on cost - you have to be very disciplined in not letting these add-ons whittle away at the cost savings you desire.

That and you need time/quantity discipline. You need to set aside time to do the reloading in advance of the (ammo) need and you need to keep the need at a manageable level. All of this is of course nearly impossible. Well said otisrush.
 
Last edited:
Mission creep - a very real thing with reloading.

Short answer - yes, you can reload very shootable ammo with an expenditure of $200-300.
When I started loading back in the late 1980s, I used a Lee handpress ( the thighmaster). However, shooting 100 rounds was an every few months thing.

Now, I'm loading around 15 different cartridges, and using a turret press, very satisfactorily too.

Don't listen to the nay-sayers. You don't need to sink $600 into loading one caliber.
If you sink mucho dinero in tooling, and decide it's not for you, you'll take a bath reselling.

Gamble $200 or so, give it a try.
 
That and you need time/quantity discipline. You need to set aside time to do the reloading in advance of the (ammo) need and you need to keep the need at a manageable level. All of this is of course nearly impossible.

Geat point. Virtually ALL of us say we shoot way more as a result of reloading. So whatever monthly consumption estimate is used now....it undoubtedly will get greater over time.
 
There are those of us that like to, actually love to put a fine point on the cost of things. The main thing to understand is if you are thinking that handloading ammo will save you boatloads of cash then you are in dire need of a intervention. In theory, you can truck on over to a discount website store and for about $200 get yourself a kit that has most of the hardware that you think you will need to start this endeavor. OK.

This is only one man's opinion and one man's experience. While the Lee kit would not be my choice, and was not my entry into reloading, it is a fact that with a reasonably modest outlay that you can set up and reload and save money if that is your objective.
A decent single station press, scale, powder measure, manuals, and related small tools, and a bench is all that you need. You can use most of the Lee kit as a starting point, but you will end up upgrading to a cast iron press, a better powder measure and scale.
Whether you save money or not depends on whether you shoot the same amount of ammunition as before, or whether you use the savings to shoot more. However, the reality is that in the long run, depending on the cartridges that you reload, if you shoot the same amount you will save money. 9mm? Forget it. But for many other cartridges, significantly.

The truth of the matter is if you are going to do this properly not half assed you will need three things. First thing is a sense that it is going to cost more than the cost of a beginners reloading kit. Second, you will need a place to perform the task at hand (a proper bench and storage) and third, it will take time and patience to acquire the knowledge and skills.

This is basically true, though not as dire as you picture it. I would advise anyone seriously wanting to reload to buy a cast iron press and a decent quality scale and powder measure. The lee case length gauges work well as do handheld tools from other manufacturers for chamfering. To save money you should build a bench if you can, using lumber and plywood, but a heavy old table will also serve. Storage depends on how many supplies you have to store. A shelf on your bench may be adequate for many. Acquiring the knowledge and skills probably won't take long if you can read and follow instructions. As a beginner 45 years ago I was producing ammo the same day that I bought my RCBS kit.

Unless you either consume 4 or 5 hundred rounds per month or are looking for performance not available in factory ammo you are not going to save any money handloading.

I have never consumed 400 rounds a month, ever, and I only wished to produce ammo similar to factory. I started handloading specifically because the cost of factory ammo was too great for my budget, and because the reloads were so much cheaper to produce. Even if you use factory bullets, you will save significantly because the brass casing represents 50% of the cost of loaded ammo in many cases. Often, that casing can be reused up to 10 times before it shows cracks, so do the math. I'm still using .44 magnum brass that is decades old.

There is a thread here somewhere where posters put up pictures of their benches. 99% of the pictures are showing 10s of 1000s of dollars worth of tackle housed in neat and orderly reloading areas, gear mounted on purpose built benches, components stored in proper cabinets. If you are handloading for handguns in any significant volume, a single stage or turret press is so slow that you will want to rip your face off as you become a slave to your bench.

And there are many more reloaders who just built a hundred dollar (or less) handyman bench and bolted their single stage press to it and used it for 40 years. I did something like this, but over the years I have also bolted an RCBS junior press to an old kitchen table or a plywood sub base and clamped it to counter tops. The point is that while affluent shooters delight in photographing their elaborate and expensive setups, these are unecessary. Most shooters will only need a corner of a basement or room and a shelf or two at most. And, a progressive reloading press is only needed if you shoot thousands of rounds of pistol ammo a month. Many shooters don't, and for them, a Dillon is just a white elephant that they end up selling. If you shoot 100 rounds on a weekend, 3 times a month, then a single stage or turret press is fine.

