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State letter grades - RyanM style

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by RyanM, Oct 2, 2007.

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  1. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    People seem to like using the Brady grades to determine how "gun-friendly" a state is, but those really aren't very good criteria. They basically only tell you how many hoops you have to jump through to buy a gun. So I've made my own grading system, based on ease of getting CCW, and regulation of NFA weapons. Each state gets two grades, based on these two.

    For CCW:
    A = unrestricted CCW, no permit required
    B = Shall-issue (or effectively shall-issue), $10 per year or less for the initial permit
    C = Shall-issue (or effectively shall-issue), between $10.01 and $25 per year for the initial permit
    D = Shall-issue (or effectively shall-issue), $25.01 or greater per year for the initial permit; or may-issue regardless of cost
    E = No-issue (or effectively no-issue)

    I could have included things like fingerprint and training requirements, but it seems like additional requirements pretty much only occur in the higher priced states (or the may-issue states). So cost is a very good indicator of the number of hoops you have to jump through, as well.

    For NFA:
    A = all types of NFA weapons unrestricted at the state level
    B = machine guns unrestricted, one other type of weapon restricted
    C = machine guns unrestricted, two other types of weapon restricted
    D = machine guns only restricted; or three non-machine gun types restricted
    E = machine guns and any other types restricted, or greater than 3 non-machine gun types restricted

    "Restricted" means any type of restriction whatsoever. For instance, VA requires state registration of all machine guns. That means they get a D. Them's the breaks.

    State - CCW - NFA
    AL - C - C
    AK - A - A
    AZ - C - A
    AR - D - D
    CA - D - E
    CO - C - B
    CT - C - D
    DE - D - E
    FL - C - A
    GA - B - B
    HI - E - E
    ID - C - A
    IL - E - E
    IN - B - C
    IA - D - E
    KS - D - E
    KY - C - A
    LA - C - E
    ME - B - A
    MD - E - E
    MA - D - E
    MI - C - E
    MN - C - E
    MS - D - B
    MO - D - E
    MT - C - C
    NE - C - B
    NV - C -A
    NH - B - A
    NJ - E -E
    NM - C - A
    NY - D - E
    NC - C - E
    ND - B - E
    OH - C - A
    OK - C - A
    OR - C - B
    PA - B - B
    RI - D - E
    SC - C - A
    SD - B - A
    TN - D - B
    TX - D - A
    UT - C - A
    VT - A - B
    VA - B - D
    WA - C - E
    WV - C - A
    WI - E - E
    WY - C - A

    If you think these requirements are too strict, check how many As and Bs there are. Some states do manage to score well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  2. The-Fly

    The-Fly Member

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    something your list overlooks, is how friendly the ccw laws are in regards to no carry zones. Some state's carry laws are so restrictive that a permit there is almost worthless (NC, KS, GA come to mind). Other states, while maybe a bit pricey, have excellent carry laws and almost zero no carry zones (CO, UT, MT, WY).

    I'd much rather live in a state thats a bit pricey for the permit, but lets you carry damn near anywhere, then a cheap state that has so many restrictions that you might as well leave it in the car or gun safe.
     
  3. News Shooter

    News Shooter Member

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    I always kick myself for sticking up for this miserable state, but MA is a MAY issue state.
     
  4. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Whoops, you're right. Forgot about that. I'll probably revise the list later, when I feel like doing more research. I'm too used to living in PA. You can carry in bars, churches, even courthouses and schools in some jurisdictions, here.

    ---------

    Yes, but how many people do you know with a CCW, who are not police officers, police detectives, very rich and influential private detectives, judges, politicians, celebrities, etc.? I was under the impression that MA is only "may-issue" inasmuch as NYC, HI, and MD are. I also gave an E to NJ for that reason. Technically may-issue, effectively no-issue, at least for the peasantry.

    Jury's still out on RI and DE. Need to do more research.
     
  5. kungfuhippie

    kungfuhippie Member

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    I'd like to point out that Ma, NJ, WI, Il, HI, and MD all get worse grades than CA and RI, NY, MO, KS, IA, and DE all tie CA
    So why must we only bash CA?
    CA has very CCW friendly laws, too bad it is a may issue state.
     
  6. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    You've got Alaska on there twice and no Arkansas
     
  7. News Shooter

    News Shooter Member

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    Trust me, there are plenty of regular CCW's in MA. If you live in Boston it helps to have clout, but the rest of the state is semi-normal. They just make it hard to get is all.
     
  8. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Those darn two-letter abbreviations. Fixed. At least I didn't screw up the Ms. There are way too many states that begin with M. Think we could sell Massachusetts to Canada, and Maryland to England, or something like that?

    -------------

    Okay then, didn't know. Don't live there, and have no intention of ever moving there! I'll just bump MA up to a D.

    How about NJ, anyone want to speak up for Joisey? I live in SW PA, so I don't know. More familiar with OH and WV.
     
  9. MrPeter

    MrPeter Member

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    I didn't know Montana was that bad? I need to do more research before deciding where I want to move. VT is looking better and better.
     
  10. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Montana isn't too bad. Keep in mind that only two states managed to score an A in the CCW department. Montana I have down as $12.50/yr for the initial permit, $6.25/yr for renewals. Don't know how many years the permit is good for, probably 4 or 5. For NFA, Montana bans large-bore destructive devices (primarily detatchable magazine-fed semi-automatic shotguns), and explosive destructive devices (grenades, rocket launchers, etc.)

    Also keep in mind that a "C" means "average." And average in the US of A is pretty darn good compared to the rest of the world. I'd have no reservations about living in a C state, as long as I can get a good job, the cost of living is tolerable, and other, non-RKBA political requirements are met.
     