A good chronograph, used to measure the speed and variations of your handloads, will cost several hundred dollars.

You have exotic tastes. An F1 Chrony from Midway costs $110.00 new. I owned one and it did everything I needed it to, but I got along fine for 35 years without one. If you use the loads in the manuals, the velocities are given, and you can easily interpolate between minimum and maximum without difficulty. Unless you are into specialized reload development you simply don't need one.

While I would agree that the average reloader should skip the Lee kit and go with a cast iron press and a decent scale and powder measure, the outlay doesn't need to be more than $500.00 when it's all said and done. The tools will last for many years. And If you don't simply burn up your savings with more shooting you will be able to recoup your costs in a couple of years.

If you opt to go with the Lee kit anyway, it will do the job just fine. I don't like the scale at all, but the other stuff is okay. Lee has a knack for designing things so that they can be cheaply produced yet produce very good results. I think that you will end up replacing your Lee stuff in a couple of years with what I mentioned above. But for the cost, you really won't lose anything.
 
Last edited:
I started with a Lee 3 hole turret back in the early '80s. To that I added an RCBS 502 scale, plastic RCBS vernier caliper, and Little Dandy powder measure. I started loading 38 Specials in batch mode and learned from the Speer loading manual. Later, I added the auto-index feature and a deluxe autodisk powder measure. I also bought the lee auto-prime when it came out. I cleaned cases in hot soapy water on the stove and dried them in the oven. Later on I added an RCBS vibratory case cleaner. I used this gear for around twelve to fifteen years before I bought my Dillon 550. Starting with primed cases, I could produce 200 rounds per hour on the Lee, but I had to work hard at it and I needed more ammo because my wife was shooting with me, hence the Dillon. I still have that Lee turret and it is still serviceable. Until about a year and a half ago I was still using it for rifle ammo. I recently drug out the auto-disks from storage and upgraded them to pro-disks using the Lee kits, and I use them on the 550. My point is if you choose wisely your equipment can last a long time, even 'value' gear like the Lee. This is why I think a Lee Turret is a great starting press, it took me pretty far and I would say that it has paid for itself and probably the Dillon as well. That might be an overstatement, but I assembled quite a bit of ammo with that rig.
 
Trying to feed a simi-auto on a single stage press in brutal if you very may rounds. I started on a RCBS Jr kit in the 70's, then I was only shooting revolver. A single stage was no problem feeding a revolver. Fast forward 25 yr, I started shooting simi-auto in 9mm. Ammo was cheap but reload cast was 1/2. The bigger problem is finding the time to keep up with weekly demand. So I decided it was time for a AP, $400. At the time by break even point was at 3500 -4000 rounds. No Problem since I was shooting 5000 rounds a yr. The bigger problem was the SS press had my tennis elbow inflamed to the point I had to stop. The AP fixed the volume and gave relieve to my elbow.

Like with any hobby there will always be things you can add to make it more enjoyable.

Your biggest issue starting off will be the time needed to learn the correct way. A SS press will never be as fast a AP. So at some point if you decided to go forward you will acquire a AP for your high volume rounds.
 
So twice already in this tread I have demonstrated what I have, use and why and what it all cost me. In almost all of these topics there will one or two that will always chime in that the only way to go is with a Dillon. Anything less is subpar and a waste of money. Now this thread has shown and I point this out all the time that not everyone needs, wants or can afford a Dillon. I am not arguing their quality, CS support or expense, they are great tools but not what everyone needs. Same goes for those that insist that a Single stage is the best solution.

I will add this explanation to my story. As stated I was honest with myself and new what my goals were when I started looking for equipment being as I'd done this before. My original intention was to find a USED turret press. Not a dammed thing wrong with used because as others have also pointed out it takes a lot to destroy any of these presses. A turret press fit with the way I wanted to proceed and would handle the capacity I was looking for. So I started watching ebay for a good deal on any and all turret presses and the one thing that struck me right away was seeing the Lee Pro 1000 press and that if I was lucky, which I was, I could get a press with dies and a powder measure for less than I could get a Turret press and dies. So yes I did spend the next few weeks finding everything I could on the Lee Pro1000 press. I knew what the short comings were, I knew what the bitches all were, I didn't go into it blind and unaware. I bought that used press and still use it to this day just as it was designed to be used. And yes over time I was able to locate a used Lee 3 hole press to accommodate the Pro1000

And for the Record I load less than 4000 rounds total per year of 3 different calibers. Equipment doesn't need to be expensive and many tools can be done without. It still comes down to you and what you are willing to budget for this. And pistols require a lot less than bottlenecks.
 
The problem is that when you are starting off, unless you are under the tutelage of a mentor, you don't know what you don't know. I didn't have a mentor so I started with a Lee kit built around the Classic Turret and learned as I went along. It didn't take long before I replaced the powder measure and scale with easier-to-use units from RCBS. The ones that came with the kit worked--they were just a pain to adjust compared to the tools that replaced them. So it didn't take long before I was investing more than the original cost of the kit.

I think a kit is a great way to get started as it provides everything you need at once. But if one had a mentor, one could probably build a better set of tools and save money by buying second hand and/or when specific items are on sale.

I have collected enough stuff at this point that I could outfit someone else who is just starting out with everything they need save their dies. And I'd be happy to do so for someone local who then returned my equipment as they bought their own stuff more knowledgeably over time.
 
And no matter how big your bench is, soon it is too small.

I keep hearing this. I just rebuilt the bench top on mine and I cannot remember how many times I was told that it isn't big enough. Same goes when I talk about Turret presses I keep hearing it aint Big Enough you will need a Dillon.

Well almost 4 years back into doing this and the bench is still plenty big, the press is still plenty fast. I have not added any guns, do not own any long guns and have absolutely no interest in doing so. At 65 years old I seriously doubt I will be changing anything.
 
The problem is that when you are starting off, unless you are under the tutelage of a mentor, you don't know what you don't know.

I don't agree. I never had a mentor. In those pre-internet years I learned mostly everything that a mentor could have explained to me by reading reloading manuals and annuals at the public library, before buying my own manual. They all contained info on how to reload. In doing that I learned what I didn't know. If I had a question, I found the right book and looked it up. Today we seem to live in a time when many have become convinced that you can't learn to shoot or reload or do much of anything unless someone teaches you. But, that isn't the way it was when I was young and wanted to learn something new.
 
Sorry; I wasn't clear. Yes, you can learn all you need to know about reloading by reading. That's exactly what I did, too.

I simply meant that when it comes time to purchasing the tools (press, measures, dies, etc.) I was too inexperienced to make informed choices among options, so I didn't buy efficiently. I did not mean to imply that one can't learn reloading without a mentor; I meant that a mentor can really help select better equipment than a kit contains, and probably do so less expensively. In my case, I am still very pleased with my choice of press; but I'd have been better off buying a powder measure and scale separately.

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.
 
Last edited:
It is true that a <$200 investment in hardware will make something that goes bang but in all honestly unless you are willing to open up that wallet and pull out 5 or 6 bills, better yet 10 of them, then reconsider jumping into this semi-bottomless pit.

I have taught the NRA Metallic Cartridge Reloading course off and on for ~10yrs, as well as teaching my own “coaching style” and mentorship on the topic for years longer than that as well. The above is hugely true.

The fact you CAN load ammunition with a $200 kit doesn’t describe how efficiently or how quickly it can be loaded. For example, the Lee kits come with finger-held, hand powered case trimmers. If you’re only doing 20-50 at a time, that might be fine, but it’s AWFUL if you’re spending hours on hours twisting those heads in your fingertips to load hundreds or thousands of rounds. Equally, the powder drop might be sufficiently accurate for plinking ammo, but it lacks precision and control for precision ammunition. I’ve also never seen any kit which had a means to clean brass. The Lee kits, most common, don’t include calipers either. While it is true, these kits can take a piece of brass from empty to loaded, but it’s REALLY not enough to satisfy an experienced reloader’s process.

So we supplement additional gear and replace some of the gear from the kits - and those of us who have walked that road will generally say: the $200 kit isn’t enough, and you’ll actually spend $500-1000 to get a single stage or turret kit process running how it should.

As far as the investment and payback, in general, you should really have at least one of these conditions for reloading to make sense:

1) Excessively high shooting volume to reduce the unit cost of your ammo, for example, a competition shooter. Cutting a nickel per round off 25,000 rounds per year is a significant influence.

2) Substantial savings per round when reloaded vs. factory rounds. If you’re only shooting 20 rounds of 30-06 per year and save a nickel per round, it takes an irresponsibly long to pay back any reloading gear. But if you’re shooting, say, 300 Weatherby mag at $3/ factory round, which can be reloaded for $1/round, it doesn’t take nearly as many rounds at $2/round to pay back the gear.