  11. Dope

    Dope Member

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    Hmph. I could've sworn MA did not restrict machine guns beyond normal NFA measures. I know people in the state who own them. I'm assuming by "restricted" you mean "you can't own them, period". If my assumption is incorrect, please correct me.

    MA is surprisingly good about CCWs. Everyone I know who has applied has gotten one without any fanfare. It is $100 for 6 years. Plus, we have some of the least restrictive CCW rules as far as where you can carry. It's pretty much just schools and federal buildings. Not that that changes your rating any, because it's still a "may issue" state.

    Dope
     
  12. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    So why did Colorado get a B on NFA goodies?
     
  13. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    You're also wrong on Maryland. Full auto and suppressors are indeed legal here, as long as you're willing to jump through the ATF hoops like everyone else.

    We also have a fair number of CCW holders - granted it's like pulling teeth to get one, you still can.

    I'd revise the list a bit more, if I were you. :)
     
  14. damien

    damien Member

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    Because this grading scale doesn't tell the whole story. CA has a .50 cal ban, a magazine capacity limit, an "assault weapons" ban, a one-handgun a month limit, a training requirement, a long waiting period, a gun "safety" requirement that causes a lot of manufacturers not to sell there, and now this microstamping BS.

    http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=CA

    In addition, about 90% of the state, by population, lives in effectively no-carry counties.

    I would rather be in MA, WI, or IL, than CA. NJ, MD, and HI are the only states that really compare to CA in terms of anti-gun BS.

    I live in Illinois, and the no-carry crap sucks, but otherwise it ain't all that bad. We have no "assault weapons" ban, no .50 cal ban, no purchase limits, a 3-day max waiting period, no training requirement, no magazine limits, no gun "safety" tests by the state.

    In Illinois, gun stores also hand you the spent casing so many gun manufacturers now package with the gun instead of sending it to the state crime lab.

    We also have a great selection of gun stores that keep prices reasonable in the Northern Illinois area because we have a population of 9.5 million people in a relatively small area.

    California blows goats.
     
  15. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    Nebraska is $100 for the initial permit. We also have no preemption and some lousy no-carry rules.

    I'd also change "E" to "F".
     
  16. Crunker1337

    Crunker1337 Member

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    NJ gets two Es - big surprise.
     
  17. RioShooter

    RioShooter Member

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    I appreciate your effort to clarify the disparity between states, but in your system CA and TX both score a D on CCW. For those two states to score the same does not reflect reality. There's more to CCW than cost.

    For example, my Texas CHL allows me to carry in most of the other states, EXCEPT CA.

    Thanks again for all of your effort, but TX and CA are two different worlds and should not be considered to be in the same class with each other.
     
  18. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    I live in Illinois too.

    He was grading CCW, and since normal law abiding citizens are not permitted to do so in Illinois, we fail the grade.
     
  19. damien

    damien Member

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    I wasn't responding to the OP. I was responding to the quote by kungfuhippie and I made that completely obvious by quoting him at the top of my post.

    I agree with the OP's assessment of carry/NFA laws in IL. I don't agree with kungfuhippie's implication that CA is about as gun friendly as IL. That is not true.
     
  20. Harvster

    Harvster Member

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    CCW is too broad a category for one rating. As others have pointed out, besides cost, prohibited areas of carry, preemption, etc, are different everywhere. CCW needs to be broken up into more categories, such as Obtaining a permit, places open to carry, maybe even carry in cars etc.
     
  21. JoeG52

    JoeG52 Member

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    PA rates a D for CCW because of the cost.



    License fee is $46.00. Check or money order only. Make Checks payable to “Sheriff of Chester County”.
     
  22. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Any form of restriction whatsoever. Massachusetts requires a state-issued license for machine gun ownership, and other NFA weapons are limited to short-barreled rifles and large-bore destructive devices only.

    ---------------

    A state-issued permit is required for explosive destructive devices. I was really tempted to not count regulation of EDDs for the NFA section, but, just because I personally don't have any interest in them, and they're nearly impossible to legally buy, doesn't mean that regulation of them is fine and dandy.

    ---------------

    Everything I've heard suggests that Maryland CCWs are only possible to get if you can provide documentation of an actual stalker, or are a private detective, or are extremely rich, or something like that.

    Also, Maryland requires registration of all machine guns, and completely bans explosive destructive devices, thus it gets an E.

    ---------------

    That may be your opinion, but personally, I personally refuse to live in either CA or TX. $140 in fees, fingerprinting, massive background checks, and exorbitant training fees may be reasonable to you, but they aren't to me.

    Plus, as has been mentioned, CA's CCW laws are actually not that bad. The main problem is that they're may-issue. But if you live in a rural area, that's not a problem either. Outside of the major cities, CA CCWs are quite easy to get.

    ----------------

    It's $25 in the vast majority of counties, including the one I live in, according to http://www.pafoa.org. They hiked the price this year, up from $19. That's still only $5 per year. And even if you have to pay $46 for some bizarre reason, that's only $9.20 per year; still low enough to be a B.
     
  23. FieroCDSP

    FieroCDSP Member

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    I don't think we need a new system. The Brady system works just fine. You just have to ask yourself which side of the system you want to be on. If you don't like guns, an A or B rating is perfect for you. If you're a rational being, the lower the score the better. I've been wishing we could get Ohio down to an F.
     
  24. Dope

    Dope Member

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    Having never visited the Brady site before, I decided to check it out. I too was confused by their grading system. I sent them this email to help them out:

    Hopefully they'll fix this odd error on their site.

    Dope
     
  25. Gunnerpalace

    Gunnerpalace Member

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    We can own full-auto here in MI.
     
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