3) High demand for precision. This isn’t a financial consideration - if you need extreme precision, it’s simple, the most precise ammo isn’t found in a factory box. We don’t pretend this has anything to do with money or time savings.

4) Wildcat, obsolete, or otherwise obscure cartridges. Pretty simple, if it isn't made, you make it yourself. Again, not a financial consideration, and we don’t pretend this has anything to do with money or time savings.

5) An absolutely irrational desire to reload. Some folks claim to only shoot so they have brass to reload. I can’t relate, even though I do enjoy reloading, but if I didn’t shoot, I wouldn’t spend time or money reloading. I’ve been a licensed ammunition manufacturer, and it’s a mind-numbing experience for me. All crank and no bang... but you can’t account for taste; heck, some people like to be tied up and whipped.
 
I simply meant that when it comes time to purchasing the tools (press, measures, dies, etc.) I was too inexperienced to make informed choices among options, so I didn't buy efficiently. I did not mean to imply that one can't learn reloading without a mentor; I meant that a mentor can really help select better equipment than a kit contains, and probably do so less expensively.

I don't recall that happening myself. But the choices back then were more limited and high quality was the norm. I ended up buying an RCBS JR2 press that came as a package deal with one set of dies of your choice. There were no Lee presses or cheaper aluminum presses so RCBS or Lyman was about it. You couldn't really go wrong. Even so, my reading suggested that the RCBS press was the best choice, and it was.
The same went for the scale and powder measure.
I think that new reloaders can select the best equipment today even better thanks to You Tube and the internet. There is alot of info out there. They just need to patiently sift through it all and evaluate if with their BS filter. :)
 
Do I then explain to the neighbors that my grass is 10" high because I've been too busy doing side jobs to cut my grass?

You’re not understanding opportunity cost...

If you can pay the neighbor kid $20/he to cut your grass while you’re working a $50/hr job, then you come out ahead. If you can pay for factory ammo and run a side job at a higher return, then reloading to save money doesn’t make sense.
 
there will one or two that will always chime in ... "the only way to go is with a Dillon. Anything less is subpar and a waste of money"
That is true, depending on your perspective and goals.

In our lifetime of reloading, cost of components will greatly overshadow the cost of equipment. So when tens of thousands of dollars will be spent on components, few hundred, even over a thousand spent on reloading equipment becomes less of an issue. Especially when you factor "No BS" warranty, Dillon in the end, is a very viable and ultimate reloading solution.

Having said that, many of us won't reach this perspective until later in our reloading life or may never reach this perspective, which is OK too.

Fortunately, I was trained to reload by a bullseye match shooter who was OCD about details and consistency and taught me both on Dillon 550 and Lee Pro 1000. When we range tested finished rounds for USPSA match, my groups from Dillon 550 and Pro 1000 were comparable. When I asked my mentor which press I should buy, he said what was important in producing accuracy was consistency of powder charge and finished rounds' dimensions. If the finished rounds were consistent, he said my pistols would not be able to tell which press they were loaded on.

For me, the factors of auto index and fixed volumetric powder metering (that could not drift) were enough of advantage along with lower price so I chose Pro 1000 over 550.

Fast forward 28 years and I now have Dillon 650 with case feeder which is awesome. But thanks to my reloading mentor, I have continued to use multiple Pro 1000s set up for each caliber to load over 500,000 consistent rounds that I made a point of using Pro 1000 for all of my THR load development and myth busting threads.

Why?

Well, the humble Pro 1000 with free-floating shell plate and off-set ram under station #1 (Resizing die) design allow for less shell plate deflection/tilt input on bullet seating/taper crimp die resulting in more consistent OAL of finished rounds (.001" with pre-resized mixed range brass, .002"-.003" with unresized mixed range brass) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779806

Free-floating shell plate/off-set ram under resizing die explained in detail - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779966

And Pro Auto Disk will meter most small granule powders with .1 gr variance and Sport Pistol with less than .05 gr variance on par (if not better) than my C-H micrometer powder measure (which is pretty consistent) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/c-h-502-micrometer-powder-measure-10-drops.834894/

So with 2018 revision of Pro 1000 to include through-shell plate index rod for precise indexing, through ram spent primer disposal, solid flat base and rotated position of dies for better visualization of powder fill, I won't have reservations about even the humble Pro 1000 producing consistent finished rounds. Had I not been trained on both Dillon 550 and Pro 1000, I probably would hold "Dillon is best" perspective but now I also hold Lee Pro 1000 and particularly Auto Breech Lock Pro are more than adequate to produce usable consistent reloads, even match grade reloads.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top